Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Leoreth]

To be honest that is not simply prejudice, it is a direct result of the actual behavior of a very large number of people from that subset...

Whatever the reason is, this sounds like you're in support of considering them a separate group.

 

[Old Hippy]

Whatever the reason is, this sounds like you're in support of considering them a separate group.

that highlights one problem of having a civilised policy debate on immigration, it leaves open the far right to harness fear and hate for political gain, as they point out how so fundamentally wrong and not like us (tamed down)with us being Human and them being a sub-set of that, while saying it's not actually a prejudice.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Really? The only sensible solution I can see would be sending the EU immigrants in our prisons back to their own countries to serve their time there. Most of them don't even want to remain here after they have finished their sentences anyway. But sending them back is not something the EU would approve of.

Really ?
I guess its the EU Fault again ?
EU whined and complained, God forbid that the UK get whined at by the EU

Expulsion of Romani people from France

In July 2010, the Government of France initiated a programme to repatriate thousands of Romanian and Bulgarian Romani, as part of a crackdown on allegedly illegal camps in the country.[1] Although Bulgarian and Romanian citizens have the right to enter France without a visa because their countries of origin are in the European Union, under French immigration rules, they must have work or residency permits if they wish to stay longer than three months.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Romani_people_from_France

 

[Arwon]

I would have thought there were enough Australians in the UK for them to rate a mention in jail figures. I mean there's 621 Britons in Australian jails, the 4th biggest population after Australians, New Zealanders and Vietnamese... There's about 125k Australians in the UK compared to about 1.2 million Brits in Australia. If we were getting imprisoned at the same rate in the UK there should be about 60 Australians in prisons.

Maybe the British are just more prone to criminality.

 

[Arakhor]

Maybe the British are just more prone to criminality.

Well, naturally. That's how Australia started after all.

 

[innonimatu]

Really ?
I guess its the EU Fault again ?
EU whined and complained, God forbid that the UK get whined at by the EU

Mais la France c'est la France...

 

[FriendlyFire]

How is the UK going to get access to the EU without paying monies and without free movement ?
They keep peddling this, idea but how are they going to actually deliver.

Cant the UK just deport all the Poles and Romanians like the rest of the EU dose, and just stay in the EU. The EU will get to whine about it and UK declares it as a victory and everyone wins. (except for Poland and Romania)

David Davis accused of having no plan for Brexit

The secretary of state for exiting the EU has been accused of appearing before parliament without any details of how the government is planning to embark on Brexit negotiations.

“This government is looking at every option but the simple truth is that if a requirement of membership is giving up control of our borders, I think that makes it very improbable.”

He said his priority was “to build a national consensus” around the UK

He also said he was confident the UK would not need to make trade-offs suggested by critics, but instead could control immigration and retain free trade. One idea being considered is ensuing that EU citizens can only come to Britain if they can prove they have a job offer.

The shadow foreign secretary, Emily Thornberry, who leads for Labour on Brexit, attacked Davis for failing to explain how his government was hoping to win such concessions, arguing “his positive vision is just a pipe dream”.

Former shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper dismissed Davis’s words as an “astonishingly empty statement” with “no plan, no sense of grip, no detail”.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...is-vows-to-build-national-consensus-on-brexit

 

[Takhisis]

I would have thought there were enough Australians in the UK for them to rate a mention in jail figures. I mean there's 621 Britons in Australian jails, the 4th biggest population after Australians, New Zealanders and Vietnamese... There's about 125k Australians in the UK compared to about 1.2 million Brits in Australia. If we were getting imprisoned at the same rate in the UK there should be about 60 Australians in prisons.

Maybe the British are just more prone to criminality.

Are you sure about your maths, (in)mate?

How is the UK going to get access to the EU without paying monies and without free movement ?
They keep peddling this, idea but how are they going to actually deliver.

If they were actually competent they wouldn't be elected public officials but civil servants.

 

[Oerdin]

How is the UK going to get access to the EU without paying monies and without free movement ?
They keep peddling this, idea but how are they going to actually deliver.

Cant the UK just deport all the Poles and Romanians like the rest of the EU dose, and just stay in the EU. The EU will get to whine about it and UK declares it as a victory and everyone wins. (except for Poland and Romania)

Oh, stop pretending it is impossible to have free trade without free movement or paying bribe money. Literally dozens and dozens of countries do it. Hell, Canada signed a free trade bill with the EU without free movement and without having to pay the EU's budget.

The UK will no longer be in the EU so it should not have to pay into the EU's budget and it should have control over its own borders. I suspect they will keep those borders largely open but it will be their choice and who they let in will be their choice. So no more welfare migrants but, yes, to employed educated people who want to net pay in to society instead of leaching off others hard work.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Oh, stop pretending it is impossible to ha e free trade without free movement or paying bribe money. Literally dozens and dozens of countries do it.

Of course it's possible, but the UK isn't going to get that.

 

[Arakhor]

So no more welfare migrants but, yes, to employed educated people who want to net pay in to society instead of leaching off others hard work.

You may be shocked to learn how hard it is for "employed educated people" from outside the EU to stay in this country.

 

[EnglishEdward]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...is-vows-to-build-national-consensus-on-brexit


The clue is in the link title "national-consensus-on-exit"

The Prime Minister was a Remainer, the majority of the UK Cabinet are Remainers.

They are clearly demanding that the Brexit plan must deliver all things for
all people, knowing full well that is impossible, as an obstructive tactic.

This charade may run for a while.

 

[Arakhor]

Well, it'll be good to see anything that the Leave campaign was promising, so yes, I'd agree that there has been a lengthy charade so far.

 

[SMcM]

Oh, stop pretending it is impossible to have free trade without free movement or paying bribe money. Literally dozens and dozens of countries do it. Hell, Canada signed a free trade bill with the EU without free movement and without having to pay the EU's budget.

They'll be particularly bitter about the irreparable damage Brexit may have caused to their dreams of political union, so even if they have to lose out slightly too, they may not offer us ideal trade terms, and they are more important to us than we are to them. We really cannot expect optimal terms.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Oh, stop pretending it is impossible to have free trade without free movement or paying bribe money. Literally dozens and dozens of countries do it. Hell, Canada signed a free trade bill with the EU without free movement and without having to pay the EU's budget.

The UK will no longer be in the EU so it should not have to pay into the EU's budget and it should have control over its own borders. I suspect they will keep those borders largely open but it will be their choice and who they let in will be their choice. So no more welfare migrants but, yes, to employed educated people who want to net pay in to society instead of leaching off others hard work.

Its been what 8 years and the EU Canada agreement has still not been signed.
Generally Any Free trade agreements are dictated by the larger party to the smaller party with the majority of the laws benefiting the larger party. Ironically its about to be torpedoed by Brexit. Looks like Canada is going to have to bent backwards if it wants its agreement as the EU is calling the shots

If UK want to be outside of the Common market. Good luck, China and Japan have made there position crystal clear what is going to happen with the UK. It will depend on the EU and if its interested in making another special deal.
While the UK is no Greece it is definitely in the weaker negotiation position. Who know maybe that will change.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Limited market access, no more passporting and no free movement could work.
Though untangling the UK economy without it imploding is going to take some doing if UK choose to take this route I doubt the EU is going to grant it favorable terms

What could the EU-Canada free trade deal tell us about Brexit?

Overall, CETA is the most comprehensive and ambitious free trade deal the EU has negotiated to date. However, it is still some way from replicating the level of access to the single market the UK currently enjoys as a member of the EU – particularly in services and financial services. Let’s take a look a bit more in detail.

First of all, trade in goods. The EU and Canada have agreed to scrap 100% of tariff lines on industrial and fisheries products
Second, public procurement European companies will be allowed to bid for public contracts in Canada
Third, CETA does not involve Canada paying into the EU budget or signing up to EU rules on the free movement of people in return for increased market access.

Now for the not-so-good stuff. Some agricultural products deemed sensitive are not covered by CETA, while for some others duty-free access will only be granted for limited quantities

UK exports of goods would need to comply with extra bureaucratic customs checks, which could raise costs particularly for those firms with complex supply chains. Furthermore, the UK would also lose its vote over the setting of EU regulations and product standards

it only grants limited services liberalisation – by no means comparable to being a member of the single market

In order to take advantage of the EU financial services ‘passport’, for instance, Canadian firms will have to establish a presence in the EU and comply with EU regulations.

the UK’s economy is a lot more integrated than Canada’s with the rest of the EU. Just think about how many Brits currently live and work in other EU member states, and vice versa. This means that any UK-EU agreement after Brexit could not be just about trade – it would inevitably need to cover other aspects. Therefore, the EU-Canada deal could only ever serve as a template the UK could build upon – certainly not as the ‘Holy Grail’ of models for post-Brexit UK-EU relations.

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/what-could-the-eu-canada-free-trade-deal-tell-us-about-brexit/

 

[EnglishEdward]

Generally Any Free trade agreements are dictated by the larger party to the smaller party with the majority of the laws benefiting the larger party.

Exactly.

While the UK is no Greece it is definitely in the weaker negotiation position.

Which is why it is best that the UK does not initiate any general negotiations.

Who know maybe that will change.

Only (if) and when the UK government invokes Article 50,
and declares a specific future independence date.

At that stage the ball is back in the EU court.

Do they want their farmers/companies to pay (WTO or
whatever) tariffs on all exports to the UK or not?

The UK government can then merely respond to whatever
sensible proposals (if any) the Europian Union make.

The reason for my inclusion of (if any) is that I don't think that
the EU is organisationally capable of agreeing anything reasonable.

Limited market access, no more passporting and no free movement could work.
Though untangling the UK economy without it imploding is going to take some doing if UK choose to take this route I doubt the EU is going to grant it favorable terms

The local issue here is that the UK government is going to have to stand up to:

(a) the City of London and the financial services sector who seem to think that
their right to have passporting of financial services transcends everything else

OR

(b) the majority who voted to Leave.

It will probably try (b) at which point, there will be great civil unrest in the UK.

 

[bathsheba666]

The UK government could also apply some intelligence and guts, and resolve instead to explain to the voters exactly how they were misled.

Yes, I can't see that one either....

 

[EnglishEdward]

The UK government could also apply some intelligence and guts, and resolve instead to explain to the voters exactly how they were misled.

Yes, I can't see that one either....

Quite so. I doubt that the UK government will ever apologise for
misleading the voters for 45 years regarding the European fiasco.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I suppose on some level it does take some guts and resolve to say to the country "we said we'd give you a referendum on the EU and abide by your decision, but actually we're going to ignore it and do what we want instead".