How to get a job (or not)

[hobbsyoyo]

I believe front end developers work on the electronic systems that users directly interact with. When you open an app, what you are using is made and maintained by front end developers. There are other developers that focus on the supporting software which do the real 'work' of the app. So let's say you've got a banking app. The front end developers create the GUI (graphical user interface) and all of the code that makes that GUI talk to the bank's own internal software that facilitate transactions. If you tried to put the entirety of the bank's software on user's phones, it wouldn't run very well. So you break it into discrete software packages - some run in the background while others are directly interfacing with users. It's that latter part that the front end developers work on.

I think.

 

[GenMarshall]

...how liberal arts degrees fare in the workforce etc.

I can tell you first hand that they don’t fare well in the workforce and will actively advise against majoring in liberal arts and instead advise to persue a specialized degree or a trade that has little to no risk of being automated.

 

[rah]

Some do. I have a LAS degree and was quite successful. (but i worked in IT)

 

[caketastydelish]

I've made the decision to move out of my parents' house for my career.

I've said this before, but some may forget or haven't seen it the first time, so I will repeat:

I live in a small town with less than 30,000 people. No towns are even as large as this one within a 60-mile radius. I have three degrees (two Associates, one Bachelors). One of the Associates is applied in Computer Networking, and the Bachelors is Computer Information Systems with a minor in English.

I've only had three jobs so far (one of which I'm currently working), all of which are "high school jobs", or in other words, minimum wage/near minimum wage, with no experience or technical knowledge required.

I'm going to give my two-week resignation to one of these jobs tomorrow at work. After that is over I'll be going to a suburb in the DFW metroplex. I'll be able to live with my grandma who lives there, rent free until I have a job and some additional money saved up. I already have a car, so that's nice. No debt. I'm anticipating my first job will be something helpdeskish but I'm open to anything as long as isn't another high school job. I'm vastly overqualified (and too old) for high school jobs.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Congrats on the move out and good luck with the search. If we can help with that here, don't hesitate to let us know.

 

[caketastydelish]

What led the move is I was going to stay another year for an associates degree at my towns local junior college in cybersecurity. But some tech people I talked to told me since you already have two tech degrees (and one of them is even a bachelors) associates in cybersecurity will be borderline meaningless, whereas just getting your career started (which should have happened yesterday) would be worthwhile.

 

[rah]

Having hired many techs over my long career, I agree with them.

 

[The_J]

I cannot give an answer to this, but would like to point out that this will be horrible for your social life, and potentially for your work motivation too.

 

[Victoria]

Should I inquire up front about their willingness to entertain a remote-work employee or should I go through the interview process and then ask?

I have the luxury of both interviewing and I myself work 100% remote with no travel for the last 9 years.

If you ask up front it will very likely be to an HR paper pusher where the machine says no.
If they can see you are eminently suited (takes a skills interview) and there is a shortage then if decent they will listen.
Certainly I know many European countries like your own are quite flexible.
WFH seems to be on the decline ATM and our massive American company binned every WFH that was not well hidden or too expensive to retire.

 

[Victoria]

I already do it 20% of my time. I'm one of those weird people that work much better at home. I'm more focused. Don't know why

I work terribly from home but am naturally good at my job and have a great boss. He says if there is no work, do not do any. Sometimes I will go a whole week without doing more than checking mails. A good boss is worth a drop in salary.

I'm in the US.
That's kind of my thought - I don't want to be deceptive but at the same time I feel like I'd be shot down without a good reason just because of what a listing says rather than anything rational. So I'd rather get through an interview or two before saying anything.

I certainly would not consider it deceptive, more perceptive... certainly it would be seen that you are keen to try and get your foot in.

 

[civvver]

Some of us are ignorant of jobs in our tech world, so please, what is a front end developer? Is is web site work, general programming? Game development?

Moderator Action: Poster was a spam bot, deleted. leif

You work directly on user/end point applications vs back end which is servers and supporting software like middle ware, apis to those services etc. It doesn't have to involve GUI but it might. It doesn't have to be web site stuff but it might, though most web sites are not written by coders any more since most of it is done with css and editing software now so it's graphical design people and content managers.

When people say full stack developer they mean you can do the application work on the front end and the server software on the back end, plus the middle ware stuff.

And then there's firmware devs. Another totally different thing!

 

[rah]

When I was hiring, a request to WFH before hiring was a red flag (unless there were physical issues)
But once hired, if they showed commitment, after a few months, I never did turn down a request to work from home for a majority of the time. I did require once a week in the office for the team aspect of the group. There are obviously certain jobs that aren't suitable to working from home.

 

[really]

Unless working from home is flagged in the job spec I wouldn't lead with it.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I agree with really.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

CV's - why do they exist and does anyone in the US use them? I came across one once and my cubemate was very impressed until I pointed out that most of the 'jobs' listed were actually papers and projects he had in grad school. Some were relevant, most were not.

Second question - would it be appropriate for me to have a 2 page resume to cover all the years I was working in not-aerospace? I have a good resume that only focuses on aerospace stuff but twice I've been asked to 'explain the gap' between starting Community College and when I started getting internships. The truth is there is no gap, I worked various jobs as a restaurant manager and other random, lesser jobs in that time but they have mostly have no relevance. The only way I could include those jobs is if I made a second page and I really don't want to do that. I think the longest I spent at any of those jobs was a year so it would show me hopping around jobs all the time which is super common at minimum wage levels but a lot of people I work with never held non-aerospace jobs and might not understand why someone making $5.15 an hour would hop jobs so much. There were a couple of relevant ones when I worked in a physics lab or when I was a manager but I don't think anyone wants to read a 2 page resume where the second page is all about me as a dishwasher or cashier at Goodwill.

My worry is that I've been asked about that 'gap' a couple of times now and I worry there might be a chance people are passing on me because of that gap without ever getting to the interview to ask about it. I really don't want a 2 page resume at this point, I'm too new to aerospace.

 

[MaryKB]

I live in a small town with less than 30,000 people. No towns are even as large as this one within a 60-mile radius. I have three degrees (two Associates, one Bachelors). One of the Associates is applied in Computer Networking, and the Bachelors is Computer Information Systems with a minor in English.

Good for you! I really hope things work out for you, and you'll probably have a much easier time finding real work in a larger city. Your situation sounds so very similar to mine when I moved away from my parents in 2005 and went to live with my grandmother near Atlanta, I even had no debts and just my car too. I feel when you look back, you'll see this as one of the best things you've done for yourself.

I already do it 20% of my time. I'm one of those weird people that work much better at home. I'm more focused. Don't know why

I work better from my home office too, I think a lot has to do with some personality traits. I work better when I'm not supervised, and also people are less likely to bother me. And because of what kind of work I do, I can work better in spurts and rest in between, which is really helpful and lets me get more done. I get exhausted when I have to go in to my real office, and I don't get as many "useful" hours.

For your other question, I'm wondering, could you put something like "2005-2009: Various entry level positions," or something like that, to just have one line where you account for what you're doing but also let them know it's not really relevant? I don't know if that's something they'd like, I've never been in a position like yours, but maybe they just might want to see something?

I work terribly from home but am naturally good at my job and have a great boss. He says if there is no work, do not do any. Sometimes I will go a whole week without doing more than checking mails. A good boss is worth a drop in salary.

Your situation sounds so similar to mine! I've turned down some jobs that were offered to me because I'd have to go in to an office to work, I view that being worth quite a bit to me. And absolutely about having a good boss, that really makes a world of difference! My current boss is amazing .. I've also found having a woman for a boss is incredibly beneficial too, especially since she knows from her own personal experience what kinds of extra struggles I have to put up with, and she makes sure I get recognition for my accomplishments.

 

[MaryKB]

I also do best without supervision. The most stressed I've ever been was when one manager decided he was going to give me an hour-by-hour script for my work day and then started calling me every hour or so to change the script. Holy god I was so stressed I nearly walked out. People bothering me doesn't really bother me too much as it a necessary part of my job.

I have social anxiety, and I don't like talking on the phone, or if someone approaches me without warning. I don't mind so much when people send me Skype messages I can read and reply to, but I usually won't answer a phone call if you don't talk to me by messenger or email first. When I go to the office, I can't get work done because someone keeps coming over to want to talk to me about something not work-related.

 

[Synobun]

CV's - why do they exist and does anyone in the US use them? I came across one once and my cubemate was very impressed until I pointed out that most of the 'jobs' listed were actually papers and projects he had in grad school. Some were relevant, most were not.

Second question - would it be appropriate for me to have a 2 page resume to cover all the years I was working in not-aerospace? I have a good resume that only focuses on aerospace stuff but twice I've been asked to 'explain the gap' between starting Community College and when I started getting internships. The truth is there is no gap, I worked various jobs as a restaurant manager and other random, lesser jobs in that time but they have mostly have no relevance. The only way I could include those jobs is if I made a second page and I really don't want to do that. I think the longest I spent at any of those jobs was a year so it would show me hopping around jobs all the time which is super common at minimum wage levels but a lot of people I work with never held non-aerospace jobs and might not understand why someone making $5.15 an hour would hop jobs so much. There were a couple of relevant ones when I worked in a physics lab or when I was a manager but I don't think anyone wants to read a 2 page resume where the second page is all about me as a dishwasher or cashier at Goodwill.

My worry is that I've been asked about that 'gap' a couple of times now and I worry there might be a chance people are passing on me because of that gap without ever getting to the interview to ask about it. I really don't want a 2 page resume at this point, I'm too new to aerospace.

CVs are great for academia and project-based occupations. You'd probably start having one if you became a trailblazing hotshot in the industry. For normal jobs, even ones with a project component, a resume is just fine.

That being said: the myth of the 1-page resume isn't true anymore. You're not a beginner. The 1-page rule is for people at the bottom of the ladder who really shouldn't waste the time of anyone in HR. I don't think I've worked on a single resume in a few years now that was limited to a single page. Granted, I am not an authority, I just have anecdotal experience. I work with a careers coach and have also edited over 70 resumes in the past two years.

It's my understanding you've been an engineer with several companies over the years, with a different job description and different achievements with each. Doing each job justice simply requires space, and adhering to a 1-page limit likely hurts more than it helps. If you're somehow fitting everything necessary onto that single page, that's fine, but it's not a hard limit you need to reach.

Anyways, to get around this issue, Mary is right. A single line at the very end just before your education header (or whatever you have after experience) that says, "Previous professional experience includes [title] with [company] and [title] with [company]." Pick whichever sounds least crappy, but ultimately the line will show that you have work history beyond what you've listed. You don't even have to include years. That's good enough, and if they have any questions about that, they'll ask (and that becomes a lot easier to answer since you don't have to start an explanation from scratch).

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Everything aero related fits in one page. It's everything unrelated to aero before that which doesn't fit.

 

[The_J]

CVs are great for academia and project-based occupations. [...] For normal jobs, even ones with a project component, a resume is just fine.

Someone will need to explain to me what the difference here is, because until now I thought that a CV and a resume are the same o_O.