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How to get a job (or not)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Birdjaguar, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. Takhisis

    Takhisis daria dance party

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    up yours!
    I'd better make explicit why I find that company to be so utterly repugnant.
    Not only do is it built on slave labour arguing that paying a living wage would make the company inviable (and even denying some of their employees bathroom breaks, so it's not merely about wage slavery, as if that weren't bad enough), or in purposely driving smaller businesses into ruin.
    They are also currently funding funding climate change denial (including campaign funding for no fewer than 68 members of the US Congress who vote 100% of the time against climate change legislation) and engaging in fossil fuel exploration.
    Last but not least, they are coöperating with law enforcement agencies in developing facial recognition systems for hunting down immigrants.

    I'm sorry for those who are forced to work for those scum, but I cannot countenance enabling those people in any way.
     
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  2. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Had the conversation. The problem is the company/HR would only take as proof of the needed skill a significant amount of experience doing the very thing I'd be doing if I got promoted. It's not a short trial period of a few months either.

    This demand appears reasonable these days, so I don't think they'll budge.
     
    Birdjaguar likes this.
  3. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    This might be of interest to some of you.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    HR departments can be terrible things. You might check in with a manager in the department where you want the promotion. Their standards might be different or flexible or even allow for a progressive advancement.
     
  5. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Great to hear that I'm not the only person who thinks their criteria are unreasonable.

    I'm still considering things and waiting for developments while looking for interesting opportunities elsewhere. It would be great if they gave me something soon or if I could give them the finger by going somewhere better.
     
  6. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Depending upon the company, managers can influence or even override HR departments. If you went to the manager of the department where you want the promotion and sat down with him/her, you could explain your goals and skills. Then see if you can work out a plan to get you there. Then it is up to the manager to go to HR and "bend them to their will". It becomes a need for his department and not just the wishes of an employee: a company benefit and not a specific employee desire. The key is the conversation you have with the manager. You need to demonstrate your current value and your desire to improve on how you can benefit the company if given this opportunity. How can you make the manager look good, ease his work burdens, improve operations or revenue, make his/her department look better, do better, etc.
     
  7. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    From today's WSJ:

     
  8. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    From an article about being over qualified for a job;

     
  9. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    How not to get a job: Talk trash about people in your social / work group.

    There was a guy I kind of knew in college. We studied together a few times as part of a group and we both won the same scholarship once and went to a fancy dinner. I thought he was a nice guy, no issues with him. I ended up getting a job before I graduated and switched to online classes and moved to start work. I was chatting with one of my friends back in college a few weeks later and he causally mentioned that the other guy had been talking serious crap about me during study sessions. He said I was a dumbass and didn't deserve the job I got, blah blah blah.

    Guess who just hit me up for a job?
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  10. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    I've worked one place 4 different times. Glad I never burned any bridges on my exits.
     
  11. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Yup, don't burn bridges if you don't have to. I retired three years ago and the folks from that job still call me and ask stuff.
     
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  12. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Yeah, I plan on doing some contracting for them in retirement so I'll leave nice nice.
     
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  13. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Interesting article:

    CAPITAL ACCOUNT

    | By Greg Ip

    The Demographic Threat to U.S. Jobs Boom

    The U.S. job market continues to blow through expectations, generating 200,000 new jobs month after month and driving unemployment far below what economists thought a decade ago was the lowest possible level.
    The main reason is that the economy tends to keep creating jobs until interrupted by a recession. The current expansion has now lasted a record 10-plus years.
    So long as the usual recession triggers—rising inflation and interest rates, or financial excess—remain absent, job creation should continue.

    Yet eventually it will hit a constraint: The U.S. will run out of people to join the workforce. Indeed, this bright cyclical picture for the labor market is on a collision course with a dimming demographic outlook. While jobs are growing faster than expected, population is growing more slowly. In July of last year, the U.S. population stood at 327 million, 2.1 million fewer than the Census Bureau predicted in 2014 and 7.8 million fewer than it predicted in 2008. (Figures for 2019 will be released at the end of the month.) The U.S. fertility rate—the number of children each woman can be expected to have over her lifetime—has dropped from 2.1 in 2007 to 1.7 in 2018, the lowest on record. From 2010 through 2018, there were three million fewer births and 171,000 more deaths than the Census Bureau had projected in 2008.

    Death rates, already rising because the population is older, have been pressured further by “deaths of despair”—suicide, drug overdoses and alcohol- related illness.

    Aging doesn’t spell economic doom: Germany’s population is flat and Japan’s is falling, yet both boast lower unemployment than the U.S. But in the long run, job creation is constrained by the number of people of working age, which is why the International Monetary Fund puts Germany’s long-run growth rate at 1.3% and Japan’s at 0.6%, both lower than the U.S. at 1.9%.

    The latest employment data underscore these dynamics. In the 12 months through November, the number of people working rose 1.2% from the prior 12 months, according to the Labor Department. That was slightly faster than 1% growth of the labor force— the number of people working or looking for work—and thus the unemployment rate fell. Labor-force growth was in turn faster than the 0.6% growth in the working-age population. As a result, the share of working-age people who are in the labor force, known as the labor-force participation rate, rose.

    Unemployment is already as low, and possibly lower, as many economists think can be sustained in the long run.
    While the participation rate, at 63.2%, is lower than its 1990s peak of 67%, Stephanie Aaronson, head of economic studies at the Brookings Institution, said most of the decline is demographic and won’t easily reverse.
    More of the working-age population is over 60 and has thus retired—or will soon.
    Young adults are staying in school longer. Participation of prime-age women, those aged 25 to 54, is already back to historic highs.
    The participation of prime-age men, especially those without a college education, has been trending down for decades. Low unemployment could keep drawing people into the labor market and maintain participation over 63%, but she doubts it can go higher without big changes in government policies.

    The U.S. has had two longstanding demographic advantages over other countries: higher fertility and immigration.
    Both are eroding. Since 2008, the U.S. fertility rate has gone from well above to roughly in line with the average for the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a group of 36 mostly developed economies. Mark Mather, a demographer at the Population Reference Bureau, said analysts initially blamed the drop in births on the recession, and expected it to bounce back as people felt more economically secure. In fact, he says it started before the recession as young adults delayed marriage and children, which will likely result in fewer children over their lifetimes.

    “We don’t expect to see a bounce back any time soon.”






    Meanwhile, the inflow of foreign migrants to the U.S.has been trending flat to lower, while trending flat to higher in other countries.

    Last year, the foreign-born population expanded by a historically low 200,000, according to the Census Bureau. The exact reasons are unclear. The illegal immigrant population had stopped growing before President Trump took office. Legal immigration remained above one million through 2018.

    Mr. Trump has proposed keeping legal immigration levels constant, while shifting the composition more toward skills and away from family reunification. But that still implies a declining rate of immigration relative to overall population. And his administration has moved to discourage some legal immigration, such as those who might need federal benefits.

    Demographic trends aren’t etched in stone. Japanese labor- force participation, in particular by the elderly, has risen in recent years and German fertility is on the rise, though still quite low. A prolonged expansion could have similar effects in the U.S., and indeed there is some evidence fertility stabilized this year. Political cooperation could one day pave the way to more immigration.

    But until then the U.S. can’t assume it is immune to the demographic downdraft holding back Germany and Japan.
     
  14. xwyhzol

    xwyhzol Chieftain

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    Graded people have access to more jobs, educational institutions grade people.

    If you're thinking to go into education to get smart - think again - you go into education to get graded.

    The moral of this story is to have the right mindset. Don't succumb to the ego of, often delusional, humanity. What's the probability that every educated person is smart? If you're looking to get smart, use your senses; but, if you're looking to get a job, goto school under the impression it's just for grades.

    A lot of the excess that you don't need won't benefit your focus in classes; I wouldn't even focus on someone who thinks they're smart because of school or his/her reputation in a fool's game - it's not worth anything - it's a distraction.

    See here, I respect the education system - but I see it for what it is. What's the benefit of seeing things for what they are? And the latter?

    To conclude, get good grades by focusing more on what matters, and less on what does not. This will help you get a good job. The likelihood is if some light was cast over the matter, 90℅ of experts are foolish, unintelligent and evil - to stand proudly as one of them is a waste of time. Become wise, and smart, the proper way, using your own mind.
     
  15. Oerdin

    Oerdin Deity

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    That is a good thing. Wages will go up as companies compete for workers.
     
  16. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Education provides several different things all of which can be important in different ways to a person's job and life success. Education provides more formal ways to make these transitions more quickly and with others. Formal education doesn't necessarily make you smart or smarter, but it can provide the framework a person needs to make the most of what they do have innately. Unused promise is a terrible waste.
    • For some it will be the paper that says they have a degree or certification.
    • For some it will give them the communication skills to read and write effectively at the level required for their goals and expectations.
    • Some will learn the specific material required to do particular things at a high level.
    • Some will grow enough in experience to make the transition into adulthood.
    • For some, their horizons and expectations will expand into worlds they did not know existed before they were educated.
    • Some will find a mentor or to guide them
    All of the above can challenge one's mind and create a multiplier effect that enhances your ability to move along faster. The school of hard knocks can do that also for some, if it doesn't break them first.

    Can you do all this alone? Sure, but it is usually longer, lonelier and less interesting. And some of these are not possible without formal participation.

    The work reality for most of those who are under 40 is that you need to be ready for a changing future and have some skill set that will stay relevant over the next decade and beyond or be ready, willing and able to change your skill set as the world changes. Taxi driver is a poor choice. Content provider would be a much better choice.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
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  17. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    That is the traditional model. The last ten years of expansion haven't provided much of that except in the very few cities where all most all the new jobs are being created. It has only been in the last few months that we have seen wages for lowest tier or workers rise faster than for the managerial jobs. It's about time. Of course, that trend is often read as inflationary....
     
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  18. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    This is the first decade in American history that began and ended with economic growth. There's not been a recession in 10 full years which is crazy unusual. Unfortunately, as @Birdjaguar points out, this has created a lot of jobs but not a lot of wage growth. That is also a new phenomenon and it is a deeply troubling one that we should work to correct. I think we have put paid to the notion that tax cuts will deliver that wage growth; the general public as a whole did not support the recent tax cut and I think future prospective cuts will also be unpopular unless they exclude the rich and/or corporations from getting the lion's share of the cuts as has been the case with GOP-instigated cuts.
     
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  19. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    If a company offers a 401k but do not offer matching, would you be just as well off to find an individual retirement account with very low fees? Or is there some other benefit to employer-sponsored 401k's? You can't open a 401k without a company sponsor, right? You have to get some other kind of account like an IRA or Roth IRA? But other than when you pay taxes, they are basically the same as a non-matched 401k ?
     
  20. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    The big advantages of an employer 401k is the match and everything being automatic so you don't have to do anything. Without the match, you have to be responsible. Certainly you want a Roth 401k or IRA. They are better than traditional. Low fees are best. I like Vanguard; they have all my accounts.

    Employer and self managed accounts have different limits on how much you can contribute. You should read the whole link below. So if you plan on contributing over $6,000 a year, then the employer plan is better. Your wife needs one or the other too!
    https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/401k-c...o-19500-for-2020-catch-up-limit-rises-to-6500
     
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