Is a hamburger a sandwich?

[Camikaze]

I assume the difference is between a distinct particular thing, and some category of things. 'A sandwich' is not a distinct particular thing - there is no thing which you can point and say, "ah! that is the 'a sandwich' I've been hearing about". Sandwiches are a class of things sharing certain characteristics, but 'a sandwich' does not exist as a unique individual item.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You tell me (and I know myself) that if you go into a restaurant and ask for "a thing," the server will not know what thing you would like. Hence "a thing" is not a thing.

Yay! Perfection is operating in the spirit of our inquiry (and has resumed it).And has given us the key to why the hamburger simultaneously is and is not a sandwich.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Someday, in the distant future, or descendents will necro this thread and ask "what the heck is a hamburger?" or maybe "what the heck is a sandwich?" In either case, this thread will only confuse them further.

 

[Gori the Grey]

"In those days there were giants."

"And giant sandwiches."

"Whatever those are."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

"In those days there were giants."

They will probably find the thread while researching the legendary Gori the Grey.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Hey, it's Timsup2nothin (along with BvBPL) who has provided the best template for the taxonomy this thread so sorely needs.

"I want to hear more about that Tim."

 

[sophie]

I assume the difference is between a distinct particular thing, and some category of things. 'A sandwich' is not a distinct particular thing - there is no thing which you can point and say, "ah! that is the 'a sandwich' I've been hearing about". Sandwiches are a class of things sharing certain characteristics, but 'a sandwich' does not exist as a unique individual item.

This. It's sort of like, say, birds. A cardinal is a bird. An eagle is a bird. A vulture is a bird. If you glance at it you will call it a bird. An ostrich is also a bird as is a penguin. We don't necessarily think of it immediately when we think of "bird" as bird to us usually means beak+feathers+flight. But if you take the time to think about it...yeah I guess penguins and ostriches are technically birds, aren't they?

It's the same with sandwiches. A BLT is a sandwich. A turkey sub is a sandwich. And a tuna salad is a sandwich. A hamburger is also a sandwich, as is a philly cheesesteak. We don't necessarily think of these things immediately when we think of "sandwich" as if you just say "sandwich" with no further specification people are going to think "coldcuts+two pieces of bread". But if you take the time to think about it...yeah I guess those two things are technically sandwiches, aren't they?

This has been my experience asking around among my friends and family so far. If you pose the question "is a hamburger a sandwich" they say "no". When I ask "why not?" they pause for a second before going "...yeah I guess it is a sandwich, isn't it?"

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Just for clarity, I understood "a tuna salad" to mean "tuna salad on [bread of some sort]" not as the tuna salad on the menu at my local hangout which is a ball of tuna salad on top of a green salad.

You have summed up this hamburger business perfectly. It is not "the first sandwich that springs to mind" for most people, but pretty much everyone will agree that it is certainly a sandwich.

 

[Takhisis]

They make tuna salad sandwiches?

 

[Zkribbler]

"A sandwich is a food item consisting of one or more types of food placed on or between slices of bread, or more generally any dish wherein two or more pieces of bread serve as a container or wrapper for some other food."

Thus says Wikipedia.

 

[Takhisis]

We know that, but that might make a shawarma count as a sandwich, which it is clearly not.

 

[Lohrenswald]

Isn't a schawarme wrapped in a single piece of bread?

 

[Gori the Grey]

"A sandwich is a food item consisting of one or more types of food placed on or between slices of bread, or more generally any dish wherein two or more pieces of bread serve as a container or wrapper for some other food."

Thus says Wikipedia.

By this definition, though, and as BvBPL has already outrageously asserted, an ice cream sandwich would not be a sandwich. D'y'hear? An ice cream sandwich not a sandwich.

Why you can't resort to Wikipedia for life's important questions.

So, new side question to the group: is an ice cream sandwich a sandwich?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Of course it is.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You don't have to convince me. You have to convince BvBPL, who has stated as categorically (#145) that it is not.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You don't have to convince me. You have to convince BvBPL, who has stated as categorically (#145) that it is not.

My arguments are directed at lurkers, so I can let some things pass when I think they are too far out in the weeds to influence any lurkers. This is one of those.

 

[Tycho Brahe]

It's easy.

A sandwich is a cold cut of meat/cheese/veggies between two slices of bread.

A burger is a hot beef patty in a bun.

A hot dog is a hot sausage in a bun.

 

[PhroX]

It's easy.

A sandwich is a cold cut of meat/cheese/veggies between two slices of bread.

A burger is a hot beef patty in a bun.

A hot dog is a hot sausage in a bun.

So what would you call it if I took a slice of hot roast beef and put it between two slices of bread?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's easy.

A sandwich is a cold cut of meat/cheese/veggies between two slices of bread.

A burger is a hot beef patty in a bun.

A hot dog is a hot sausage in a bun.

What if I pile my cold cuts, cheese, and veggies in a bun?

 

[Gori the Grey]

It's easy.

A sandwich is a cold cut of meat/cheese/veggies between two slices of bread.

A burger is a hot beef patty in a bun.

A hot dog is a hot sausage in a bun.

So what would you call it if I took a slice of hot roast beef and put it between two slices of bread?

Or, more crucially, what if one put a hot (ground beef) beef patty between two slices of bread?

That may be what you meant to ask, PhroX, but do you mind if I make your phrasing more pointed. ("Roast beef" generally refers to a cut of beef different from that generally used to make up hamburgers, and often available as a "cold cut." So your question could be interpreted just to be asking, "what if the cold cut isn't cold?" But I want the more defining question: which is more determinative for a hamburger's difference from a sandwich, using a grilled ground beef patty as its inside, or using a bun as its outsides? Or are both necessary?

So I put the question to anyone who doesn't think a hamburger is a sandwich: how would you classify a hamburger patty served between slices of bread rather than between a bun? As a sandwich? Or as a hamburger?

@Tim: BvBPL's not "out in the weeds." Wiki's definition wouldn't allow ice cream sandwiches to be regarded as sandwiches. Again, Wiki isn't good for settling questions such as the one we now have in hand. But it's a remarkably good register of the common understanding of such matters. And it tells us that bread specifically is thought crucial.