Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Agent327]

I can't really remember any side putting up 'reasonable arguments'. But that's neither here nor there now. What surprises me most is that the Brexiteers apparently had no plan whatsoever in case they won. (Boris Johnson has opted for a personal Brexit strategy, but UKIP seems not to have gotten beyond 'Independence Day' celebrations.) UKIP's Nigel Farage, when asked if he could promise the saved hundreds of millions pounds a week going to the EU now being spent on the NHS (one of those reasonable arguments, I presume), said: "No, we can't guarantee that."

Anyway, i am not an expert on Croatia, yet at the time of the war it was very widespread info that they were backed both financially and militarily (albeit in some covert fashion) by Austria-Germany.

Yes, best not mention the arms embargo in force... Any weapons acquired by non-Serbians (who basically controlled the former Yugo military) would be from the black market. The only dubious thing in the Yugoslavia breakup wars as concerns Germany might have been their quite early recognition of an independent Croatia. So far as actual facts go, that is.

 

[luiz]

I really feel sorry for the 48% of the Britons who voted to remain and yet will become poorer and lose access to the enormous benefits of being in the EU due to the stupid and / or manipulated 52% who voted Leave.

Kind of reminds me of the Brazilian presidential election of 2014, which was also decided by such small margin. The roughly 49%¨of voters who chose the opposition knew that the country was completely broke, that the Workers' Party stupidity and unprecedented corruption were brewing a recession of massive proportions; and yet the 51% of idiots in the electorate made us stick with the evil witch Dilma. Two weeks after the election most of those imbeciles already regretted their decision, Dilma became the most unpopular president in history, and ended up impeached after a painful process.

So we did manage to defeat the forces of stupidity eventually, even if at great cost and too late to avoid a full-scale economic depression. I wonder if reasonable Brits will achieve the same.

 

[Akka]

Michel Rocard, a previous prime minister and left-wing politician, died yesterday.
He was a proponent of a more integrated Europe, with more democracy, a more just society (he introduced minimal welfare benefit and reform of the financial and welfare system in France), and not coincidentally, he just two years ago asked for the UK to get out of Europe before destroying it.
Not surprisingly, his comment underlines the same things that many have noticed and that I have emphatically repeated here - about how the UK is basically responsible for most of the problems it blames on Europe - and I fully agrees with his point.

So we did manage to defeat the forces of stupidity eventually, even if at great cost and too late to avoid a full-scale economic depression. I wonder if reasonable Brits will achieve the same.

I hope not. Europe, if it survives this crisis, will be MUCH better in the end without the constant tripping roadblock which constantly prevented anything from being correctly done.

 

[Mouthwash]

If.

 

[Takhisis]

Sir, is that a gauntlet you've just thrown?

 

[Akka]

Well, barely more than one week into the Brexit, and we can already see the benefit to the freedom and to worker's rights against big money that getting out of the evil EU can bring to the people : Osborne is looking at starting a tax-heaven-like dumping to keep investment from going out, with people worrying that beginning such a tax war against EU is wise. And the Bank of England is considering the reduction of banks' safety net (you know, the thing that was put after the 2008 crisis so that states stopped keeping banks afloat with taxpayers money).

Good that we have some enlightened minds here that wisely recognize EU as being the true threat to workers and social policies, instead of a ton of independant countries trying to outcompete each others, like fools warned !

 

[trader/warrior]

I don't think we should derail this tread to a discussion on the wars in former Yugoslavia. But to start with, you can only have a civil war inf the parties have the capability to wage war, and the expectation to be recognized as independent countries. Several leading member states of the EU were not neutral, in providing those things to some of the parties.

But how did the existence, or not, of the EU influence all this? Honest question, I don't remember much of the Yugoslavian wars, but I doubt not having the EU around would have exactly lead to more european neutrality in the whole situation (reminds me of the classic "there's not world-peace therefore the UN is useless" argument). It's not like the EU has control over members foreign policy, though I guess you can take it as an argument that it should be even more controlling in that regard. Else we can add not preventing European participation in the Iraq wars etc. to the list of EU grievances.

 

[Mise]

Well, barely more than one week into the Brexit, and we can already see the benefit to the freedom and to worker's rights against big money that getting out of the evil EU can bring to the people : Osborne is looking at starting a tax-heaven-like dumping to keep investment from going out, with people worrying that beginning such a tax war against EU is wise. And the Bank of England is considering the reduction of banks' safety net (you know, the thing that was put after the 2008 crisis so that states stopped keeping banks afloat with taxpayers money).

Good that we have some enlightened minds here that wisely recognize EU as being the true threat to workers and social policies, instead of a ton of independant countries trying to outcompete each others, like fools warned !

The worst part is, such a big loss of corporation tax income for the government will surely be made up by even more cuts to welfare, education, and the NHS.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

So, the money the UK saves from EU contributions will now go into tax cuts for corps.
Probably the single most predictable thing about this farce.
But for people that are worried about "sovereignty" that's just the price of freedom.

 

[Snerk]

So Farage resigns too now. Brexit leadership ranks is thinning out to say the least.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/nigel-farage-resigns-as-ukip-leader

 

[Arakhor]

So, the money the UK saves from EU contributions will now go into tax cuts for corps. Probably the single most predictable thing about this farce.

If that wasn't so tragic, that would be hilarious.

 

[Akka]

But how did the existence, or not, of the EU influence all this? Honest question, I don't remember much of the Yugoslavian wars, but I doubt not having the EU around would have exactly lead to more european neutrality in the whole situation (reminds me of the classic "there's not world-peace therefore the UN is useless" argument). It's not like the EU has control over members foreign policy, though I guess you can take it as an argument that it should be even more controlling in that regard. Else we can add not preventing European participation in the Iraq wars etc. to the list of EU grievances.

EU had nothing to do with Yugoslavia, you're just witnessing the rabid buffoons of the forums trying to grasp at straws to find reason to blame it.
They were the same clowns who celebrated the UK's vote as "a country liberating itself from the yoke of the EU" before quieting down when it became more apparent that what they accused the EU of, was actually stemming from the UK (making all their celebration and rhetoric of liberation look increasingly stupid and ignorant).

 

[FriendlyFire]

EU had nothing to do with Yugoslavia, you're just witnessing the rabid buffoons of the forums trying to grasp at straws to find reason to blame it.
They were the same clowns who celebrated the UK's vote as "a country liberating itself from the yoke of the EU" before quieting down when it became more apparent that what they accused the EU of, was actually stemming from the UK (making all their celebration and rhetoric of liberation look increasingly stupid and ignorant).

Its the EU fault for Not intervening
and its the EU fault for intervening

Ironically our Greek friends helped block sanctions, to prevent the EU from intervening in the conflict.
In the end the civil war started anyways

EC's internal squabbling. On the one side, Britain and France, backed initially by the U. S., were determined to keep the Yugoslav federation intact, ignoring the fact that the Yugoslav concept was merely a cover for Serbia's ambitions. On the other, Germany pushed for immediate recognition of Croatia and Slovenia.

Moreover, two members of the EC have been openly obstructive. Greece has become a trusted ally of Serbia, helping to break the sanctions on Belgrade and blocking recognition of Macedonia which, according to Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic, should not be allowed to get in the way of a common border between Serbia and Greece

The current approach of appeasement flies in the face of a range of such international conventions as the U.N. Charter

 

[luiz]

So Farage resigns too now. Brexit leadership ranks is thinning out to say the least.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/nigel-farage-resigns-as-ukip-leader

Wow, what???

What a cowardly douche.

 

[luiz]

I hope not. Europe, if it survives this crisis, will be MUCH better in the end without the constant tripping roadblock which constantly prevented anything from being correctly done.

I agree for the EU now the best thing is to push for the UK to leave as quickly as possible. But I can't help but feeling sorry for the nearly 50% of Brits who voted sensibly and are being dragged to this sh*t storm against their wishes.

I know first-hand how it feels when a slim majority votes to step into the abyss.

 

[Arakhor]

So Farage resigns too now. Brexit leadership ranks is thinning out to say the least.

It remains to be seen if he is "pressured" to return like in May 2015. Then again, he and UKIP do seem to have an unhealthy relationship.

 

[Kyriakos]

EU had nothing to do with Yugoslavia, you're just witnessing the rabid buffoons of the forums trying to grasp at straws to find reason to blame it.
They were the same clowns who celebrated the UK's vote as "a country liberating itself from the yoke of the EU" before quieting down when it became more apparent that what they accused the EU of, was actually stemming from the UK (making all their celebration and rhetoric of liberation look increasingly stupid and ignorant).

Pace yourself, m8. I am surprised you aren't banned yet with the constant language against others.
Moreover better realise you don't matter at all, what will happen has no connection to your own views, so either you try to cheer for the Eu or not, no one cares. A forum is there to discuss, not be angry.

 

[Ajidica]

So Farage resigns too now. Brexit leadership ranks is thinning out to say the least.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/nigel-farage-resigns-as-ukip-leader

So which parties emerged from the Brexit vote with their leadership intact? The SNP and LibDems?

 

[Arakhor]

And Labour (so far). If anything, the SNP came out of the affair better off, as this dramatically strengthens their hand for another independence referendum.

 

[Snerk]

So which parties emerged from the Brexit vote with their leadership intact? The SNP and LibDems?

Well Corbyn is still at his Labour post. But not sure for how long.