I'm from the Government and I'm here to help

[Berzerker]

I've heard this phrase many times from Republican folk as an indictment of encroaching state involvement in our lives. The collection of personal information is often the gateway to that encroachment and the first sign of more to come. Think of how resistant gun owners are to politicians pushing registration efforts, they're sure it'll lead to gun confiscation. I'm angry that government has assigned us numbers and those numbers are then used by criminals to steal from us.

Apparently several years ago DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) was an Obama executive order allowing for the kids of illegals to stay. But the program required the collection of personal information from the kids and their families. We know who they are and now that information may be used to deport them.

It may be used... Trump's ending DACA but that doesn't mean current residents will be deported, they may be 'grandfathered' in and only new applicants will be rejected. But if current applicants do get deported, the very people who condemn the encroaching state will be using the tools they condemn.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/us/politics/trump-daca-dreamers-immigration.html?mcubz=0

 

[Terxpahseyton]

This is so adorably American
In many European nations to be properly (and mandatorily) registered, with residence, and an id card containing all the basic information about your identity, is the most normal thing in the world. The upside of such a practice include that voting documents are automatically send to your address before an election (recently got mine for the upcoming German federal election) and that the police has much less need to arrest you on the spot.
Illegal being illegals, they usually also are not registered, naturally. But it is true, registrations make deportation a lot easier. Or in general rounding people up. They would make it a lot easier to kill all the Jews if Germany every had that great idea again or deport all the gingers to Ireland if Germany finally had that great idea.
But if you have that kind of government, they will introduce registration, I am sure, and not having registration will prevent such kind of government from coming about, ??? Is this basically your argument?
Well, seems pretty superficial to me.

But I suppose little in the world is as important as Americans having a couple of guns in the house

 

[plarq]

The problem is, there is a deep mistrust on the government, so if there is any possibility to reduce the government cost to track down a person, the logical assumption is that such surveillance will be more frequent and draconian.

I, as a Chinese, would be deeply uncomfortable if the Chinese government collects my DNA, because you know China is #1 in death penalty, #1 in organ transplantation, and #1 in death penalty inmate organ recycling. In case my organs could save Xi Jinping's life, I would end up being murdered by the state. The only way for me to avoid such is to have my DNA unregistered.

 

[AdrienIer]

Collecting DNA from everyone is crossing the line of what a government should know about you. The french state has my fingerprints but anything more than that is a recipe for disaster.

As someone who is very likely to teach at least one illegal immigrant starting tomorrow I'm appalled by the DACA repeal. The government has so many ways it can help people that it would be a shame to restrain from using its possibilities. The only problem in the US is that half the politicians in the country quite openly want to abuse the government's possibilities. Why you guys put them in power is still a mystery though.

 

[warpus]

1. Elect a shady government into office

2. Fear the shady government

3. ?

4. Usa #1

 

[plarq]

Now is it possible to elect an honest person?

 

[warpus]

I mean they're politicians.. But it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy to continue electing governments into office that you will then fear and want out of your life because you don't trust them.

 

[rah]

There's always going to be a group of people that distrust the government regardless of who is elected.

 

[Zelig]

I've set up an automated mail-order service where anyone can order samples of my DNA online.

Anyone can have my DNA info, and anyone can sprinkle my DNA anywhere, making the information essentially worthless.

And for extra deniability, the mail-order service will also pick random addresses to mail DNA samples to at random intervals.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I've set up an automated mail-order service where anyone can order samples of my DNA online.

Anyone can have my DNA info, and anyone can sprinkle my DNA anywhere, making the information essentially worthless.

And for extra deniability, the mail-order service will also pick random addresses to mail DNA samples to at random intervals.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwww! Gross!

 

[Silurian]

Your DNA is all over the place anyway.
You are shedding skin all the time.
Some of that ends on other people.
And they pass it on.
A bit like six Degrees of Kevin Bacon

 

[warpus]

Doesn't that just make it easier for someone to plant your DNA at a crime scene?

 

[rah]

I guess that's the point. If it's easy for someone to plant it since it's everywhere, it reduces the certainty that he was actually there.

 

[warpus]

I guess that's the point. If it's easy for someone to plant it since it's everywhere, it reduces the certainty that he was actually there.

That's not a very good plan though. It just raises the possibility that he's going to be a suspect in crimes he otherwise would have had 0 association with. Sure, eventually it will be proven that he wasn't guilty, but being a suspect in a murder investigation doesn't sound fun to me.

 

[rah]

I didn't say it was a good plan.
But if your dna is everywhere, finding it becomes meaningless, even if you are actually guilty. Beyond all doubt and all that.
They would have to use other means to prove your guilt.

 

[Traitorfish]

illegals

Oh, gross.

 

[REDY]

I think that its definately nasty when someone registers to get help and his data will be used against him because presidents change.

 

[Berzerker]

I didn't say it was a good plan.
But if your dna is everywhere, finding it becomes meaningless, even if you are actually guilty. Beyond all doubt and all that. They would have to use other means to prove your guilt.

I dont know how many people were punished but a study eventually showed an enormous % of the currency showed traces of cocaine

 

[Arwon]

Yeah I don't think the issue here is the existence of, like, data.

Unethical use of it, a lack of separation of responsibilities, lack of privacy protections, those sorta things, sure. But that's quite distinct from the very existence of data.

 

[plarq]

Doesn't that just make it easier for someone to plant your DNA at a crime scene?

Your DNA is probably not in government database, as they only collect felony convicts and other suspects. So they can't find your DNA in the computer.