Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Chukchi Husky]

I've heard a bit more just earlier. I was told that the pound has recovered from its fall and that the shock to the markets around the world was just a stupid reaction. They said it doesn't make any logical sense that Britain would be weaker after leaving the EU. as Britain was paying far more into the EU then it got back, and anything the EU paid for in Britain will now come from the £8-10 billion that's saved form not being in the EU.

 

[Mise]

Sounds like Boris Johnson is a lot smarter than people seemed to be giving him credit for... once the dog catches the car, he smartly steps away from it and goes on to do something else... as opposed to snuggling up under the wheels or locking his jaws around the bumper.

Actually he was hugely outmanoeuvred and stabbed in the back by Michael Gove.

Boris and Gove had a deal before the vote: Boris would be PM and Gove would be Chancellor. Boris went around getting the support of Tory MPs to ensure a successful bid. But unbeknownst to him, Gove had been doing the same thing. Boris has the support of ~90 MPs yesterday, and was on the verge of announcing. But Gove announced this morning, taking around half of those MPs with him. The support of pro-Leave MPs now clearly with Gove, Boris had no choice but to abandon his plans to run for leader.

Gove did other underhand things as well. For one thing, his wife "accidentally" sent an email critical of Boris to the press, instead of (presumably) to Michael Gove. Bear in mind that Gove's wife is a writer for the Daily Mail, so it's not like she isn't media savvy.

But perhaps more damningly is that Gove was sent a copy of the Telegraph article that Boris had written a couple days ago. The article was a complete disaster for Boris, as it was terribly muddled, contradictory, and poorly written. Boris himself regrets publishing it. But he gave it to Gove to check over, and Gove made a few changes himself. It seems as though Gove, had he been a more honourable man, would have recommended that Boris scrapped the article and start from scratch, rather than publish an obviously stupid article in a national newspaper, days before announcing his bid for PM. However, Gove not only gave the all clear, but actually made changes himself. Very sneaky, very dishonourable.

So yeah, the only one who comes out looking good from all of this is Theresa May, who has largely remained anonymous throughout.

 

[metatron]

Ok, there's tons of things i could say about this, but won't on account of having a life.

But just this one thing:

Some of the reasons to leave argued before the vote:

• Brussels is more corrupt and machiavellian than Babylon
• The EU is a vile autocracy with no regard for anyone
• [coded racist stuff about Merkel and Germany]

Reasons why the UK will totally get a Great Deal* given now:

• Brussels is the Capital of Compromise
• The EU is a highminded humanist organisation
• Merkel's totally chill and the Germans are decent people

Erm... what?

*trumpvoice

 

[Dachs]

Actually he was hugely outmanoeuvred and stabbed in the back by Michael Gove.

Boris and Gove had a deal before the vote: Boris would be PM and Gove would be Chancellor. Boris went around getting the support of Tory MPs to ensure a successful bid. But unbeknownst to him, Gove had been doing the same thing. Boris has the support of ~90 MPs yesterday, and was on the verge of announcing. But Gove announced this morning, taking around half of those MPs with him. The support of pro-Leave MPs now clearly with Gove, Boris had no choice but to abandon his plans to run for leader.

Gove did other underhand things as well. For one thing, his wife "accidentally" sent an email critical of Boris to the press, instead of (presumably) to Michael Gove. Bear in mind that Gove's wife is a writer for the Daily Mail, so it's not like she isn't media savvy.

But perhaps more damningly is that Gove was sent a copy of the Telegraph article that Boris had written a couple days ago. The article was a complete disaster for Boris, as it was terribly muddled, contradictory, and poorly written. Boris himself regrets publishing it. But he gave it to Gove to check over, and Gove made a few changes himself. It seems as though Gove, had he been a more honourable man, would have recommended that Boris scrapped the article and start from scratch, rather than publish an obviously stupid article in a national newspaper, days before announcing his bid for PM. However, Gove not only gave the all clear, but actually made changes himself. Very sneaky, very dishonourable.

So yeah, the only one who comes out looking good from all of this is Theresa May, who has largely remained anonymous throughout.

Thanks! Do you have a link or three for all this, by any chance? I love "Spinners and Losers" stories.

 

[Kyriakos]

Actually he was hugely outmanoeuvred and stabbed in the back by Michael Gove.

Boris and Gove had a deal before the vote: Boris would be PM and Gove would be Chancellor. Boris went around getting the support of Tory MPs to ensure a successful bid. But unbeknownst to him, Gove had been doing the same thing. Boris has the support of ~90 MPs yesterday, and was on the verge of announcing. But Gove announced this morning, taking around half of those MPs with him. The support of pro-Leave MPs now clearly with Gove, Boris had no choice but to abandon his plans to run for leader.

Gove did other underhand things as well. For one thing, his wife "accidentally" sent an email critical of Boris to the press, instead of (presumably) to Michael Gove. Bear in mind that Gove's wife is a writer for the Daily Mail, so it's not like she isn't media savvy.

But perhaps more damningly is that Gove was sent a copy of the Telegraph article that Boris had written a couple days ago. The article was a complete disaster for Boris, as it was terribly muddled, contradictory, and poorly written. Boris himself regrets publishing it. But he gave it to Gove to check over, and Gove made a few changes himself. It seems as though Gove, had he been a more honourable man, would have recommended that Boris scrapped the article and start from scratch, rather than publish an obviously stupid article in a national newspaper, days before announcing his bid for PM. However, Gove not only gave the all clear, but actually made changes himself. Very sneaky, very dishonourable.

So yeah, the only one who comes out looking good from all of this is Theresa May, who has largely remained anonymous throughout.

Hm... Why would the Gove want to be Pm so much, moreso in this time?
Is there no chance than he reached an understanding with the Boris? (not really following this by now anyway, i dislike them both at any rate).

Although one would guess (and that isn't exactly positive) that Boris is more electable than Gove (?). (or was, anyway).

 

[Snerk]

hey man

cite your sources

Never!

 

[bathsheba666]

I've heard a bit more just earlier. I was told that the pound has recovered from its fall and that the shock to the markets around the world was just a stupid reaction. They said it doesn't make any logical sense that Britain would be weaker after leaving the EU. as Britain was paying far more into the EU then it got back, and anything the EU paid for in Britain will now come from the £8-10 billion that's saved form not being in the EU.

Get some friends who are better informed than your current lot...

 

[Sommerswerd]

No... the condemnation was for burying my head in the sand. It was stated quite clearly.

And you can bog off with the "correct" nonense. "Democracy is only for those who agree with me" indeed. Brilliant. How could one possibly object to such a sentiment.

Assuming that I am correctly surmising what "bog off" means, I will just point out that I didn't take the additional step of putting the word "correct" in quotes multiple times because I thought it would be fun to type extra symbols... but don't let that get in the way of your standard, predictable relish at getting furious with me for whatever I say. I'm always more than happy to argue with you buddy.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Assuming that I am correctly surmising what "bog off" means, I will just point out that I didn't take the additional step of putting the word "correct" in quotes multiple times because I thought it would be fun to type extra symbols... but don't let that get in the way of your standard, predictable relish at getting furious with me for whatever I say. I'm always more than happy to argue with you buddy.

"sorry"

Oh but... voting Remain would be the equivalent of not joining Star Fleet in the first place. So not really "correct" with or without quotes.

 

[Sommerswerd]

"sorry"

"Love you" too.

Oh but... voting Remain would be the equivalent of not joining Star Fleet in the first place. So not really "correct" with or without quotes.

*woooosh* went the sound of that going right over my head

I guess the point is that I recognize that I don't know enough about the UK situation to know what the best choice was. I also am cognizant of all my imbedded biases to towards thinking Remain sounds better. Lastly, as I often discuss (mostly with FarmBoy) on these threads, a persons perspective informs their ideology in many if not most cases. The people who voted Leave obviously had their reasons.

 

[Arakhor]

From the point of view of the economy, Remain was objectively the better choice. Many people chose to disregard the oceans of economic advice however.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

From the point of view of the economy, Remain was objectively the better choice. Many people chose to disregard the oceans of economic advice however.

People scraping a living on a minimum wage don't tend to give much of a crap about the economy as none of that "economic growth" ever filters down to them anyway. Life for them isn't going to change much anyway, even if they end up on the dole.

 

[qwerty25]

I've heard a bit more just earlier. I was told that the pound has recovered from its fall and that the shock to the markets around the world was just a stupid reaction. They said it doesn't make any logical sense that Britain would be weaker after leaving the EU. as Britain was paying far more into the EU then it got back, and anything the EU paid for in Britain will now come from the £8-10 billion that's saved form not being in the EU.

The pound falling isnt due to payments back and forth between the Eu and britain at all. Its from the possibilty of losing trade in the financial, tech, and other sectors.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

[Dachs]

People scraping a living on a minimum wage don't tend to give much of a crap about the economy as none of that "economic growth" ever filters down to them anyway. Life for them isn't going to change much anyway, even if they end up on the dole.

Recession objectively hurts low-wage-earners much more than it does the rich.

 

[Akka]

People scraping a living on a minimum wage don't tend to give much of a crap about the economy as none of that "economic growth" ever filters down to them anyway. Life for them isn't going to change much anyway, even if they end up on the dole.

Problem is, as I've pointed SEVERAL times in this thread, and despite the very purposeful blindness of the anti-EU, it happens that the EU is the one which attempted to protect worker's rights, and the UK is the one which always tried to block or to opt-out of them.
As such, voting "Leave" is absurdly counter-productive even on this point of view.

 

[Sommerswerd]

People scraping a living on a minimum wage don't tend to give much of a crap about the economy as none of that "economic growth" ever filters down to them anyway. Life for them isn't going to change much anyway, even if they end up on the dole.

Indeed... thus my point about perspective informing ideology.

Recession objectively hurts low-wage-earners much more than it does the rich.

Also true. The ice cold, hard, uncomfortable reality is that the rich ie "the establishment" are like "the house" in Casino terms... and the house always wins, as long as you are playing their game, by their rules.

In other words, you can't vote for revolution, you have to fight for it (as in with guns, torches, civil disobedience, etc) because voting is playing by the house rules. Voting to blow up the system, or stick it to the establishment, or punish the rich, or whatever you want to call it just doesn't work, because the house always comes out on top in the end. All you end up doing by trying to buck the system for the sake of it is hurting yourself. The rich are going to be fine regardless.

 

[Cheetah]

Luckily, someone summarized the whole charade:

 

[Arakhor]

They missed out the bit where doing the thing might not even be legal without politicians voting on the thing anyway, making the whole public vote irrelevant.

 

[innonimatu]

I guess many people must by now be regretting the fixed-term parliaments act. The only way the political scenario in the UK is going to be cleared is through a new general election.
No political leader has a majority support in this Parliament, nor can hope for one. Too many double-crossings already, too much bad blood. And I doubt it would have gotten so bad without that act - those MP now feel safe enough in their seats with the next scheduled elections years away. It seems everything the LibDem actually did turned out to be a screw-up...

I think that we're in for another novel thing in the modern UK: a monarch having to defy and act of parliament to dissolve it and call an early election - because those MP don't seem responsible enough to do it on their own initiative. Else the country won't be governable at a time when it needs a strong government: a new relation with Europe, dealing with the SNP ambitions... I do wonder if she can get away with it?

I was wrong, it looks like European politics will be more interesting than those of the USA this year.

 

[Arakhor]

I didn't think much of the Fixed-Term Act at the time and now I think it's even worse.