If abortion should be a crime, how should we punish the woman?

[Little Raven]

You know, I've never really thought about this, but via Atrios, I came across Chris Matthews trying to nail down a pro-life Senate candidate on the subject. And it got me thinking. Why does the pro-Life movement only ever talk about penalties for doctors? Aren't the women every bit as culpable?

I know many people here consider abortion to be murder. What do you propose we do with a murdering mother-that-wasn't? Fine her? Lock her up? Execute her?

 

[Elrohir]

Actually, most of the Pro-Life movement doesn't favor punishing the mother. The reason behind this is that there has been a lot of research and findings on how abortion harmful to women's physical and emotional health, and that they don't always know exactly what they are getting into. So they decided to just punish the doctors instead of the mothers. Besides, a weeping women on the 6 o'clock news being sent to prison for having an abortion would be too much of a coup for the opposition.

 

[bhsup]

Bingo. Punish the physician.

 

[Little Raven]

But morally, that makes no sense. If abortion is murder, then the mother is every bit as culpable as the physician. When someone hires a hitman, do we just lock up the hitman? Or do we throw the person who hired them in prison as well?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Well, if abortion is murder, the mother should go to prison - I can't see how you could argue with that. What other crime could you get away from by it being (allegedly) harmful to your health?

Elrohir and Agent's position seems highly inconsistent to me. If it's indeed the majority opinion of the Pro-Life movement, I'm gonna snicker quite a bit the next time a pro-lifer goes on about moral consistency.

 

[bhsup]

Elrohir and Agent's position seems highly inconsistent to me. If it's indeed the majority opinion of the Pro-Life movement, I'm gonna snicker quite a bit the next time a pro-lifer goes on about moral consistency.

You guys are indeed right, but I just have trouble thinking of sending a, possibly distraught and mentally out of sorts, mother to prison for asking for one.

 

[Shadylookin]

well if you feel that a fetus is truly on par with other humans then the only ruling for abortion would be premeditated murder, which in most states carries the death penalty. it also means women that have miscariages are commiting involuntary manslaughter. and the mother would be forced to risk her life if the unborn actually could cause medical conidtions because she cannot get an abortion.

 

[Little Raven]

You guys are indeed right, but I just have trouble thinking of sending a, possibly distraught and mentally out of sorts, mother to prison for asking for one.

But she's not a mother. (or at least, not necessarily a mother)

She killed her child.

 

[nonconformist]

Impregnation!

 

[Elrohir]

Well, if abortion is murder, the mother should go to prison - I can't see how you could argue with that. What other crime could you get away from by it being (allegedly) harmful to your health?

Elrohir and Agent's position seems highly inconsistent to me. If it's indeed the majority opinion of the Pro-Life movement, I'm gonna snicker quite a bit the next time a pro-lifer goes on about moral consistency.

How about this: We illegalize abortion and throw the pieces of slime doctors who perform them in jail for the rest of their miserable lives. Then we'll see what we can do about the mothers, deal?

 

[Arminius]

It becomes situational, as does all punishments. In the event of abortion being illegal I could foresee some penalties. Examples:
1) A woman arranges for an abortion (illegal), however the procedure is prevented. This would be prosecuted as conspiracy to commit murder for both her and all involved, which could include whoever was going to perform the abortion as well as anyone who helped her to arrange the abortion. The stickiness comes into play over the significant other. If he forced her to get the abortion then it's his problem not hers, but the court would have to determine his level of involvement.
2) A woman has an abortion (illegal). The performer, the woman, and whoever else is highly involved could be prosecuted for murder, although the death penalty for all is unlikely, short of the performer killing the child and the mother.

 

[Perfection]

The doctor and woman shall be brought out to the town square and stoned be the villagers.

 

[Elrohir]

The doctor and woman shall be brought out to the town square and stoned be the villagers.

Stoning is too old-fashioned. Burning at the stake is where it's at!

 

[ironduck]

Yeah, let's kill everyone who uses contraceptive while we're at it. Every sperm is sacred and all that.

 

[Arminius]

it also means women that have miscariages are commiting involuntary manslaughter.

No, it does not. If I'm driving myself and three friends to the cinema and my car crashes due to a malfunction caused by faulty production, I have not committed involuntary manslaughter even if all my friends die.

[QUOTE='Lectric Law Library]The cases of manslaughter may be classed as follows those which take place in consequence of: 1. Provocation. 2. Mutual combat. 3. Resistance to public officers, etc. 4. Killing in the prosecution of an unlawful or wanton act. 5. Killing in the prosecution of a lawful act, improperly performed, or performed without lawful authority.[/QUOTE]

 

[Little Raven]

How about this: We illegalize abortion and throw the pieces of slime doctors who perform them in jail for the rest of their miserable lives. Then we'll see what we can do about the mothers, deal?

The supposed strength of the Pro-Life movement is their moral clarity.

The moral culpability of the mother will not change depending on whether or not doctor is imprisoned. So why wait before laying out what the appropriate punishment for a mother is?

 

[ironduck]

Impregnation!

Artificial insemination or through some village executioner?

 

[Arminius]

Yeah, let's kill everyone who uses contraceptive while we're at it. Every sperm is sacred and all that.

It could be argued that preventing life is different from ending life. In fact, I think that's the whole debate.

 

[nonconformist]

Artificial insemination or through some village executioner?

Oh, God, I love you at times, Ironduck.

In any case, I thought the Catholic Chruch's whole gripe was that ending life, and preventing it starting was the same thing?

 

[ironduck]

It could be argued that preventing life is different from ending life. In fact, I think that's the whole debate.

And yet you see the wish from anti-abortionists to kill the doctors.