History Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread VII

As long as we are talking about the French Empire, a question that's always bothered me for a while:
What were the French doing in Mexico? I know they were supporting the Mexican government but why were the French there in the first place?
 
:yup: Lots of that in international politics. Thanks for the explanation.

On Alsace and Lorraine, what were the ethnic makeups of the people there at the time? Were they more German or more French?
In general, Alsace was mostly populated by German-speakers. Most of Lorraine remained in French control after the war, but even though the part that the Germans took, around Metz, had most of the German-speakers in Lorraine, there were still probably more French-speakers than German-speakers there.
Also, I read that part of the war was so one sided because the Germans had much better arms than the French. But doesn't seem like that could be the whole of it. Why was the outcome so one sided?
Okay, so this is kind of one of my Things, but I understand that I can be pretty freakin' wordy sometimes. So I'll spoiler the full explanation and leave the tl;dr outside it.

Spoiler :
The Germans didn't really have better arms than the French, at least to begin with.

When the war started, the armies of the united German states fought against the French imperial army. The standard Prussian infantry shoulder arm at that time was the model 1842 Dreyse needle gun, the first widely available breech-loading rifle in history. In the wars of the 1860s, it had so badly outclassed the muzzle-loaders used by the Danish and Austrians that one could reasonably describe the needle gun of 1866 as a "war-winning weapon". But by 1870, the French had their own breech-loading rifle, the model 1866 chassepot, which outclassed the needle gun in effective range and accuracy. Since most of the German troops were needle-gun-armed Prussians, this gave French infantry a distinct advantage. On the other hand, the Bavarian army employed the natively manufactured model 1869 Werder rifle, since it was politically impossible for good southern Bavarians to use a Prussian weapon. The Werder was roughly as good as the chassepot.

Furthermore, the French had the use of a secret wonder-weapon, the mitrailleuse, an early form of machine gun. Secrecy and poor doctrine initially inhibited their use - they were initially placed alongside the French artillery because of their carriage, but they didn't have the range to fight from an artillery overwatch position - but within a few weeks, the French artillerists, who were usually able to count to ten without removing their socks, had figured them out and were siting them in deadly defensive positions.

The chassepot and mitrailleuse combined did devastating damage to the German forces. In 1864 and 1866, the Prussians were often able to stand on the defensive while the Danes and Austrians assumed the role of obliging enemy by charging into the teeth of deadly needle gun fire. In 1870, it was the Germans who usually assumed the tactical offensive, partially for operational reasons, but also because if they remained at range, the French would be able to pick them off while the limited range of their own weapons would prevent them from responding in kind. The battles of the first month of the war - August and early September - saw a horrifying amount of casualties among the German forces that can be attributed in part to superior French technology.

If the Germans did possess a technical advantage it was in artillery. The entire Prussian artillery service had been refitted with brand-new Krupp breech-loading steel rifled guns, which were generally superior to the muzzle-loading bronze guns the French used. But the advantage wasn't that significant, and the breech-loaders came with the defects of any other relatively new technology.

German artillery was clearly superior to the French throughout the war, and proved to be their one trump card in those early battles. But although the Germans did possess a technical advantage in artillery, the majority of the advantage was actually due to the artillery's organization and tactics. German gunner doctrine was vastly superior; instead of placing guns in an immobile reserve to support a main offensive that never came (like the French), the Germans pushed as many guns as they could into the fight as early as possible and kept them there. Organic corps artillery allowed each German corps to be a relatively independent organization and saved overly aggressive German commanders on more than one occasion, like at Mars-la-Tour, when Konstantin von Alvensleben tried to fight the entire French Army of the Rhine with just his III Corps and managed to hold out until reinforcements arrived through a combination of sheer ballsy boldness and a well-placed and -managed gun line.

If you're looking for a single explanation of German success and French lack thereof, it has to be found at the top. On the French side, Napoléon was officially in charge of the army, in emulation of his uncle. But unlike his uncle, Napoléon III was not a warlord and in fact possessed almost no military aptitude at all. This would not have been a problem if his subordinates were skilled and had a clear command structure, but they weren't and didn't. His two army commanders, Bazaine and MacMahon, were decent enough fighting generals who had essentially no capacity to administrate large formations of men and equipment. They were personally brave individuals who completely failed at every point to actually manage their armies in battle or on the march. In every single battle, Bazaine's Army of the Rhine in particular fought as individual corps, not as a unified whole, and despite the tenacity of French soldiers and the skill of individual corps and division commanders, they were defeated as individual corps. Operationally, the French had no plan; despite completing mobilization before the Prussians did, they failed to seize their advantage with an aggressive march into Germany, and instead occupied a few border towns and sat down to await developments. When the German offensive began, both commanders did little more than organize a shambling fighting retreat.

On the German side, higher command was inestimably superior. King Wilhelm was a veteran of the wars against Napoléon I and had been a professional soldier almost all his life. His chief of staff, Helmuth von Moltke, is widely regarded to be one of the finest general officers in history, the father of modern staff systems, and the architect of every one of Prussia's great victories. The Prussian army commanders were a mixed bag (one of them, Karl von Steinmetz, was an unmitigated, insubordinate disaster), but unlike Napoléon, Moltke managed to ride herd over them reasonably well. Other good military leaders included Edwin von Manteuffel, the Alvensleben brothers, Eduard von Fransecky, Albrecht Kronprinz von Sachsen, and the commander of the Prussian Guard's artillery, Kraft Karl August von Hohenlohe-Ingelfingen.

Time and again, French imperial forces won local defensive successes but were encircled due to poor coordination and command, or were simply withdrawn from battle for no good reason. After suffering early defeats in frontier fighting, Bazaine withdrew his Army of the Rhine toward the fortress of Metz, and MacMahon pulled his own army back to Châlons, ensuring that the numerically superior Germans could fall on one army, then the next, and defeat them in detail. Bazaine's soldiers bought him time at Vionville and Mars-la-Tour, but the French failed to coordinate against the numerically inferior Germans, allowing Moltke to rush more men to the sound of the guns and overwhelm the French as the day ended.

A few days later, at Gravelotte-St. Privat, the French infantry made a valiant stand against Prussian assaults on their fortifications, shattering charge after charge. The Prussian Guard was slaughtered when it tried a head-down rush over open ground at St. Privat in a disaster equal to Cold Harbor or Pickett's Charge, and on the southern flank in the Mance ravine the French broke most of two entire corps so badly that the King rode into the throngs of retreating soldiers and personally started swearing at them and whacking them with the flat of his sword to get them to go back to the fight. But by the end of the evening, however, the Saxons had worked their way around the French flank and forced the French to retreat. Bazaine spent the whole day rushing from crisis to crisis, not directing the reserves or issuing orders. The Imperial Guard stood idly by, instead of completing the Germans' rout...and at the end of the battle, it failed to stave off the retreat as well. Bazaine pulled back again and went to the fortress of Metz, which the Germans besieged with part of their army while they took the rest to defeat MacMahon.

Again, MacMahon's march was so ill-conceived and mismanaged that the Germans were able to fully encircle his army by maneuver before most of the fighting started. The night before the Battle of Sedan, one of the French corps commanders, Auguste Ducrot, took a look at the ring of German campfires stretching around the army, and commented, "We're in a chamber pot, and we're about to be s**t on." That's basically what happened. Sedan was a disaster at every level for the French, and Napoléon himself was captured.

If the war had been fought in the sixteenth century instead of the nineteenth, the capture of the Emperor would've meant the end of the war. Instead, the French government hijacked popular demonstrations in Paris to declare itself a republic and, once it became clear that the Germans would not end the war without some sort of territorial and financial indemnity, continue the fighting. The Republic, unlike the Empire, had a plan. It had men who were good organizers, and it had the numerical advantage that the Germans had possessed early in the war. The Germans had to fight at the end of long, vulnerable supply lines, subject to the depredations of terrorists and French military raiders, and most of the German armies were participating in the siege of Paris rather than fighting the republic's armies in the field. The fundamental problem, however, was that the French were trying to create a national army ex nihilo in months from men who, for the most part, had never fought before. MacMahon's and Bazaine's regulars had been forced to surrender; few veterans remained to leaven the ranks. Fundamentally, the French armies were simply too inexperienced to win. The Republic had generals both skilled and unskilled alike; all were defeated in their turn. They could not defeat the German armies in a time frame short enough to allow the relief of Paris before it capitulated to the besiegers.

The short version is this: the French generally had better infantry arms than the Germans, although their artillery was weaker. German forces usually suffered horrendous casualties, but they possessed a numerical advantage and so could absorb the high rate of attrition. The real weakness of the French armies was that their commanders were feckless and stupid. They had essentially no plan and were outmaneuvered at every stage of the fighting. The united Germans were able to destroy the armies of imperial France in the space of a single month due to better organization and better operational leadership.
 
As long as we are talking about the French Empire, a question that's always bothered me for a while:
What were the French doing in Mexico? I know they were supporting the Mexican government but why were the French there in the first place?
Officially, they were there to collect on outstanding loans. The Liberales had fought a fairly costly civil war, the Reform War, a few years before, and upon his election in 1861 Benito Juárez wanted to get finances back in order, so he suspended all outstanding state loan payments. The various Mexican governments of the 1850s had all borrowed heavily from abroad, with the main creditors being France, the UK, and Spain. Those parties agreed to seek recompense from Mexico a few months after Juárez suspended loan payments. The British and Spanish seem to mostly have thought that they would blockade the country and occupy a few ports and customs-houses.

The French, on the other hand, clearly settled on invasion. The entire project may have been conceived with regime change in mind from the start, with the outstanding loans as little more than a convenient excuse. It's certainly rather suggestive that the conflict began mere months after the outbreak of the American Civil War, especially when the Americans had openly backed Juárez in the Reform War, even going so far as to fight Conservador marines and imprison them in Louisiana. Emperor Napoléon did this sort of thing all the time: look for a wedge, then broaden it into some sort of major world-shaking scheme. It combined two of the Second Empire's geopolitical themes: imperialism at the expense of non-European people (Napoléon had more imperial expansion schemes running in the 1850s and 1860s than even the British, from Africa to the Far East and the Pacific), and seizing on a moment of temporary difficulty to permanently weaken a rival. Mexico and the Confederacy would be another version of what he had done with Italy in 1859-60.

Even the British and Spanish were unwilling to commit to a major land war to aggrandize the French Empire, and they withdrew from the consortium in 1862. The Palmerston government was also trying to finesse the American Civil War at the time, and the Trent incident during the occupation of Veracruz made things a little hot to handle. France continued the push, occupied Mexico City in 1863, and set up Maximilian's imperial puppet government there. France did manage to con some of the old Conservador politicians into backing Maximilian, but aside from the clericals, France's main allies in Mexico were about 2,000 Hungarian and Belgian voluntary auxiliaries. Maximilian also ended up being a dubious choice for monarch, as he tried to make a play for Mexican liberal sentiment but failed to do anything other than piss off the clerical and conservative support on which his regime relied. Naturally, this unpromising matrix failed to defeat Juárez's forces in the north of the country, especially after the Americans won their own Civil War and left part of their victorious armies on the Rio Grande as a very unsubtle hint to the French to Mexicanize the war. Napoléon began to withdraw his forces in 1866, and the Liberales reoccupied Mexico City the following year, crushing the imperial government.
 
Thanks for that.
Any particular reason the French artillery was underwhelming? Was it due to any sort of policy that favored one branch of the military over the other or just a whole bunch of little things that added up?
 
Thanks for that.
Any particular reason the French artillery was underwhelming? Was it due to any sort of policy that favored one branch of the military over the other or just a whole bunch of little things that added up?
Mostly tactics, but partially the way the French Army worked institutionally.

The tactical problem was that French doctrine, in both infantry and artillery, was based around holding a large reserve for the commander to commit at the decisive point of a battle. This was a Napoleonic principle, and certainly the concept of a reserve has a great deal of merit. The fundamental problem was that it is often extremely difficult to discern the proper moment to commit one's reserves. Napoléon, of course, was a genius at it, but that's because he was, like, the God of War. His nephew, along with Bazaine and MacMahon, were not Gods of War or anything close. Often, their battles were not the sort that would lead anybody toward a decisive effort, not that any of them were in a position to notice if they did. During the battles, large artillery parks remained out of action, so that corps and divisional guns had to fight out battles on their own. By contrast, most Prussian artillery was centralized at the corps and army level, and was committed early. The Prussians still kept large numbers of their guns together, but they remained in action for basically the entire battle.

The institutional problem was that the French Army as it developed after Waterloo was a force of long-service professionals. The core soldier was an experienced infantryman able to determine the course of a battle on the sharp end. France's generals attempted to effectively institutionalize the qualities of Napoléon's Old Guard grognards. They fostered an army culture based on the sort of soldier who might be cavalier with military discipline and who might not know how to read a map or push paper, but who could outshoot and outfight any other man in the world. Naturally, in such a system, the sorts of men who go into the artillery or the staff are men apart from the rest of their peers, separated by cultural prejudice from the 'real men' with rifles and bayonets. Infantry and cavalry got the best recruits; support services and artillery did not. It's hard to quantify the sort of impact that that would have on the service, save with the contrast between the feeble efforts made by French gunners in August 1870 with the scientific gunnery that Hohenlohe's artillerymen exhibited in bombardment after bombardment.
 
Can you recommend a good book on the war?
 
David Wetzel's two-part series A Duel of Giants and A Duel of Nations amply cover the diplomacy immediately prior to and during the conflict.

Dennis Showalter's The Wars of German Unification is a model of readability that combines scholarly insight and entertainment in equal measure, written by the best living historian of warfare in modern Germany.

Michael Howard's The Franco-Prussian War is an older work with a somewhat jaundiced eye, but it's absolutely crucial for any historiographical discussion (since it's a foundation text of the New Military History, as is Showalter's Railroads and Rifles) and was written by one of the most eloquent historians of the century.

Geoff Wawro's The Franco-Prussian War offers a decidedly different perspective on the war than any of the above, but is still valuable and contains excellent source use.

Arden Bucholz's Moltke and the German Wars touches on the conflict in a fairly specific context but is no less valuable for that fact.

If you are truly masochistic, locating a copy of the full German General Staff history of the war would be worth it for the sheer volume of minutiae involved. The caveat is, of course, that it is in German. For a more readable contemporary version, the Prussian author Theodor Fontane was a correspondent during the war and produced the four-volume work Der Krieg gegen Frankreich, literary pop-history that does not suffer much in the telling.

If you only had the option of reading one, I would read Showalter's book. Howard's is probably the easiest to find, if you scour used-book sellers.
 
Danke!
 
In general, Alsace was mostly populated by German-speakers. Most of Lorraine remained in French control after the war, but even though the part that the Germans took, around Metz, had most of the German-speakers in Lorraine, there were still probably more French-speakers than German-speakers there.

Okay, so this is kind of one of my Things, but I understand that I can be pretty freakin' wordy sometimes. So I'll spoiler the full explanation and leave the tl;dr outside it.

Spoiler :
The Germans didn't really have better arms than the French, at least to begin with.

When the war started, the armies of the united German states fought against the French imperial army. The standard Prussian infantry shoulder arm at that time was the model 1842 Dreyse needle gun, the first widely available breech-loading rifle in history. In the wars of the 1860s, it had so badly outclassed the muzzle-loaders used by the Danish and Austrians that one could reasonably describe the needle gun of 1866 as a "war-winning weapon". But by 1870, the French had their own breech-loading rifle, the model 1866 chassepot, which outclassed the needle gun in effective range and accuracy. Since most of the German troops were needle-gun-armed Prussians, this gave French infantry a distinct advantage. On the other hand, the Bavarian army employed the natively manufactured model 1869 Werder rifle, since it was politically impossible for good southern Bavarians to use a Prussian weapon. The Werder was roughly as good as the chassepot.

Furthermore, the French had the use of a secret wonder-weapon, the mitrailleuse, an early form of machine gun. Secrecy and poor doctrine initially inhibited their use - they were initially placed alongside the French artillery because of their carriage, but they didn't have the range to fight from an artillery overwatch position - but within a few weeks, the French artillerists, who were usually able to count to ten without removing their socks, had figured them out and were siting them in deadly defensive positions.

The chassepot and mitrailleuse combined did devastating damage to the German forces. In 1864 and 1866, the Prussians were often able to stand on the defensive while the Danes and Austrians assumed the role of obliging enemy by charging into the teeth of deadly needle gun fire. In 1870, it was the Germans who usually assumed the tactical offensive, partially for operational reasons, but also because if they remained at range, the French would be able to pick them off while the limited range of their own weapons would prevent them from responding in kind. The battles of the first month of the war - August and early September - saw a horrifying amount of casualties among the German forces that can be attributed in part to superior French technology.

If the Germans did possess a technical advantage it was in artillery. The entire Prussian artillery service had been refitted with brand-new Krupp breech-loading steel rifled guns, which were generally superior to the muzzle-loading bronze guns the French used. But the advantage wasn't that significant, and the breech-loaders came with the defects of any other relatively new technology.

German artillery was clearly superior to the French throughout the war, and proved to be their one trump card in those early battles. But although the Germans did possess a technical advantage in artillery, the majority of the advantage was actually due to the artillery's organization and tactics. German gunner doctrine was vastly superior; instead of placing guns in an immobile reserve to support a main offensive that never came (like the French), the Germans pushed as many guns as they could into the fight as early as possible and kept them there. Organic corps artillery allowed each German corps to be a relatively independent organization and saved overly aggressive German commanders on more than one occasion, like at Mars-la-Tour, when Konstantin von Alvensleben tried to fight the entire French Army of the Rhine with just his III Corps and managed to hold out until reinforcements arrived through a combination of sheer ballsy boldness and a well-placed and -managed gun line.

If you're looking for a single explanation of German success and French lack thereof, it has to be found at the top. On the French side, Napoléon was officially in charge of the army, in emulation of his uncle. But unlike his uncle, Napoléon III was not a warlord and in fact possessed almost no military aptitude at all. This would not have been a problem if his subordinates were skilled and had a clear command structure, but they weren't and didn't. His two army commanders, Bazaine and MacMahon, were decent enough fighting generals who had essentially no capacity to administrate large formations of men and equipment. They were personally brave individuals who completely failed at every point to actually manage their armies in battle or on the march. In every single battle, Bazaine's Army of the Rhine in particular fought as individual corps, not as a unified whole, and despite the tenacity of French soldiers and the skill of individual corps and division commanders, they were defeated as individual corps. Operationally, the French had no plan; despite completing mobilization before the Prussians did, they failed to seize their advantage with an aggressive march into Germany, and instead occupied a few border towns and sat down to await developments. When the German offensive began, both commanders did little more than organize a shambling fighting retreat.

On the German side, higher command was inestimably superior. King Wilhelm was a veteran of the wars against Napoléon I and had been a professional soldier almost all his life. His chief of staff, Helmuth von Moltke, is widely regarded to be one of the finest general officers in history, the father of modern staff systems, and the architect of every one of Prussia's great victories. The Prussian army commanders were a mixed bag (one of them, Karl von Steinmetz, was an unmitigated, insubordinate disaster), but unlike Napoléon, Moltke managed to ride herd over them reasonably well. Other good military leaders included Edwin von Manteuffel, the Alvensleben brothers, Eduard von Fransecky, Albrecht Kronprinz von Sachsen, and the commander of the Prussian Guard's artillery, Kraft Karl August von Hohenlohe-Ingelfingen.

Time and again, French imperial forces won local defensive successes but were encircled due to poor coordination and command, or were simply withdrawn from battle for no good reason. After suffering early defeats in frontier fighting, Bazaine withdrew his Army of the Rhine toward the fortress of Metz, and MacMahon pulled his own army back to Châlons, ensuring that the numerically superior Germans could fall on one army, then the next, and defeat them in detail. Bazaine's soldiers bought him time at Vionville and Mars-la-Tour, but the French failed to coordinate against the numerically inferior Germans, allowing Moltke to rush more men to the sound of the guns and overwhelm the French as the day ended.

A few days later, at Gravelotte-St. Privat, the French infantry made a valiant stand against Prussian assaults on their fortifications, shattering charge after charge. The Prussian Guard was slaughtered when it tried a head-down rush over open ground at St. Privat in a disaster equal to Cold Harbor or Pickett's Charge, and on the southern flank in the Mance ravine the French broke most of two entire corps so badly that the King rode into the throngs of retreating soldiers and personally started swearing at them and whacking them with the flat of his sword to get them to go back to the fight. But by the end of the evening, however, the Saxons had worked their way around the French flank and forced the French to retreat. Bazaine spent the whole day rushing from crisis to crisis, not directing the reserves or issuing orders. The Imperial Guard stood idly by, instead of completing the Germans' rout...and at the end of the battle, it failed to stave off the retreat as well. Bazaine pulled back again and went to the fortress of Metz, which the Germans besieged with part of their army while they took the rest to defeat MacMahon.

Again, MacMahon's march was so ill-conceived and mismanaged that the Germans were able to fully encircle his army by maneuver before most of the fighting started. The night before the Battle of Sedan, one of the French corps commanders, Auguste Ducrot, took a look at the ring of German campfires stretching around the army, and commented, "We're in a chamber pot, and we're about to be s**t on." That's basically what happened. Sedan was a disaster at every level for the French, and Napoléon himself was captured.

If the war had been fought in the sixteenth century instead of the nineteenth, the capture of the Emperor would've meant the end of the war. Instead, the French government hijacked popular demonstrations in Paris to declare itself a republic and, once it became clear that the Germans would not end the war without some sort of territorial and financial indemnity, continue the fighting. The Republic, unlike the Empire, had a plan. It had men who were good organizers, and it had the numerical advantage that the Germans had possessed early in the war. The Germans had to fight at the end of long, vulnerable supply lines, subject to the depredations of terrorists and French military raiders, and most of the German armies were participating in the siege of Paris rather than fighting the republic's armies in the field. The fundamental problem, however, was that the French were trying to create a national army ex nihilo in months from men who, for the most part, had never fought before. MacMahon's and Bazaine's regulars had been forced to surrender; few veterans remained to leaven the ranks. Fundamentally, the French armies were simply too inexperienced to win. The Republic had generals both skilled and unskilled alike; all were defeated in their turn. They could not defeat the German armies in a time frame short enough to allow the relief of Paris before it capitulated to the besiegers.

The short version is this: the French generally had better infantry arms than the Germans, although their artillery was weaker. German forces usually suffered horrendous casualties, but they possessed a numerical advantage and so could absorb the high rate of attrition. The real weakness of the French armies was that their commanders were feckless and stupid. They had essentially no plan and were outmaneuvered at every stage of the fighting. The united Germans were able to destroy the armies of imperial France in the space of a single month due to better organization and better operational leadership.

This settles it for me: Dachs is really three historians collaborating from a basement. There's no way anyone below the age of thirty could produce this for the sake of a forum argument.
 
Or, perhaps, to go into *full conspiracy mode*, he had it already pre-written for something else he needed? Considering that the WWI and the events that lead to it is Dachs's specialty (afaik), he probably has to use this a lot.
 
This settles it for me: Dachs is really three historians collaborating from a basement. There's no way anyone below the age of thirty could produce this for the sake of a forum argument.

There's also no way a boy of fifteen would memorise the Periodic Table in order all the way up to Lanthanum (#57) for no good reason.
 
This settles it for me: Dachs is really three historians collaborating from a basement. There's no way anyone below the age of thirty could produce this for the sake of a forum argument.
I haven't been writing much about history lately. It's relaxing.

And it's not like I came up with it all on my own or anything. A lot of it follows the basic explanation laid down in Showalter, and the one in Wetzel. Not that that really changes much; the chronology of the war is basically undisputed. The only thing in dispute has been the interpretation.
Or, perhaps, to go into *full conspiracy mode*, he had it already pre-written for something else he needed? Considering that the WWI and the events that lead to it is Dachs's specialty (afaik), he probably has to use this a lot.
No. But I'm pretty sure I did write something quite similar for another such history thread here several years ago. Lemme check...

Yes, I did.
 
So I was, at least, partially right. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, so better keep a copy.
 
I sometimes feel that we should collate all the big posts on academic matters from CFC: between us, we must have enough material to put together a medium-sized book, or at least a half-decent website.

Interesting little discussion on artillery: I admit to not having much high-level training on artillery, but as far as I've ever been on the sharp end of doctrine it has been something called in by commanders as low as platoon level, rather than simply being directed by huge formations like armies. I suspect part of this is due to the scale on which military operations happen these days - a company today might take up the physical space occupied by a regiment or brigade in the 1870s - but it's interesting to see totally different ideas about how broadly the same sort of weapon should be employed.
 
I sometimes feel that we should collate all the big posts on academic matters from CFC: between us, we must have enough material to put together a medium-sized book, or at least a half-decent website.

Interesting little discussion on artillery: I admit to not having much high-level training on artillery, but as far as I've ever been on the sharp end of doctrine it has been something called in by commanders as low as platoon level, rather than simply being directed by huge formations like armies. I suspect part of this is due to the scale on which military operations happen these days - a company today might take up the physical space occupied by a regiment or brigade in the 1870s - but it's interesting to see totally different ideas about how broadly the same sort of weapon should be employed.


Platoon commanders having radios probably also factors.
 
Very true, but communication back in the day was done by rider - if a battalion commander can give orders to his company commanders by a man on a horse, he can also call for fire by the same method. Armies are really quite big - we're talking hundreds of thousands of men spread over a tremendously large area. It's quite an unwieldy level on which to be directing fire to soften up a fortified/entrenched enemy position, which is the primary use of such a weapon today.
 
Some of it is no doubt organizational. It was done a certain way because that's what the leaders knew and wanted. But some would be what's feasible. It may be possible to give orders by runner or rider or flags or trumpets or some other signal. But that doesn't mean it's easy or necessarily always effective.
 
Does anyone have any solid recommendations or knowledge of the era of the first four Caliphs (Ie Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali)?

So far the narrative I have constructed from my own research and knowledge goes something along the lines of:

The Prophet never explicitly wrote out his plans for who would succeed him as the leader of the Muslim Umma when he died. However, he did verbally name Ali as mawla of the Muslims, which has a shade of meanings from Master to friend. Sunni historians and sources interpret this to mean that the Prophet was naming him a special friend of the Muslims, while Shia historians believe he meant that Ali was his successor, the temporal and spiritual leader of the Muslims. Context seems to favor the Shia version, but I could be missing something.

Anyways, no matter what the Prophet intended, when he died there was a power vacuum. The Muslims present at the scene and in the city gathered in an emergency meeting to decide who would be Caliph. Initially, there was talk of choosing someone from the Ansar (the Muslims who initially lived in Medina. At this time they were powerful within the Islamic community) as the political leader of the Islamic state, a temporary arrangement until something more permanent could be arranged. Abu Bakr managed to masterfully shoot down that suggestion, and gained the support of the Ansar. His ascension to Caliph wasn't uncontested though. Many Arab tribes seceded from the Islamic state, mainly by refusing to pay Zakat (taxes). Abu Bakr claimed this was proof of heresy and apostasy, and sent an army to take the taxes by force (let's ignore the fact that this went against the precedent the prophet set) . Also, there were a some people claiming to be prophets popping up who gathered supporters. Their goals were largely political. They either wanted to share power with the government in Medina, or establish their own independent territory.
There's some debate whether the Ridda wars as they are called, were actually religious movements, or political movements with religious trappings. I sway towards the political side.
Anyways my point is that as I understand it, Abu Bakr came to prminence to Caliph due to the support of the Ansar, and used force to subdue those who would not accept his authority. Then Umar claimed pretty much the same power base after Abu Bakr, the support of the same elite. Uthman placed his own family in power as governors of territories, and they solidified their grip and proved to be Uthman's power base. Finally, after Uthman's assassination, Ali took power, but the legality of the succession was challenged, and it was believed that Ali helped off Uthman. This gave all factions that wanted control of the Caliphate the moral and legal justification they needed. And so Ali fought a civil war, but in the end, Muawiyya won (A relative of Uthman and governor of Syria, one of the richest and most powerful provinces in the Caliphate). This lead to the establishment of the pre Islamic Quraiysh elite as the ruling faction of the Caliphate.

So that's the narrative I've built. Can anyone dispute that, add to it, or point to sources that might challenge and/ or refine my understanding?
 
This settles it for me: Dachs is really three historians collaborating from a basement. There's no way anyone below the age of thirty could produce this for the sake of a forum argument.
If I thought people would listen I could put together something similar on the Congo Crisis, the secession of Katanga, and the CAF. Everyone has their specialties they are really good at.


Anyhow, a question probably worth its own thread but whatever:
During the 18th and early 19th century, how good was the Royal Navy compared to its peers? If it was measurably superior to its peers was it due to any specific thing the RN was doing or just the fact the UK could basically let the land forces rot and spend gobs of money on the navy?
 
If I thought people would listen I could put together something similar on the Congo Crisis, the secession of Katanga, and the CAF. Everyone has their specialties they are really good at.


Anyhow, a question probably worth its own thread but whatever:
During the 18th and early 19th century, how good was the Royal Navy compared to its peers? If it was measurably superior to its peers was it due to any specific thing the RN was doing or just the fact the UK could basically let the land forces rot and spend gobs of money on the navy?

http://www.spanishsuccession.nl/english_navy.html

If you're interested, this website has a thorough explanation of what made the English navy so great during the War of Spanish Sucession.

The short version is an extensive ship building program undertaken in the 1690's that expanded the size of the English navy. Not only in number of ships, but in quality of those ships. The newer ships built during this time had more firepower than their previous counterparts. I think the change was an increase of ten percent for the number of guns.
 
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