How excited are you?

[Toni1]

I'd certainly love to see some metrics on "Amount of PC games purchased : Steam Hate" ratio around here. I do personally feel the people complaining are just not PC gamers. They play 1 or 2 games and that's it. So yeah, in that sense Steam seems like a nuisance to them to just play that single game.

Steam 'hater' here and here's my game collection (outdated I admit, haven't been updateing much during past few years). Note that these are all retail copies. I also own 76 games from GOG.com and over dozen from Gamersgate. I only like single player games (don't touch anything multiplayer related and buy games for their single player content) and only play cRPG's (not fan of Action "rpg"'s), strategy games (TBS for most part), economic simulators and space combat and trading simulators. By your defination I'm not a 'gamer' . Rather than bashing you for your elitist and misguided views I'll just proceed to ROLFLAO at your expense

 

[PieceOfMind]

I thought I made a fairly reasoned argument as to why someone who doesn't play a lot of games might see it as annoying. Not sure what you're getting at, we can't speculate anything about why people think a certain way? Interesting rule

Yeah, I'm confused too but I think we best not speculate about any correlations between people who don't want mandatory steam and number of games owned. Just for laughs I was going to suggest finding the correlation between people who like Steam and those who use the "ciV" abbreviation.

 

[tom2050]

Just for laughs I was going to suggest finding the correlation between people who like Steam and those who use the "ciV" abbreviation.

Start a poll!

I would make a bet that those who love Steam, also love CiV. And those who don't like certain portions of Steam, prefer an abbreviation not so confusing to noobs, but clear and concise.

 

[Dudemeister]

i dont get it, if you dont like steam you can just buy it on dvd?

 

[White Elk]

i dont get it, if you dont like steam you can just buy it on dvd?

I wish it were so! You must run Steam everytime you run the game. You start Steam first. Only then can you play the game. Steam doesn't work like other digital distributors and online validation services. Steam likes to scan our machines and send back information on our gaming habits, system specs and who knows what else. So steam has to run every single gosh darn time you play a game.

 

[3 EMS]

i dont get it, if you dont like steam you can just buy it on dvd?

What White Elk typed applies even if you just buy it on dvd.

 

[Dudemeister]

I wish it were so! You must run Steam everytime you run the game. You start Steam first. Only then can you play the game. Steam doesn't work like other digital distributors and online validation services. Steam likes to scan our machines and send back information on our gaming habits, system specs and who knows what else. So steam has to run every single gosh darn time you play a game.

I see. Damn, that's not good news.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Quite.

That said, I think White Elk is exaggerating. We don't know for sure how extensive the info is that steam collects.

 

[3 EMS]

White Elk wrote:

I wish it were so! You must run Steam everytime you run the game. You start Steam first. Only then can you play the game. Steam doesn't work like other digital distributors and online validation services. Steam likes to scan our machines and send back information on our gaming habits, system specs and who knows what else. So steam has to run every single gosh darn time you play a game.

My gaming habits and PC specs are none of Steam's business. That information belongs to me. That almost sounds like stealing or reverse piracy. If they want it they should have to hire a marketing firm like other companies. It seems pretty clever to get people to pay them to give them their info so that Steam can do its own marketing research for free.

 

[Dudemeister]

Will it be as moddable as the last installments, or will that be restricted too?

 

[3 EMS]

@ Dudemeister
I think that is still not clear. At least I'm not sure. Read through some of these Steam threads and you will see what I mean. Particularly the DLC ones. I think that is where the issue becomes cloudiest.

 

[PieceOfMind]

My gaming habits and PC specs are none of Steam's business. That information belongs to me. That almost sounds like stealing or reverse piracy. If they want it they should have to hire a marketing firm like other companies. It seems pretty clever to get people to pay them to give them their info so that Steam can do its own marketing research for free.

Yep, many modern businesses would love to have more data collected about their customers but most of the time it's just not possible or practical. With a digital distribution service, it is far easier because information can be collected automatically, not requiring the customer's time (or not much anyway). I'm not suggesting or agreeing that Steam "scans" your computer for stuff, but it does keep track of your time on games and probably other things related to the playing of games, and that alone is already valuable info being collected. Some clever public relations and convincing people a required program is there to enable you to play the game (we got by just fine when we only had to install the game!) have proven to be quite effective.

 

[Dudemeister]

Is it common now to require steam for new games? Havent bought one in ages...

 

[White Elk]

Quite.

That said, I think White Elk is exaggerating. We don't know for sure how extensive the info is that steam collects.

Steam itself says they collect hardware and driver info along with gaming stats. With that they can track hardware upgrade trends and other info I don't think they have any business to. And I heard it from Gabes own mouth (recent interview) that by monitoring users software, they might answer the question of why games on Macs crash less than games on PC's. I don't know what else they might want to monitor, now or in the future. They should pay, or rebate you for this info. But they shouldn't be poking around in your machines for any reason. I definitly want nothing of it. steam burned off all my excitement over Civ5... and it was a considerable level of excitement.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Is it common now to require steam for new games? Havent bought one in ages...

It's certainly common for games to be available on Steam. However anyone in competition with Valve (e.g. Stardock) in most cases will not be distributing their games at all on Steam. Games that require Steam generally do so because they use Steamworks. That is why civ5 will require steam - it is being developed with Steamworks integrated.
I'd expect most of, if not all, Valve's games to require Steam.

 

[tom2050]

White Elk wrote:


My gaming habits and PC specs are none of Steam's business. That information belongs to me. That almost sounds like stealing or reverse piracy. If they want it they should have to hire a marketing firm like other companies. It seems pretty clever to get people to pay them to give them their info so that Steam can do its own marketing research for free.

Through a bunch of digging fans of Civ have done here, we have found that Steam's goal is basically Data-Mining (consumer demographics along with gameplay habits) and to turn the game-industry into 'You don't own anything at all, we own everything' (which goes beyond them owning only intellectual rights). In other words, your game purchase is a 'rental', and they can decide when, if, how, and where you play your 'rental'. This is not exactly legal from what I understand. This lets them steal the game back from you IF they choose.

We don't know if they Data-Mine Customer Demographics currently (it states in their privacy policy specifics about what this is "aggregate data"). We have been informed they do Data-Mine Gaming Habits by other members here. I don't have a prob with Gaming Habits if I am playing online, Demographics are personal information to me, I have a problem with this (especially if it is a No Opt-in method). They have implied that Steam is 'Made' to do this stuff extensively.

--------------------

Games that should currently be supported more heavily than Mommy-state server type DRM method Games are ones like Blizzard is doing with upcoming Starcraft II, some of the things Stardock has done, etc.. (which don't intrude to restrict your legal rights, etc). Blizzard is going for 1 time internet activation to Battle.net, then no DRM at all ever again. I am not / was not for internet requirements of any form, but I think Blizzard at least 'Gets It'. Valve and 2K do not 'Get Anything' and are heading from what was good with Steam into a bad direction.

 

[Alki]

Through a bunch of digging fans of Civ have done here, we have found that Steam's goal is basically Data-Mining (consumer demographics along with gameplay habits) and to turn the game-industry into 'You don't own anything at all, we own everything' (which goes beyond them owning only intellectual rights). In other words, your game purchase is a 'rental', and they can decide when, if, how, and where you play your 'rental'. This is not exactly legal from what I understand. This lets them steal the game back from you IF they choose.

We don't know if they Data-Mine Customer Demographics currently (it states in their privacy policy specifics about what this is "aggregate data"). We have been informed they do Data-Mine Gaming Habits by other members here. I don't have a prob with Gaming Habits if I am playing online, Demographics are personal information to me, I have a problem with this (especially if it is a No Opt-in method). They have implied that Steam is 'Made' to do this stuff extensively.

--------------------

Games that should currently be supported more heavily than Mommy-state server type DRM method Games are ones like Blizzard is doing with upcoming Starcraft II, some of the things Stardock has done, etc.. (which don't intrude to restrict your legal rights, etc). Blizzard is going for 1 time internet activation to Battle.net, then no DRM at all ever again. I am not / was not for internet requirements of any form, but I think Blizzard at least 'Gets It'. Valve and 2K do not 'Get Anything' and are heading from what was good with Steam into a bad direction.

You don't buy a piece of software like you buy a pair of socks. You buy the license to run that programme. Games are programmes like your operating system, excel or word. I don't own windows, I have purchased the right to run one copy of that programme. This is the same for 99.9% of programmes 'purchased'. Unless you get a Computer programmer to write you a piece of software you don't own it.

Since I can remember I have always had to tick a box to say I will comply with the owner of the programme's wishes and agree to follow their rules.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Through a bunch of digging fans of Civ have done here, we have found that Steam's goal is basically Data-Mining (consumer demographics along with gameplay habits) and to turn the game-industry into 'You don't own anything at all, we own everything' (which goes beyond them owning only intellectual rights). In other words, your game purchase is a 'rental', and they can decide when, if, how, and where you play your 'rental'. This is not exactly legal from what I understand. This lets them steal the game back from you IF they choose.

Sorry, Tom, but that is not what "we" have found ("we" being "fans of Civ"). That is how some of "us" have chosen to characterize Steam's goal. An extremely vocal minority of "us", I might add.

I posted an interview with the the guys from Valve in which they discuss what you call "data-mining" (hardware, software, and driver data related to crashes to determine potential causes). Few people bothered to listen to it.

 

[Akka]

I thought I made a fairly reasoned argument as to why someone who doesn't play a lot of games might see it as annoying. Not sure what you're getting at, we can't speculate anything about why people think a certain way? Interesting rule

No. You used a biased and fanboyist "reasoning".

Liking/hating Steam has nothing to do with being a gamer - I'm certainly the very example of "a gamer", and I hate Steam with passion -, and is more related with principles, about if a person think she should have unlimited access to what she bought and how much she trusts corportation.

 

[ori]

Moderator Action: If anyone has a problem with a specific moderator action - they are welcome to contact the moderator in question via pm or email - Public Discussion of Moderator Action, however is strictly off limits in these forums.

That said: Please keep the discussion to topics that can actually be discussed - posting assumptions about other users' motives, especially framed in a manner designed to discredit/dismiss their posts is not something prone to civil arguments and I would hate to see this thread degenerate into mutual name calling.