How to get a job (or not)

[hobbsyoyo]

I have done what I can to show them that my passion aligns closely with the broader goals of the company and some of the more pressing, immediate ones. Unfortunately the focus of late has been in such firefighter mode that everyone has blinders on to the problems that are not the issue of the day.

I am tired of having this fight and call uncle. I got over my extreme rage this last week because I just stopped caring. Another thing from that article that struck me was the argument that the high performers keep doing their best work until they walk out the door. That's exactly what happened at my last job and I see it playing out again. I'm not going to stop giving 100%* because that would make me a target and be counterproductive for my career overall. But I'm not going to sit around and wait for things to get better because they could get worse. And I've done my bit to explain how and why things could be better and I'm just tired of not being listened to.

*But I won't be blowing out my eardrum on another Saturday for the company ever again

 

[uppi]

I have done what I can to show them that my passion aligns closely with the broader goals of the company and some of the more pressing, immediate ones. Unfortunately the focus of late has been in such firefighter mode that everyone has blinders on to the problems that are not the issue of the day.

I am tired of having this fight and call uncle. I got over my extreme rage this last week because I just stopped caring. Another thing from that article that struck me was the argument that the high performers keep doing their best work until they walk out the door. That's exactly what happened at my last job and I see it playing out again. I'm not going to stop giving 100%* because that would make me a target and be counterproductive for my career overall. But I'm not going to sit around and wait for things to get better because they could get worse. And I've done my bit to explain how and why things could be better and I'm just tired of not being listened to.

*But I won't be blowing out my eardrum on another Saturday for the company ever again

The broader goal of a large company is to make money for its shareholders. Preferably next quarter. I don't think that is your passion. You may be lucky that your passion aligns with the job a company has for you for some time, but I think it is very rare that this is going to last for long. Unfortunately, a company cannot afford to let all its employees follow their passion, because you would would end up with a huge directionless mess. And yeah, it would be good if you could follow your passion some of the time, but that is something that a company must be able to afford. Often, the decisions that have lead to the current situation have been made a long time ago and are difficult to reverse. That doesn't mean that you should stop trying to improve things, but you won't be able to improve everything, so pick your battles wisely.

Giving 100% is fine, just try to avoid giving 120%. You would just hurt yourself for no good reason.

Since you mention career: What are your goals for that? It is question I sometimes wrestle myself with, because I would rather do things I care about myself rather than directing others to do those things. But I feel that if you succeed at your job, you will be more or less forced to do the latter sooner or later. Sometimes it can be fun to be the guy who gives wise or not-so-wise comments, but if you do that all day, it is hard to have a feeling of accomplishment, especially compared to when you have made something yourself.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The broader goal of a large company is to make money for its shareholders. Preferably next quarter. I don't think that is your passion. You may be lucky that your passion aligns with the job a company has for you for some time, but I think it is very rare that this is going to last for long. Unfortunately, a company cannot afford to let all its employees follow their passion, because you would would end up with a huge directionless mess. And yeah, it would be good if you could follow your passion some of the time, but that is something that a company must be able to afford. Often, the decisions that have lead to the current situation have been made a long time ago and are difficult to reverse. That doesn't mean that you should stop trying to improve things, but you won't be able to improve everything, so pick your battles wisely.

Without the full context of the situation, this post seems very reasonable and this is all stuff I'm already keenly aware of. The reality is quite a bit uglier and less straightforward.

Giving 100% is fine, just try to avoid giving 120%. You would just hurt yourself for no good reason.

I lost a decade of career progress as a burger flipping, taco stuffing drop out. Giving 120% is my baseline strategy for catching up and it has worked well for me so far. I will admit that it probably makes me more stressed than I otherwise be which makes it harder for me to deal with struggles at work.

Since you mention career: What are your goals for that? It is question I sometimes wrestle myself with, because I would rather do things I care about myself rather than directing others to do those things. But I feel that if you succeed at your job, you will be more or less forced to do the latter sooner or later. Sometimes it can be fun to be the guy who gives wise or not-so-wise comments, but if you do that all day, it is hard to have a feeling of accomplishment, especially compared to when you have made something yourself.

I want to become a propulsion systems manager one day. That's my end goal. I'm a decent engineer but I'm a really good manager of people. While I say I 'wasted' my time as a drop out, the truth is that every job I had I was promoted to manager within a few months. In community college, I ran for and was elected to the board of trustees that govern the school twice. I was also the president of the student government and lead a statewide committee of student trustees as we dealt with the biggest budget crisis of Illinois history. So leading is something that I enjoy as are rocket engines which is why I've spent years learning about to them to set myself up to be in a position to marry these two things I love. I reached that goal freakishly fast but I've since had the rug pulled out from under me. But hey, I'm over being mad, this is life.

 

[Hygro]

It is economically rational to get your hard work in early. People say "slow down" but the people saying slow down are just guessing. Maybe rationalizing their own pace.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Since you mention career: What are your goals for that? It is question I sometimes wrestle myself with, because I would rather do things I care about myself rather than directing others to do those things. But I feel that if you succeed at your job, you will be more or less forced to do the latter sooner or later. Sometimes it can be fun to be the guy who gives wise or not-so-wise comments, but if you do that all day, it is hard to have a feeling of accomplishment, especially compared to when you have made something yourself.

I want to become a propulsion systems manager one day. That's my end goal. I'm a decent engineer but I'm a really good manager of people. While I say I 'wasted' my time as a drop out, the truth is that every job I had I was promoted to manager within a few months. In community college, I ran for and was elected to the board of trustees that govern the school twice. I was also the president of the student government and lead a statewide committee of student trustees as we dealt with the biggest budget crisis of Illinois history. So leading is something that I enjoy as are rocket engines which is why I've spent years learning about to them to set myself up to be in a position to marry these two things I love. I reached that goal freakishly fast but I've since had the rug pulled out from under me. But hey, I'm over being mad, this is life.

Nice posts. Folks with ambition about work and how they want to spend their time often struggle under poor leadership. In any case I set my course to be the guy in charge and that way I not only got to run things, but I also got to pick and choose areas to focus on that had more appeal.

To do that, you need to become an expert at something and them let that carry upward in the (or several) companies. If your path is through propulsion, then find the place or company where propulsion can happen for you. Learn to work in the trenches, manage a project, manage several projects, find money for new projects, build teams that work; learn to write annual plans and budgets. Work your way up. Learn more and more both about propulsion and about how to manage bigger and bigger groups of people. It is not a fast process, but it does work.

 

[aelf]

I didn't know this was a named and studied phenomenon but I used to experience it regularly. I'd be allowed to work on the things I really care about and I'd get in this zone where I just knock tasks out. I'd tackle stuff I didn't want to do as fast and as well as I could just so I could spend more time on the stuff I love. I was once so into my work that I cranked the volume of my headphones to the point where I now have tinnitus in my left ear and I didn't even notice. And half the time I spent during that work session was on a task I really couldn't have given two poops about but it got between me and rocket engines and was crushed as a result.

The sad reality is there are some cultures where enjoying one's job is considered a luxury and unnecessary, and that, chances are, if your job isn't a kind of burden and suffering, you're probably doing something wrong.

It's a screwed up way of thinking, but it's also championed especially by boomers and their admirers, who say it's the attitude that built nations in the wake of decolonisation, so it's hard to shake.

It is economically rational to get your hard work in early. People say "slow down" but the people saying slow down are just guessing. Maybe rationalizing their own pace.

But is it non-economically sound? That would depend on the individual.

 

[rah]

I was always a great task expert that had the ability to communicate. So they always made me a boss. That list posted

1. They make a lot of stupid rules.
2. They treat everyone equally.
3. They tolerate poor performance.
4. They don’t recognize accomplishments.
5. They don’t care about people.
6. They don’t show people the big picture.
7. They don’t let people pursue their passions.
8. They don’t make things fun.

Many of those have made me a good boss. (based on feedback) the most important ones for me are 1. rules irritate people, especially when there are too many and they don't make sense. 2. Is big. The more a person contributes, the more slack I give them. 5. duh 8. If it's fun most of the time they won't give you abuse during the inevitable exceptions.

 

[caketastydelish]

I'm looking for something tech related that could be a remote job. I have a resume, if anyone wants to see it (not publicly).

 

[rah]

If I wasn't retiring in the near future, I probably would have tried to poach a few people here. I've had good luck hiring from game sites

 

[Lexicus]

It is economically rational to get your hard work in early. People say "slow down" but the people saying slow down are just guessing. Maybe rationalizing their own pace.

That's damn sure what I'm doing. I don't feel any sense of worldly ambition whatsoever, and my attitude toward work is I'll do just enough to support the lifestyle I like. I'm not going to spend my life working for The Man (I don't mean this like, literally, because obviously I have a job now and go to it, it's just, I'm not going to define my life's purpose in terms of work), and it's very odd because my parents are the opposite, the Protestant work ethic is strong with them, but they totally failed to pass that on to me.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm looking for something tech related that could be a remote job. I have a resume, if anyone wants to see it (not publicly).

Are you looking to moonlight or leave the job you recently started?

This week I learned the hard way to always prepare for an interview, no matter how easy you think it is going to be. I'm quite embarrassed at how poorly I acquitted myself in an interview recently and my only consolation is that based purely on the style of interview it was, I don't think I'd like working at that company anyways.

 

[caketastydelish]

The job I'm working is very part-time (like 10 hours a week) whatever.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Have you checked on indeed.com for remote work?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Top 5 job markets (In order):
Austin TX (biggest by far)
San Jose CA
Salt Lake City UT
Boston MA
Orlando FL

Worst 5:
Rochester NY (worst)
Buffalo NY
Detroit MI
Cleveland OH
NYC (lost workers in 2018)

Based on 53 metro areas with 1M people or more. Ranked in 5 areas: unemployment rate; labor force participation; job growth; labor force growth; wage growth


BTW, if you are willing to move, Midland TX is one of the hottest job markets in the country. But of course, it is in Texas. Earn your spurs in Midland and then move to Austin!

 

[CKS]

Some things that came up this week:
If you are applying for a professional position and you have experience doing the very job you are applying for, do not spend more of your resume space writing about how great a restaurant server you are (10 lines!) than about how great you are at this job (6 lines!).

If you are applying for your first job, do not have a 4+ page resume.

Especially if you are applying for a job where you will have to write, proofread your documents and make sure they aren't filled with sentence fragments and gibberish.

If you are searching for jobs in two barely related areas, don't send off an application for X to someone hiring in Y. Pay attention to the job you are applying for.

 

[GenMarshall]

I’m kind of at the end of my wits to the point of career changing (if you can call it that when I haven’t even started a career). As of this moment I’ve started to give up trying to find office/administrative aide jobs and considering perusing a skills trade, even biting the bullet and taking a factory job just to make enough money to live off of in a state that has a high cost of living.

I honestly suspect that it’s a combination of my lack of interview skills, lack of experience compared to someone that has more or is an inside hire, and not so stellar resume has prevented me from climbing out of retail hell.

I was recently drawn to a program within my area that would offer to train underemployed individuals like myself in trades such as machinists, draftsmen/designers, etc. I’m kind of hesitant on taking up the offer since it involves taking a skills inventory and I’m afraid that the math portion would hurt me since it involves taking the test without a calculator.

The second hesitation I have is “what is the catch?”, eventhough it’s free I’m just skeptical that there’s a catch and I’m already burden with student debt and I don’t want to go back to school if I have to take on more debt for another useless degree that won’t land me a job.

Another thing that concerns me is being labeled as overqualified the moment they see my useless lib arts bachelors degree when I finish the program to go in as a machinist or a draftsman/designer.

I kind of feel like this is my only ticket at getting a better job and a better life for myself. I’ve basically narrowed my choices down to machinist and draftsmen/designer.

Have you checked on indeed.com for remote work?

I don’t have very much luck with the site since it’s mostly just retail/fast food joints and people looking for baby/pet sitters or salesman positions (I had enough dealing with people in retail and I don’t want to live off of commissions). I’ve largely given up with that site due to a lack of jobs that would provide a sustainable income and lack of responsive employers.

 

[Synobun]

Be wary of free trades programs. They often receive grants from the government for providing training but there is little oversight. You're in Massachusetts, right? I don't know what it's like there, but in Washington they can make promises with no obligation to fulfill them. Their training doesn't need to actually meet professional standards and the certification you receive afterwards can often be useless.

A friend of mine took a precursor program for marine welding and walked away from the six-month experience with nothing to show for it. If all you have is time, fine, but he had a full-time job that he had to scale back hours on because the training and classes took place during workdays. The certification he got wasn't worth the paper it was printed on, and the guarantee from the program that they'd connect him with employment upon completion mysteriously never came to pass.

 

[astrallite]

80-85% of jobs are not posted anywhere and hiring is done through networking, according to dozens of studies from nonprofits (Gallop), various companies (Linkedin, Facebook, Forbes, etc), and academic research; just the reality of the U.S. economy. If you are in this thread you are one of those people competing for the 15-20% of remaining jobs. The old adage of "It's not what you know, but who you know" still holds.

Otherwise the best piece of advice is to visit a psychologist and learn how to become a pro at making friends. If you are responding to a job ad you are already doing it the hard way. If you are somewhat of a introvert this world just wasn't made for you unfortunately--or you should probably vote for a presidential candidate that will provide jobs through an Infrastructure Program. With a 62.9% labor force participation rate we have far too many people slipping through the cracks in this society and need another New Deal to rectify the failure of private enterprise.

 

[Goodfella]

Those figures are probably true, but "despair because you have no friends, loser!" is not good advice. Getting a job through networking rarely means having your dad or friend gift you a job. It means learning about positions from fellow co-workers, meeting recruiters at fairs, being referred by your manager to one of his colleagues, etc. Being nice, moderately good at your job, and having some social skills are the ingredients here. You don't need to be a social butterfly, see a psychologist, or read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" to do this. The emphasis should be on professional contacts, not personal friends. A successful business doesn't operate as a jobs program for the owner's friends. Also, I despise that adage. As I mentioned above, this attitude cynically implies that one should give up and accept their woes. This is false. The "what you know" absolutely matters, and the "who you know" part should be modified to "who you know and what you can do to help them."

As to getting a job without having internal contacts, I've had probably two dozen interviews from applying cold. Typically, you should try to bolster your application by meeting a recruiter at a job fair, messaging them on LinkedIn, or cold calling/cold emailing.

To the overall point, yes anyone will be better served by being likable, having a lot of friends, and having a large professional network. But if you lack those things, you'll have to work on them more once you get a job the old fashioned way.

 

[Birdjaguar]

What city are you in again @GenMarshall ?