Hunting too Butch for Models, Go back to the Salon?
- Thread starter Farm Boy
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Yes, voice mail is still preferred, regardless of my sporting activities.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
The overwhelming majority of rural Africans are agriculturalists and pastoralists, not hunters. It wouldn't occur to them to go hunting for food any more than you or I.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
"We got to thin out their numbers or else they die."
Zack
99% hot gas
I often hunt for food. In the pantry, but still.
Narz
keeping it real
Extra food is extra food.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
The US Constitution says nothing of the sort.
"All men are created equal..." is from the Declaration of Independence, a founding document which the Supreme Court has ruled to be legally meaningless.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Yes, but these people are farmers and herders with specialised food-production techniques; why would they drop that to practice a form of production they haven't practised and don't understand? It's like asking a lawyer to start practising surgery because, hey, a job's a job.
Mise
isle of lucy
I don't think that hunting being "not feminine enough" was the primary motivation and I think that sensitivity to animal testing/animal rights was indeed the main reason. I don't see any reason to question L'Oreal's claimed reasons. However, as a hypothetical, it's still worth considering. If L'Oreal had fired a model for activities in her spare time that were deemed "too masculine" then yeah, that would be totally scummy. If L'Oreal had fired a model for activities in her spare time that were deemed "too racist" then that would be fine by me. Where do you draw the line? What activities ought to be protected, and what activities ought to be fair game for employers to fire you for? That, to me, is a more interesting discussion than this particular case. And I think that if we explored that, we'd get closer to finding out why firing someone for doing things that are "too masculine" is totally scummy.
Why is that scummy? A job as a model is completely visual and if a company has requirements as to what the person they hire projects visually, then that either needs to be adhered to or the person can find another job. I've really no issue with any of this so long as the terms of the contract were followed.
What if a male underwear model suddenly began developing man boobs. He could still model the underwear just fine, but it may well not be the image the company using him to model their underwear wants to project. Too feminine and all that. Are you suggesting they should be obligated to continue using him?
What if a male underwear model suddenly began developing man boobs. He could still model the underwear just fine, but it may well not be the image the company using him to model their underwear wants to project. Too feminine and all that. Are you suggesting they should be obligated to continue using him?
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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And the tour guides are tour guides. I get the feeling what Africa needs is largely political stability and economic development. Not subsistence based hunting. I mean sure, tribals dancing around a fire shaking a spear is I guess kinda picturesque, but I'd best most of the people involved would rather have some more contemporary amenities.
I guess you can draw a rough-ish correlation to my Dad. He could hunt deer to eat them, the wander through our farm. There is a season for them, and he would be a "local." But my Dad does other stuff. He's never learned to field dress a deer or developed a relationship with a butcher. He doesn't spend his time sitting in trees with a gun or bow. He lets people that ask him do that instead. They usually give him a fruit basket and possibly some venison if they get anything. That exchange is worth it to him.
Mise
isle of lucy
Am I misunderstanding something? I thought she was fired because she put photos of her on a hunting trip up on her facebook/twitter or whatever. Models are chosen for their physical beauty, right? And not their holidays or hobbies or tweets or any other activity that might conceivably be deemed "too masculine". So I'm confused by your post, B - what "visual" thing are you referring to here? Not the fact that she went on a hunting trip, surely? Looking too masculine, i.e. having a beard or something, then sure, that's a visual thing. But doing something masculine, in her own time, not on the job, and in no way affecting her visual attributes in a photo shoot -- surely that's a different thing?
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
You are missing that the OP is nothing but a silly straw man, which you are now trying to perpetuate.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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The OP was a question about a concern I had reading the linked article. It's a concern that most people here don't share and the root cause is instead probably ignorance about wildlife management. But why don't you link in the Wikipedia page to logical fallacies? Maybe quote-block half of it onto the forum. That might be helpful. 
Image is image, whether from physical attributes or from content of actions (however that should be worded, I am sure you know what I mean) that projects it. If she was "allowed to have her contract complete" or whatever they said because they didn't approve of the image it projected for her to go hunting, whether due to it being too masculine in their view or because of animal rights concerns is irrelevant.
I really have no issue, as long as it is stipulated in the contract upon hiring, of companies putting behavior/morals clauses in there. There is nothing that forces anyone to sign such a contract if they don't like the clause. They can just walk away. (*)
(*) - Please, no silly strawmans from anyone about discrimination and blah blah blah. Clearly I am not talking about clauses that would already violate laws in place to prevent discrimination based on things that have been deemed worthy of protection. Discrimination, as a concept, in and of itself isn't bad. It just depends on what is being discriminated against. If you disagree with this, then I assume you would oppose discrimination against convicted pedophiles being hired as elementary school teachers.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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Well, that one is actually based on some evidence. Like perhaps not wanting a burglar to be hired as a plumber working in people's empty houses. Not hiring somebody for being involved in hunting or animal husbandry is more like not hiring somebody because ikky factor. And we know how not wanting to hire people because ikky factor often manifests itself. Just that the majority in a group never thinks its own "ew" factor is unreasonable since it gets communal reinforcement. Or something along those lines?
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Yet more silly jerkish trolls instead of even trying to discuss your own topic.The OP was a question about a concern I had reading the linked article. It's a concern that most people here don't share and the root cause is instead probably ignorance about wildlife management. But why don't you link in the Wikipedia page to logical fallacies? Maybe quote-block half of it onto the forum. That might be helpful.
And it clearly has nothing to do with "wildlife management", much less supposed ignorance. But go ahead and continue to ignore what the L'Oreal representative stated in the article you posted in your own OP, and which I even highlighted.
Moderator Action: Calling other users' posts "jerkish trolls" is itself trolling, as you well know. Infraction issued.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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That's pretty much what I'm interested in, the merits of that statement you pulled out from the link in my very own OP.
Not sure what the hell you want Formy. I had a question, it's received a pretty universal response, I've taken that in mind and moved onto a different question that interests me. So hunting isn't butch, it's an image issue revolving around a history of animal testing when the image in question has nothing to do with it. Which leads us into people not knowing what's going on, but it's the image.
Not sure what the hell you want Formy. I had a question, it's received a pretty universal response, I've taken that in mind and moved onto a different question that interests me. So hunting isn't butch, it's an image issue revolving around a history of animal testing when the image in question has nothing to do with it. Which leads us into people not knowing what's going on, but it's the image.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Exactly, yeah. There seems to be this assumption that rural Africans are all ready to pick up a spear and go bounding off after an antelope because, well, isn't that what they do in Africa? But that's as you say a picturesque view without any firm relation to the realities of life as an agriculturalist or pastoralists. There's no reason why the duties related to population control in Africa should revert to "the locals" rather than to professionals, simply because it's Africa.
