Rowain deWolf
King
I agree with UU about the Mongol-war and with not trading our contacts.
Rowain
Rowain
HOT1 - PTW Monarch (Koreans)
- Thread starter hotrod0823
- Start date
hotrod0823
Deity
If we can take the Mongols now is the time before they get Chivalry and their UU. If the War is brought to them we need to make peace with China and try to pry Monarchy from them or hopefully the GL.
Hotrod
Hotrod
Note that the Mongols do need iron for their UU. Depending on how many iron sources they have, and how far they are within their borders, we might be able to pull off a 'paralyzing strike' at first, and follow up later. The main problem will be keeping Japan and China out of it.
Unique Unit
Chieftain
As far as I recall (can't open the game up now), the Mongols did have an iron source, which a century or so ago they hadn't yet hooked up, but probably have by now. They also have horses within reach, but not yet encompassed within cultural borders (again, if I'm remembering right).
Both resources, btw, are near our own borders, and would be easily pillaged.
Both resources, btw, are near our own borders, and would be easily pillaged.
Mystery13
Prince
I'll have my turns finished tonight
Mystery13
Prince
Preturn I change nothing, though I'm not too keen on 1 spt courthouses. Looking over our map, I think we should build an FP on former Indian lands and move our Captital in toward Mongolian lands. Then, courthouses may make more sense. Right now, we're building courthouses in an area that will have an FP close by. Could be a lot of wasted turns. I think the combo of an Ulsan palace and a Bombay FP would work very well.
Actually, Ulsan is building a courthouse now. It
would finish an FP in 23 turns. Then we could use a leader to rush the palace in Bombay (yes, I'm switching places because the palace would take 89 turns in Ulsan while the FP is 172 turns away in Bombay).
Advantage, we get an FP in only 23 turns, and it is far enough away from Seoul to be effective.
Disadvantage, former Indian lands still far away from either site.
I'd like a few responses back before I take on this plan.
Here is a picture of our lands. An FP in Ulsan would bring Mongolia
into play (when we get it
). Bombay may be too close for a new
palace, but we can decide on that when we get a leader. Any thoughts?
Actually, Ulsan is building a courthouse now. It
would finish an FP in 23 turns. Then we could use a leader to rush the palace in Bombay (yes, I'm switching places because the palace would take 89 turns in Ulsan while the FP is 172 turns away in Bombay).
Advantage, we get an FP in only 23 turns, and it is far enough away from Seoul to be effective.
Disadvantage, former Indian lands still far away from either site.
I'd like a few responses back before I take on this plan.
Here is a picture of our lands. An FP in Ulsan would bring Mongolia
into play (when we get it
). Bombay may be too close for a newpalace, but we can decide on that when we get a leader. Any thoughts?
Unique Unit
Chieftain
Intriguing plan, Mystery. I like the idea of an Ulsan FP. What about a palace in Madras, rather than Bombay? Since we're commercial, that string of cities between the two axes should be quite productive, and moving the palace radius north draws in some quite fertile territory to the northwest.
hotrod0823
Deity
Ulsan will work! We should see an immediate benift even without moving the palace. I would only be concerned about moving the palace by hand to Madras or Bombay. Also, Seoul and the cities around Seoul will most likely need a courthouse to help corruption. I don't have a feel for how much will be lost to corruption once the palace is moved. In addition, we will be losing our wonderplace holder for what could be, without a leader of course, a long time to come. We still need another wonder to get our GA. I think structuring our wonder building to get Smith's, or any others that may come our way.
Hotrod
Hotrod
Rowain deWolf
King
I agree with Ulsan and a leader rushed palace in Bombay(Madras)
Rowain
Rowain
Mystery13
Prince
Ok, I'll switch Ulsan to FP and have it back tonight. Later, we can use a leader to move the palace. We can build a courthouse in Seoul and other current core cities just before we swap the palace site and they should remain very productive.
Mystery13
Prince
Ok, consensus says to swap Ulsan to the FP. Due to the upcoming, close proximity FP, I change Pyongsong off courthouse to library. I change Hyangsan from courthouse to marketplace for the same reason.
IT France gets pissy with our unit in their territory. Fine. Also,
damn, Namp'o riots on me before my first turn. I thought I checked everyone, but I guess I missed this one.
(1)460AD Lots of movement. First, I'll take a Chinese city and see
if the price for Monarchy comes down. Second, I'll start sending
other military units toward Mongolia in preparation for WAR.
IT England wants to swap territory maps. I see no problem with this. Wow! They are huge.
(2)470AD I trade territory maps with France. As a throw in to the
trade, we get contact with the Persians for 100 gold. We then trade territory maps with Persia. From what I can see, France, England and Persia can only get to our continent via suicide galley run.
IT We finally get Monarchy from the Great Library! I'll go for
a change immediately. We have 6 cities riot (I don't know how to
use "scroll ahead", but we only have four turns of anarchy left.
(3)480AD Not much happens, though we are ready to take the Chinese city of Paoting in the next turn or two.
(4)490AD We don't take Paoting yet...next turn.
(5)500AD We almost lose an elite Swordsman (from a mountain), fighting a vet archer...but we don't and instead we get a great leader. Our Army destroys Paoting. We immediately go for a peace deal (and we get their world map). We have a settler in the area, so we'll resettle up here and then decide what to do with the leader. As a final bonus, our vet horse goes elite removing a barb threat from the area.
(6)510AD I decide to build the Hanging Gardens in Madras. Here are my reasons. First, it's way too early to move the palace here, as the core cities must keep producing at high levels for the war in Mongolia. Second, we are already having happiness problems, even with three lux's, and Hanging Gardens gives us an extra content citizen. Third, it's not obsolete until Steam Power.
IT We come out of anarchy. I didn't know that we had Republic
available as well. It didn't come on my turns, so I guess someone
decided not to switch to it. I think it's the best, so I'll try
it first. Hanging Gardens will help a lot and we can still easily
war with Mongolia under Republic.
(7)520AD As I'd hoped, 0% lux works as only Namp'o must keep an entertainer, and it will have a Marketplace in 3 to solve that problem. I rush a settler in Manp'o, as there is room for two cities where Paoting used to be and I don't want the Chinese to beat us there.
(8)530AD Actually, there is room for 3 cities up here, so I rush
another settler out of Madras.
(9)540AD moving settlers to claim the last space to the North.
IT Paegam riots on me...I don't understand this, as the city screen
shows 2 happy faces, 1 content face and 2 unhappy faces, along with a scientist. Every city I've ever mm'd in this game won't riot if
happy greater than or equal to unhappy???
(10)550AD Ok, three settlers are one square from their intended
locations. I have a horse on one site. I have a sword on another
site. And the third settler should go to either the empty grassland
square to the Northwest, or the hill directly West. I like the grass
square better, but I don't control the outcome.
The FP is in 11 turns. Our current core cities should start building
courthouses in preparation for the palace switch. I'm thinking that we'll pop another leader in the Mongolian war and we'll want to switch then.
We don't have much military left...in fact, our defenses are quite
pathetic...but what we do have is heading South. I have not switched science back on, as we had already invested 30 turns into Engineering, and, of course, we have the Great Library to cover tech for us still.
Finally, I just checked and communications between our "friends" has not yet been sold. Hopefully, we can keep this to ourselves until the GL expires and use the knowledge for tech. Also, we are not currently researching at all due to our scientist in Paegam being reassigned to entertainment. Have fun!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_550_ad.zip
IT France gets pissy with our unit in their territory. Fine. Also,
damn, Namp'o riots on me before my first turn. I thought I checked everyone, but I guess I missed this one.
(1)460AD Lots of movement. First, I'll take a Chinese city and see
if the price for Monarchy comes down. Second, I'll start sending
other military units toward Mongolia in preparation for WAR.
IT England wants to swap territory maps. I see no problem with this. Wow! They are huge.
(2)470AD I trade territory maps with France. As a throw in to the
trade, we get contact with the Persians for 100 gold. We then trade territory maps with Persia. From what I can see, France, England and Persia can only get to our continent via suicide galley run.
IT We finally get Monarchy from the Great Library! I'll go for
a change immediately. We have 6 cities riot (I don't know how to
use "scroll ahead", but we only have four turns of anarchy left.
(3)480AD Not much happens, though we are ready to take the Chinese city of Paoting in the next turn or two.
(4)490AD We don't take Paoting yet...next turn.
(5)500AD We almost lose an elite Swordsman (from a mountain), fighting a vet archer...but we don't and instead we get a great leader. Our Army destroys Paoting. We immediately go for a peace deal (and we get their world map). We have a settler in the area, so we'll resettle up here and then decide what to do with the leader. As a final bonus, our vet horse goes elite removing a barb threat from the area.
(6)510AD I decide to build the Hanging Gardens in Madras. Here are my reasons. First, it's way too early to move the palace here, as the core cities must keep producing at high levels for the war in Mongolia. Second, we are already having happiness problems, even with three lux's, and Hanging Gardens gives us an extra content citizen. Third, it's not obsolete until Steam Power.
IT We come out of anarchy. I didn't know that we had Republic
available as well. It didn't come on my turns, so I guess someone
decided not to switch to it. I think it's the best, so I'll try
it first. Hanging Gardens will help a lot and we can still easily
war with Mongolia under Republic.
(7)520AD As I'd hoped, 0% lux works as only Namp'o must keep an entertainer, and it will have a Marketplace in 3 to solve that problem. I rush a settler in Manp'o, as there is room for two cities where Paoting used to be and I don't want the Chinese to beat us there.
(8)530AD Actually, there is room for 3 cities up here, so I rush
another settler out of Madras.
(9)540AD moving settlers to claim the last space to the North.
IT Paegam riots on me...I don't understand this, as the city screen
shows 2 happy faces, 1 content face and 2 unhappy faces, along with a scientist. Every city I've ever mm'd in this game won't riot if
happy greater than or equal to unhappy???
(10)550AD Ok, three settlers are one square from their intended
locations. I have a horse on one site. I have a sword on another
site. And the third settler should go to either the empty grassland
square to the Northwest, or the hill directly West. I like the grass
square better, but I don't control the outcome.
The FP is in 11 turns. Our current core cities should start building
courthouses in preparation for the palace switch. I'm thinking that we'll pop another leader in the Mongolian war and we'll want to switch then.
We don't have much military left...in fact, our defenses are quite
pathetic...but what we do have is heading South. I have not switched science back on, as we had already invested 30 turns into Engineering, and, of course, we have the Great Library to cover tech for us still.
Finally, I just checked and communications between our "friends" has not yet been sold. Hopefully, we can keep this to ourselves until the GL expires and use the knowledge for tech. Also, we are not currently researching at all due to our scientist in Paegam being reassigned to entertainment. Have fun!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_550_ad.zip
Rowain deWolf
King
some comments:
Happyness: The switch from Scientist to Entertainer is unnecessarry; If you have as much happy as unhappy faces the city stays content. The unhappiness is checkedd first so perhaps when the game checked for riots Paegam had more unhappyness but after all things were calculated it has enough happyness to stay content. So please switch it back and let our research towards the glorious Hwacha continue.
Scroll Ahead: When the first city riots you select 'Zoom to city' and in the city-screen you have two arrows left and right from the city-name. With these Arrows you can scroll through all Cities and adjust happiness.
Contacts: The AI never uses Suicide-galeys. So Persia with the Great Lighthouse is the only civ that can (perhaps) reach our continent and sell communications.
Good Luck Meldor
Rowain
Happyness: The switch from Scientist to Entertainer is unnecessarry; If you have as much happy as unhappy faces the city stays content. The unhappiness is checkedd first so perhaps when the game checked for riots Paegam had more unhappyness but after all things were calculated it has enough happyness to stay content. So please switch it back and let our research towards the glorious Hwacha continue.
Scroll Ahead: When the first city riots you select 'Zoom to city' and in the city-screen you have two arrows left and right from the city-name. With these Arrows you can scroll through all Cities and adjust happiness.
Contacts: The AI never uses Suicide-galeys. So Persia with the Great Lighthouse is the only civ that can (perhaps) reach our continent and sell communications.
Good Luck Meldor
Rowain
hotrod0823
Deity
Good Round Mystery 
Hotrod
Rowain
Unique Unit
Mystery
Meldor <----- Up Now
Borealis (on Deck)
Hotrod
Rowain
Unique Unit
Mystery
Meldor <----- Up Now
Borealis (on Deck)
meldor
Deity
I see it, but it will be Sunday before I can play it. If Borealis can/wants to jump in there before that she is more than welcome to do so.
hotrod0823
Deity
If Borealis can grab and play before then great but check back to see if she got it. If she hasn't posted her turns before Sunday lets go with the regular rotation.
Hotrod
Hotrod
Mystery13
Prince
Rowain, thanks for the scroll ahead tip...are we allowed to use it in our game?
Also, your happiness explanation is exactly my knowledge as well. However, the city DID riot under those conditions. That is why I was so frustrated.
From what I can see, I don't believe the Lighthouse will get them across. I cannot confirm that, though, since there is still a bit of fog out there.
Also, your happiness explanation is exactly my knowledge as well. However, the city DID riot under those conditions. That is why I was so frustrated.
From what I can see, I don't believe the Lighthouse will get them across. I cannot confirm that, though, since there is still a bit of fog out there.
Unique Unit
Chieftain
I had the same thought re the Persians: I don't think the Lighthouse gives them enough extra movement to establish contact. (Although their might be an island in the fog there.) Let's maintain isolation as long as possible. (Eventually one of the civs on our continent might declare war if we refuse to trade contact. Worth a war, in many cases.)
hotrod0823
Deity
Mystery: on the scroll ahead, IIRC is it an exploit if you use it to USE tiles in 2 or more overlapping cities to allow the "bonus" grass from one city to be used to get an improvement wonder exectera then zoom to that city change the tiles that are worked then "scroll ahead" to use that same tile in an overlapping city to get a bonus in a second city that hasn't been checked for production yet. To manage happiness I think it is something entirely different. If you zoom to Seoul after the civil disorder pop up you know you will have other cities in riot mode then managing there happiness with enteratainers, taxman, and scientist IMHO are not exploits just saving you the pain of seeing every single city pop up.
Hotrod
Hotrod
Rowain deWolf
King
q Mystery: Here is the rule-set according Scroll-ahead from the Realms beyond Civ - Epics which are something like the standard rules for many Succession games (and for my soloplay too)
INTERFACE EXPLOITS
"Free Wealth": If you set a city to wealth, you get the benefit of the cash it generates before the game goes through the city production rotation. Thus, if you zoom a city earlier in the queue, and "scroll ahead" to the wealth city, you can get double production on a given turn by assigning a project to the city after the wealth has already been tabulated, as the wealth benefit registers before the city's actual production turn comes up. All use of scroll ahead to get "free wealth" is prohibited.
"Shared Tile": You can use "scroll ahead" after a particular city has registered use of a tile in the production queue between turns, to reach a city that shares that tile but has not taken its turn yet, to "work a tile" on the same turn by more than one city. Any deliberate use of scroll ahead to share tiles is prohibited.
"Instant Military": You can use "scroll ahead" after the AI's movement phase has completed, but before the turn ends, during the between phase, which opens the possibility of being able to react to the AI move in an exploitive way, allowing you to play underdefended and rush Instant Military any time you need it. Two actions are still allowed. Action One: Scrolling ahead to repair tile arrangements screwed up by the invasion of military units (to override the pathetic auto-governor's poor choices) is still allowed. Action Two: scrolling ahead to make use of technology discovered on that turn is still allowed, regardless of what the AI's are doing. All other scroll ahead action in response to AI moves between turns is now prohibited.
"Free Healing": Normally, if a unit moves, it is not supposed to heal at the end of that turn. However, when the game is saved and loaded, the "has moved" flag is not maintained. It is redetermined from movement remaining. If a damaged unit can make it to a barracks city without using any movement -- via rails and "sailing port to port" -- and you save and then load the game, it will heal at the end of that turn. Saving and reloading to deliberately gain free healing is prohibited.
"The Big Picture": On any turn after discovering new tech, you can click "What's the Big Picture", and from there get to any of the operational menus with the Function keys. This opens all manner of between-turn access, even before you get into the production queue, with a number of loopholes and exploits opened up. ALL use of clicking "The Big Picture" between turns to gain deliberate access to menus is now prohibited. Any use of scroll ahead for legitimate purposes must come through zooming during the production cycle.
As far as I know it is allowed to use scroll ahead for Happiness-problems.
As mentioned this are the rules for RB-games so an Succession-game Leader can allow what ever he wants.
According Happyness Your undestanding is correct but as I said I think the City had more Unhappiness(for whatever reason) during the checking phase. When I switched the Entertainer to Scientist and hit nextturn the city stayed in order.
Rowain
INTERFACE EXPLOITS
"Free Wealth": If you set a city to wealth, you get the benefit of the cash it generates before the game goes through the city production rotation. Thus, if you zoom a city earlier in the queue, and "scroll ahead" to the wealth city, you can get double production on a given turn by assigning a project to the city after the wealth has already been tabulated, as the wealth benefit registers before the city's actual production turn comes up. All use of scroll ahead to get "free wealth" is prohibited.
"Shared Tile": You can use "scroll ahead" after a particular city has registered use of a tile in the production queue between turns, to reach a city that shares that tile but has not taken its turn yet, to "work a tile" on the same turn by more than one city. Any deliberate use of scroll ahead to share tiles is prohibited.
"Instant Military": You can use "scroll ahead" after the AI's movement phase has completed, but before the turn ends, during the between phase, which opens the possibility of being able to react to the AI move in an exploitive way, allowing you to play underdefended and rush Instant Military any time you need it. Two actions are still allowed. Action One: Scrolling ahead to repair tile arrangements screwed up by the invasion of military units (to override the pathetic auto-governor's poor choices) is still allowed. Action Two: scrolling ahead to make use of technology discovered on that turn is still allowed, regardless of what the AI's are doing. All other scroll ahead action in response to AI moves between turns is now prohibited.
"Free Healing": Normally, if a unit moves, it is not supposed to heal at the end of that turn. However, when the game is saved and loaded, the "has moved" flag is not maintained. It is redetermined from movement remaining. If a damaged unit can make it to a barracks city without using any movement -- via rails and "sailing port to port" -- and you save and then load the game, it will heal at the end of that turn. Saving and reloading to deliberately gain free healing is prohibited.
"The Big Picture": On any turn after discovering new tech, you can click "What's the Big Picture", and from there get to any of the operational menus with the Function keys. This opens all manner of between-turn access, even before you get into the production queue, with a number of loopholes and exploits opened up. ALL use of clicking "The Big Picture" between turns to gain deliberate access to menus is now prohibited. Any use of scroll ahead for legitimate purposes must come through zooming during the production cycle.
As far as I know it is allowed to use scroll ahead for Happiness-problems.
As mentioned this are the rules for RB-games so an Succession-game Leader can allow what ever he wants.
According Happyness Your undestanding is correct but as I said I think the City had more Unhappiness(for whatever reason) during the checking phase. When I switched the Entertainer to Scientist and hit nextturn the city stayed in order.
Rowain
Mystery13
Prince
Thanks Rowain. I guess something must have happened that I missed. I made sure the scientist was set properly when I changed to Republic. At that time, the city screen showed 2 happy, 1 content, 2 unhappy and 1 scientist. I let it go. The next turn it rioted. I zoomed on the city to see why, and it was still in the same form. Therefore, I assumed the city would continue to riot if not changed. Nothing happened between turns, no lux deals or anything else that could affect happiness and the city obviously did not grow. It simply went into disorder and I still don't know why. If the city is ok now then I guess I'll forget about it.
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