Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Traitorfish]

There's serious discussions about Scotland issuing its own EU-friendly passports to British citizens resident in Scotland, essentially retaining the free movement zone north of the wall. This would effectively devolve control over European immigration to Hollyrood, which the bureaucratic wendigo in Westminster is naturally reluctant to permit, but it may end up being the compromise that staves off IndyRef2 for... Well, however long until the English decide to ram the country into a brick wall again.

 

[Takhisis]

And issuing their own NI numbers? That'd mean the NI effectively splitting off.

Of course, there's a user called ‘Wings over the haggis’ over there at the Scotsman, so I'm quite inclined to believe quite a lot of things.

 

[FriendlyFire]

The Leak was not a government document but from a privite NGO which is pro-remain and was for internal discussions
There is probably a core of thruth withing it, as the Leavers are currently still trying to figure out what kind of Brexit that they want. Both options seem to be unpalatiable Hard brexit risk economy, while soft brexit risk a political backlash

And with the failure, well confusing attempt to sign a FTA with India
I have a feeling that this is not going to end well.

Leaked ‘Brexit’ Memo Says U.K. Is Unsure How to Proceed

LONDON — The government of Britain could need six more months to settle on a plan for negotiating the country’s exit from the European Union and an extra 30,000 civil servants to deal with the complexities of the task, at least according to a memo of uncertain parentage leaked to The Times of London on Tuesday.

The office of Prime Minister Theresa May poured cold water on the memo, denying reports that it was prepared for the government. “This unsolicited document has nothing to do with the government at all,” a spokesman said in a statement. “It was produced by an individual from an external accountancy firm. It has no authority, and we don’t recognize any of the claims it makes.”

According to The Guardian, the memo was “understood” to have been written by a consultant at Deloitte and was unsolicited by the government.

Mark Smith, a spokesman for Deloitte, confirmed that, saying later: “This was a note intended primarily for internal audiences. It was not commissioned by the Cabinet Office, nor any other government department, and represents a view of the task facing Whitehall. This work was conducted without access to No. 10 or input from any other government departments.”

But the memo to a large extent said what is widely understood: The government has not yet finished its internal debate on what kind of relationship it wants with the European Union, nor has it set its priorities for any negotiation; and the cabinet remains divided between those favoring as clean a break with Brussels as possible and those who want to preserve duty-free access to the huge European market.

Having been a member of the European Union for more than 40 years, Britain had no need for trade negotiators and clearly needs to hire more, and quickly; any deal will be legally intricate.

Give budget cuts and computerization, the Civil Service is reported to be at its smallest since World War II, some 400,000.

“It’s a problem, since we haven’t negotiated at an international level since 1973,” he said.

According to the memo, various government departments are working on more than 500 projects related to Brexit, which is more than they can currently handle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/w...mo.html&eventName=Watching-article-click&_r=0

 

[Kyriakos]

There's serious discussions about Scotland issuing its own EU-friendly passports to British citizens resident in Scotland, essentially retaining the free movement zone north of the wall. This would effectively devolve control over European immigration to Hollyrood, which the bureaucratic wendigo in Westminster is naturally reluctant to permit, but it may end up being the compromise that staves off IndyRef2 for... Well, however long until the English decide to ram the country into a brick wall again.

Are you sure that Spain will allow that? Given it has even more notable issues with its own break-away republics.

 

[EnglishEdward]

There apparently is such a thing as direct EU citizenship. This was traditionally used for people with parents
of different nationalities that were born in different counties e.g. Eurocrat children. e.g. Shall I be French like
Daddy or Italian like Mummy or Belgian where I was born, never mind I will just be a European Union citizen.

I prefer the rumour that the EU is thinking of letting UK citizens individually apply for such EU Citizenship.

That sounds like a good idea.

Any of the 48% who don't really like and can not abide a Brexited UK could consider trying their luck in Poland.

 

[EnglishEdward]

There's serious discussions about Scotland issuing its own EU-friendly passports to British citizens resident in Scotland, essentially retaining the free movement zone north of the wall. This would effectively devolve control over European immigration to Hollyrood, which the bureaucratic wendigo in Westminster is naturally reluctant to permit, but it may end up being the compromise that staves off IndyRef2 for... Well, however long until the English decide to ram the country into a brick wall again.

As the SNP plan is for submission to Brussells and Strasbourg rather than to London,
the use of "Indy" in "IndyRef2" is misleading as it has nothing to do with independence.

I'd respect the Scots a lot more if they were to go for complete political independence.

 

[JohannaK]

Such thing is veritably a pipedream.

 

[Arakhor]

Any of the 48% who don't really like and can not abide a Brexited UK could consider trying their luck in Poland.

What has Poland done to be singled out by you? There are 26 other countries in the EU, you know.

As the SNP plan is for submission to Brussells and Strasbourg rather than to London,the use of "Indy" in "IndyRef2" is misleading as it has nothing to do with independence.

Well, of course it is. It's to do with "the will of the people" and finding their own way in the world. Just because it's not your will (or mine, for that matter) doesn't mean it's invalid.

 

[EnglishEdward]

What has Poland done to be singled out by you? There are 26 other countries in the EU, you know.

Just providing an example. Happy for you to select from those 37 your alternative home from and unbearable Brexited home.

 

[Takhisis]

I'd respect the Scots a lot more if they were to go for complete political independence.

Such as, for example, not letting England outvote them in any matter, given that for a few decades now it's been ever more patently obvious that both countries' political aims are opposite?

 

[Arakhor]

Just providing an example. Happy for you to select from those 37 your alternative home from and unbearable Brexited home.

Having a European passport comes in very handy when travelling to the Continent. You may not have noticed.

 

[Traitorfish]

As the SNP plan is for submission to Brussells and Strasbourg rather than to London,
the use of "Indy" in "IndyRef2" is misleading as it has nothing to do with independence.

Would you prefer "PissOffEnglandRef2"?

 

[JohannaK]

I actually like it better. Sounds more authentically Scottish.

 

[Traitorfish]

It could be more authentic, but that wouldn't get past the autocensor.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Would you prefer "PissOffEnglandRef2"?

Frankly yes, better than a lie about independence.

I am more concerned that the Scots should not delude themselves.

Cheering Robert the Bruce and where's my claymore is all very well, but would the EU treat you well or like a northern Greece?


And this current arrangement with Scotland being subordinate to the UK as a whole which is subordinate to the EU, is pointless.

For instance we can not delegate law making to Sotland when that is not really ours to delegate being held by the EU.

As England is the majority UK, we get the blame; but that hides a structural problem in multiply delegated tiers of government.

 

[Traitorfish]

Frankly yes, better than a lie about independence.

I am more concerned that the Scots should not delude themselves.

What if we write it on the side of the bus, will that make it true?

 

[Arakhor]

Frankly yes, better than a lie about independence.

Yes, everyone involved is "lying" about wanting independence because they are "dressing it up" by saying that they still want to remain in Europe. There's another thing you may not have noticed - not everyone hates Europe as much as you seem to do.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Traitorfish, participation and submission to the European regime is not the same
as independence and writing things on the side of buses has nothing to do it.


Arakhor; I don't hate Europe and neither do most of those others who voted Leave.

Traitorfish; I value democratic self determination higher than the ever closer union European
pipedream and that is why I believe that if the Scots want self determination they should have it.

 

[Verbose]

There apparently is such a thing as direct EU citizenship. This was traditionally used for people with parents
of different nationalities that were born in different counties e.g. Eurocrat children. e.g. Shall I be French like
Daddy or Italian like Mummy or Belgian where I was born, never mind I will just be a European Union citizen.

No, that's ANOTHER myth about the EU.

The EU at an aggregate level CANNOT provide citizenship. You're either a citizen of a member state, or no citizen at all. And if anyone offers you a non-national EU citizenship, don't pay, it's a scam. (It's why Malta has made it a business to sell Maltese citizenships internationally. And funnily enough — considering the crap-storm kicked up over immigration by Hungary — so does Hungary. It costs you €250k, so it's not for everybody of course. But that's the apparently Hungarian going rate for dumping on its own principles.)

But any idea about a general non-national EU citizenship it is a myth consistent with the idea that the EU is something other that it is, which is a union of sovereign nation states that have clubbed together. It's a myth that goes directly to the root of sovereignty, IF the EU could even do a thing like that. Which is why that particular myth it's floated as a Real Thing.

The truth of international politics is that we all still have no rights and freedoms that are now provided by our respective states. The EU can only do so by extension of national sovereignty in cooperation between member states. If you have no national citizenship, in your own country you might by courtesy get freedoms and protections extended to you, but internationally you are a non-person, with no real rights.

 

[Verbose]

DP…. sorry