HOT1 - PTW Monarch (Koreans)

[meldor]

Using sappers is a very strong technique, especially once rails come on line. You can use cav to capture a city, rail to and under your units, move defneders in and hurt units back to the nearest barracks. Combined with combet settlers it call roll an opposing civ in a few turns.

 

[hotrod0823]

4000 BC (0): After realizing I screwed up and had accelerated production on (Hear Hommer voice in the the back ground) I restart the game with normal production and all the same settings. This is a new starting point. I move settler to the hills and will found Seoul next turn.

3950 BC (1): Found Seoul on the hill, it is on a river and on the coast. Start with a warrior. Begin researching Pottery at 90%.

3900 BC (2):

3850 BC (3):

3800 BC (4):

3750 BC (5):

3700 BC (6): Warrior completes start a barracks as a place holder for granary.

3650 BC (7): Warrior is heading NW away from the coastline.

3600 BC (8):

3550 BC (9):

3500 BC (10):

3450 BC (11): Culture expands.

3400 BC (12):

3350 BC (13):

3300 BC (14): Contact Mongols to the West. They have Pottery and Warrior code but won't offer any reasonable trades. Pottery is due next turn.

3250 BC (15): Learn Pottery start on Masonry. Change to Seoul to Granary.

3200 BC (16): More warrior movement.

3150 BC (17):

3100 BC (18):

3050 BC (19): See the outlines of a new Mongol city to the West.

3000 BC (20): Mongol warrior is heading toward Seoul, warrior heading back to the unattended capital. Due to grow to 3 in 3 turns, the warrior can serve as MP duty. Granary will finish in 2 turns.

Not much happened. Decided to research Masonry as a counter to the Mongols research.

Here is the Save:


http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_3000_BC.zip

Rowain: (up)
UU: - ON DECK
Mystery13
Meldor
Borealis
Hotrod

 

[hotrod0823]

Originally posted by Charis in the RBD5 thread

- No city may be attacked on any round until artillery support has fired on the
town (catapult, cannon, artillery, radar artillery, cruise missile or any bombardment)
- The only exception is that Paratroopers do not require artillery support.
- Paratroopers are suggested to be made and used, and should pillage key supply
lines and special resources as a key part of their mission.
- Cities need artillery garrisons. For a captured city, one artillery unit must
remain as garrison. For a built city, an artillery unit should be produced or
imported (AFTER that city builds/gets an infantry defender)
- For cannon, artillery, radar art, a Musketman is required in the same square
to operate the equipment. (This goes for city garrison as well)
- Note that a Marine attacking a city after naval bombardment is another
option opened up nicely.

RBD5 - January 2002

Now that was the early days . I haven't read the thread and don't intent to yet but any suggestions are welcome .

Any comments on Charis rules??

Hotrod

 

[Unique Unit]

So, in all non-amphibious attacks, naval bombardment would not meet our conditions?

And, before catapults, we are not allowed to attack cities?

The world shall tremble before the mysterious dragon-fire of our Hwach'a!
(Or not.)

 

[Charis]

The early days?!?! Now I feel old!
I had a real blast with that game - I had never used bombardment before that and learned its fearsome power!

If I'm allowed to comment on those rules...

- I wanted to see more paratrooper and marine action, but the game was in its last turns before they had an impact. Still... paratroopers landing in mountains behind enemy lines worked better than expected.
- We quickly dropped the city garrison rule. It got changed early-mid game to "must maintain one cat/cannon/artillery unit in the field for every town you have, or build more to reach this number immediately". We just didn't have the economy to BOTH have units sitting around unused at home and enough to romp around the map on offense
- The Musketeer requirement to fire the guns was a roleplaying element that let us have fun with the near useless French UU. Our stacks of doom were so powerful that Meers (as we called them) could take about any city

Your game's simpler rule of "must bombard a city somehow before attacking with troops" will be sufficient, I think.

If you guys have not seen this link, it's a MUST for fans of the Hwatch'a -- a short video clip of them in action! Quite a sight to see, I must say. Those puppies SHOULD get lethal bombardment The seungja looks cool too

Discussed at...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58092
Actual video link... :rocket:
http://chunghondang.com/movie/singijeon.mpg

Picture of Hwatch'a :

Charis

 

[Zed-F]

Any bombardment was acceptable, as I recall. We did use catapults in our first war, which didn't occur until around the beginning of the middle ages. Also, the rules did change a bit over the course of the game, so I would suggest reading the whole thread. For instance, we found that having artillery required as garrison was pretty much silly -- we wound up tying up a whole bunch of gpt on units that basically couldn't be used, thus curtailing our ability to build an offensive force. We ultimately decided to change the rule to be "you must own at least as many artillery pieces as you have cities" but they didn't have to be garrisoned one per city. We did, however, keep the requirement that at least 1 Musketeer was needed in a stack to operate any ground-based artillery more advanced than catapults, as well as the requirement to bombard cities before attacking. I think we also kept a Musketeer around as ground crew for bombarding fighters and bombers.

 

[hotrod0823]

I intended to have any bombardment unit work, I forgot things like ironclads, destroyers, battleships, missles or nukes and whatever else has a ranged attack. Personnally I think including them would be fine. It will help having "non-wheeled" units as part of the acceptable bombing teams.

Any bombing attack from any bombardment unit must occur before ground attacks.

Hotrod

@ UU: The specifics of the RBD5 game are not entirely applicable I just found that that game was played similiarly almost a year ago. I was unaware of that game when Mystery made the suggestion for a variant to stress the use of the Hwach'a. The additional requirements set forth by Charis in their game were specific to the French and that particular set of rules. I didn't intend that rule set to be the new set here.

 

[Mystery13]

Nice work Hotrod! That is exactly the game I was referring to, I just hadn't spent the time to go back and find it. That game was one of the many at the time that caused me to jump into the SG's.

I also agree with your all-encompassing rule as we definitely do not have the French variant at work here. Bombardment first, then capture. I really want to see the Korean artillery in action!

 

[Unique Unit]

After the great hall had been framed and roofed, the tribe gathered at the ocean's edge. A feast had been prepared, to celebrate the founding of the village and offer sacrifices to the gods in thanks. Behind them, against the backdrop of the dark forests, the lodges they had built looked small and scattered.
Their young leader, Wang Kon, rose to speak.
Suddenly, a bright streak appeared in the night sky -- like a piece of fire, shooting across the firmament. The people murmered worriedly. Even Wang Kon seemed shaken, looking over to the circle of tribal eldars. One of them, a wizened old woman, rose.
"Do not be afraid," she said soothingly. "This is a great omen, from the dragons who rule the heavens. Your people will be mighty, Wang Kon. They shall rule the earth by raining fire and death on their enemies."


Hotrod:
I'm taking the liberty of attaching a partial screenshot, from your save:

 

[hotrod0823]

Thanks Unique Unit. Hope the hasn't started yet!

Hotrod

 

[Unique Unit]

We might want to think about building an early wonder-city soon. Normally I avoid basing ancient era strategy on wonders. But for the Koreans, landing certain wonders (either by building them or capturing them) is necessary for triggering a Golden Age. Either Colossus (commercial) or the Great Library (scientific) or the Great Lighthouse (commercial) might be worthwhile (though perhaps only one of these, unless we want a despotic GA).
Just a thought. I'm open to different approaches.

 

[hotrod0823]

We may learn the power of the internet!!! I was thinking that colossus was an option when I moved to hill on the coast. I wouldn't stress that right off though, we may not have that much room to expand and the added requirements of using catapults will deter or at least slow any type of early war. I think that expansion is the key for now, hence the early granary. Lets see how it plays out.

Hotrod

 

[Rowain deWolf]

20 turns till 2150BC

3000BC (0): Nothing to change

2950BC : Granary finished Settler orderedWarrior scouts north of Seoul and discovers Gems ; Lux to 10% to prevent riots.

2670BC (7): Meet India Ghandi has Warrior Code and Ceremonial we have nothing.

2630BC (8): Settler finished order Warrior; Lux to 0%;

2590BC (9): We get a skilled Warrior from a GH and see a lot of Dyes. Sent Warrior back to Seoul and switch Seoul to Settler.

2470BC (12): the Indian Warrior sleeps on the spot I want to Settle

2390BC (14): P'yongyang founded Warrior ordered; Science to 70% earns us 2 gpt Lux to 10%;

IT: Masonry learned start Mathe on minScience; Settler finished in Seoul next one ordered;

2350 (15): Masonry + Alphabet to Temujin for Wheel + CB + 6 gold; Masonry to Ghandi for Warrior Code and 1 gold; I decide to sent the Settler to the Dyes. Although this is far away if we get a monopol on them we will have big trading possibilities;

2270BC (17) A GH is deserted but next to it is a Barb camp;

2230BC (18): our Warrior misses some Artillery and therefore looses vs the Barb

2150 BC (20): End of my turns with an overview:

and The Game

Please settle our third city inmidst the Dyes the nextsettler can then fill the gap and our first ring.

Good Luck Unique

Rowain

 

[Unique Unit]

Got it.

And just to weed out my own weed: on second thought, I think Great Lighthouse is expansionist, not commercial.

 

[hotrod0823]

Hotrod
Rowain
Unique Unit <---- Up
Mystery13 (On Deck)
Meldor
Borealis

 

[Borealis]

UU, the Great Lighthouse can trigger for both expansionist and commercial civs, according to the civilopedia. The following wonders can combine in various ways to get us a GA by the end of the Middle Ages:

Great Lighthouse and Great Library
Colossus and GL
Magellan's Voyage and GL
Magellan's Voyage and Newton's University
Smith's Trading Company and GL/NU

I rarely, if ever, get the Colossus on Monarch difficulty, as one of the industrious civs, usually Persia if they're around, builds it first. The GL is a chance if we get Literature first and could actually use it, as the PTW AI still neglects to research the tech at this level. (I assume/hope Emperor/Deity AI is smarter about this). Literature is also a good choice even if we go warmongering, as libraries are cheap, give culture, and boost our tech rate. Depending on how bloodthirsty we are, maybe we can pick it up as soon as we have the tech for a good attacking unit to accompany our catapults.

Just wondering... according to the F11 screen, who's our competition? Gandhi and Ghenghis have been mentioned, but there should be at least two more visible there.

 

[Unique Unit]

Preturn: diplomatic rounds: India has nothing to offer, and no gold. Mongols have nothing either. Relations are polite.
I make one change, waking the warrior fortified in Seoul. We don’t need him for mp, and there’s a lot of scouting to be done.
Of course, barbs may come calling. Weed before I even run my first turn? We’ll see. Warrior-scout is sent south, to map out the bottom of our peninsula.

Warrior-scout finds more bonus grasslands to the south. We can definitely squeeze a city in here, creating later overlap with Seoul, but also drawing in three bonus grasslands. It’s close by, lush and productive land.
Worker finishes mine, starts roading tile. Settler heads north, to the dyes.

Mongol scout forces north-bound settler to divert diagonally.

2030 BC: Seoul trains settler, set to warrior (more scouting, while the city replenishes sufficiently for another settler).
New settler sent south, towards the tip of our peninsula.

2070 BC: P'yongyang trains warrior, and grows to 2 pop. I start training a worker (and shift tiles to 1 grass, 1 forest). Warrior heads northeast, toward dyes and new city site.

1990 BC: Diplo check divulges that Mongols have discovered iron working. We can’t afford it – and the Indians have nothing they could trade for it anyway.

1950 BC: Northern settler founds Wonsan, among the dyes, on a jungle/dye tile. It will take awhile to grow, but at least has a forest/dye tile to work until more fertile land can be hacked out.
Doh! Barbs appear as the fog around Wonsan lifts. We’re going to get a visit. And I have no warriors at hand, and nothing I can spend our money on.

1910 BC: Wonsan is ransacked; we lose 23 gold.

1870 BC: Pusan founded, on the southern tip of the peninsula. Starts training a warrior. (What I really want down here at this point is a worker, but the city wouldn’t grow in time.)

1880 BC: P'yong worker emerges, set to roading plains tile to connect with our n/s artery. (I should have laid this road along the river, to be improving bonus river tiles. Now I see the weed .)

1790 BC: Seoul trains warrior, starts on settler. Iron Working is still expensive; Indians are still poor (and without IW); no new contacts yet.

1725 BC: Whoops, I think I played an extra turn (assuming we were supposed to shift to 10 turn rounds, at this point). Sorry.


Suggestions: I settled our third city among the dyes, as advised. My feeling is that we should plant our next city along the floodplains at the foot of the gem mountains, to the northwest of P’yongyang.

We need to explore and (hopefully) make contacts beyond the Indians and Mongols. Push a warrior or two through the cultural-free corridors, before they close off.

I left a warrior on the road between Seoul and P’yong, where he would be within striking distance of either city in case barbs spring up down here. We might want to send him off scouting, and risk the barbs?

If iron working does come down from 2d civ price, it might be a good early buy. We have a fair amount of mountains nearby (another reason to get a city up on the floodplains).

 

[Unique Unit]

Here's the game:

 

[Unique Unit]

Here's our little corner of the world:

 

[Unique Unit]

Borealis: To tell the truth, I never check the F11 screen in the early going of a game. I know it's there, and I guess checking up is not considered an exploit. But to me, it always felt kind of, well, exploit-ative.
(I don't mind if you check and tell us all, though.)
Nice to have the relevent wonder list here -- thanks!