I'm pro-Second Amendment, but

[Elrohir]

... is it just me who finds the gun nut culture to be profoundly disturbing? Like, that one time on TV, this old dude led an entire convention of gun owners, then he produced his gun and began hugging it, saying things like "I love my gun. They won't take it away from me," clinging tight to it in reaction to a gun control measure being enacted somewhere else.

Then you have the guys who have piles of guns in their cars, at home, etc. And let's not get started on gun conventions.

I guess the discussion that I want to foster is, is it alright for me to completely back the freedom of these guys to buy as many guns as they want but to feel a bit of disgust and revulsion as to how gun-centric their lives have become? Honestly, it feels like a sexual attraction to guns for me.

Why not? Presumably you don't want to ban all books that contain things you find disgusting. I'm sure there's internet porn that would disgust you that you wouldn't want to censor, perhaps for varying reasons. I don't think it's necessary to want to make something illegal in order to find it disgusting on some level. Disgust may or may not have a moral component, and immorality is not always best met with state power.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Ehhhh....iono. I'm fine with like...collections of historical guns as antiques or for preservation purposes or whatever because, for whatever reason, such a collection seems significantly less...harmful? or else less usable to inflict violence in my mind.

In other words your apprehension is based on emotional projections and not actual facts.

A 100 year old gun can be used to kill you just as dead as one made last year.

 

[Ajidica]

How many murders or other violent crimes happen with antique guns compared to modern guns?

 

[Bugfatty300]

How many murders or other violent crimes happen with antique guns compared to modern guns?

Guns manufactured within the past 50 years are more plentiful and readily available than antiques. But yeah sometimes antiques are popular for crime too. An old Mosin-Nagant carbine costs lest than $100.

 

[El_Machinae]

I find excessive gun-clinging to be weird. The idea of being 'afraid' that they're going to take my guns is ... strange. What I don't like is all the paperwork and licensing hassle that can go with gun ownership. I want my cake and to eat it too!

Anyone without atleast one gun is going to be sad when zombies/aliens/ninjas/pirates/commies show up.

The real problem with this Pascal's Wager is that I think I'd want a rather different gun if zombies showed up than if aliens showed up. With zombines, you want a small/portable carbine(/smg) that shoots big bullets. I'd lean towards the KRISS Super V (firing the .45 ACP). Something that bursts accurately, but can also make a headshot when I have the time. Something I can run with, but still carry a lot of magazines.

Aliens? Most aliens need the most powerful bullet you can handle You don't need to carry as many rounds, because if you're not surviving with big gun, you're probably not going to survive. A short-barrel FN FAL, I think.

(Commies just need a 5.56 carbine, since that's a common ammunition)

 

[Ajidica]

@Bugfatty: Any statistics backing your position up?

 

[Bugfatty300]

@Bugfatty: Any statistics backing your position up?

What position an I endorsing that could be proven with statistics? What about that statistic you mentioned in your last post?

 

[Ajidica]

What position an I endorsing that could be proven with statistics? What about that statistic you mentioned in your last post?

Correct me if I am wrong but:

How many murders or other violent crimes happen with antique guns compared to modern guns?

Is a question, not asserting a fact.

 

[Japanrocks12]

Follow up:

I will continue to support the right of people to own guns, but I will continue to feel disturbed by the excesses of people who really love their guns. The latter isn't going to change the former.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Correct me if I am wrong but:

Is a question, not asserting a fact.

The answer to your question is the assumption that most crimes involving firearms are committed with recently manufactured weapons because they (and their ammo) are more plentiful and readily available than antiques (guns made before 1898 according to US law)

 

[SG-17]

I doubt that you would see anyone go on a shooting spree with a smooth-bore flintlock, a blunderbuss, or a dueling pistol.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I doubt that you would see anyone go on a shooting spree with a smooth-bore flintlock, a blunderbuss, or a dueling pistol.

Probably not but "antique" does not = musket. They certainly weren't using muskets in 1898.

Is an antique Winchester rifle made in 1894 any less lethal than one made in 1994? I doubt it.

 

[SG-17]

You said that any gun made before 1898 is an antique in US law. Therefore a musket would be an antique gun, would it not? Unless you meant that antique doesn't just mean musket, which yes, is obvious.

 

[Cutlass]

The worst enemies of keeping guns legal are the gun nuts who fill their houses with them and rant and rave and wave them around all the time. And those irresponsible with them and don't control them and children's access to them. Slap some sense into those 2 groups and the private ownership of guns becomes much less of an issue. After that, drug and gang related violence is the biggest part of the problem.

 

[TheDS]

Anyone who collects anything is obsessive, be it guns, video games, books, or terms in a political office.

Congress even defined a person seeking more than two terms or ten years in office to BE obsessive, then backtracked to apply it only to the office of the President. However, the metric applies just fine to ANYONE who exceeds those limits.

I'd be all for enhanced penalties for crimes committed with weapons if it wasn't for the fact that the criminals who DON'T use guns to commit their crimes are FAR more dangerous. I'd take ten gun nuts over a politician capable of starting a war any day.

Politicians and diapers should be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain. Diaper Theory is to be embraced; the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

 

[Dachs]

Gun collectors are just as weird as any other kind of obsessive collectors. For whatever reason though, our culture happens to be more accepting of them.

I, for one, don't tolerate human collectors at all.

 

[Bugfatty300]

You said that any gun made before 1898 is an antique in US law. Therefore a musket would be an antique gun, would it not?.

Legally no. A musket would not be firearm according to the federal government's definition. It's just a piece of metal and wood that is no more legally regulated than a broom stick (as far as the feds are concerned). Firearms made before 1898 are exempt from most regulations.

 

[JohnRM]

Yeah, there are lot of gun nuts that scare the piss out of me, and I am pretty hardcore pro-Second.

 

[warpus]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

The second amendment doesn't make much sense in that form. You guys should get rid of it and replace it with a version that just says

The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed

I suppose then it wouldn't be the second amendment anymore? Can you amend amendments?

 

[TheDS]

The second amendment doesn't make much sense in that form. You guys should get rid of it and replace it with a version that just says



I suppose then it wouldn't be the second amendment anymore? Can you amend amendments?

If enough people agree to it, yes. The Constitution is a flexible document.