Such a ruling would not make all that much sense because that would mean that the Parliament could create a proxy constitution which gives itself the right to leave.
Is Britain about to leave the EU?
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Such a ruling would not make all that much sense because that would mean that the Parliament could create a proxy constitution which gives itself the right to leave.
EnglishEdward
Deity
I am aware of that interpretation. However there are other interpretations arising from the doctrine of the supremacy of
EU Law over UK law and it is unduely optimnistic to assume that your quoted interpretion would continue to hold and prevail.
In my opinion its particular validity gets eroded by the acceptance of transfer of power to the EU and by the effluxion of time.
History shows us that the entering into of customs unions by independent German states resulted in the non existence of such states,
and the southern states in the United States thought that their membership of that union remained voluntary and they could leave.
I spy a general election.
Ah well, I voted Leave as the least worse option.
EnglishEdward
Deity
Quite, but the terms of reference of the European Court require it to make
judgements in favour of ever closer union rather than in favour of common sense.
Except that which it defines itself - which I guess is what the case is about. Courts vs parliament vs pm vs referendum. The wonders of a make it up as you go along constitution.
Indeed, that might be the likely result. Either way, it seems farcical that so many people voting to restore Parliamentary sovereignty would now be upset that the High Court has ruled that Parliamentary sovereignty applies, even to Brexit itself.
Verbose
Deity
That seems actually sensible.
An advisory referendum asking too simplistic a question was always an inherently divisive instrument — never mind blunt as a hammer.
HAND
Armchair Philosopher
A good piece here by writer and leave campaigner Dreda Say Mitchell:
"For those of us who voted leave in order to ensure that it’s our MPs who make political decisions in this country, this morning’s ruling in the high court is a nice irony. I personally don’t have a problem with anyone using any democratic or legal means to achieve any political end they want. And there’s no doubt that MPs have the right to cancel Brexit if they choose to do so.
But I would advise them to use their power respectfully and wisely. The reputation of the political classes in this country is already very low, and any attempt to overturn the referendum result is likely to send it down even further with baleful consequences.
Whether it’ll make any difference in the long run is a moot point. There are powerful vested interests in the UK already at work to get the ballot overturned or render it meaningless. There are equally powerful interests in the EU itself who are willing to help them out. Personally, I wouldn’t bet against them succeeding. As the French, Dutch, Irish and Greeks have discovered, referendums in the EU are flexible friends. But that will leave a pertinent question – do votes actually count for anything in Europe these days, or are they merely glorified opinion polls?"
"For those of us who voted leave in order to ensure that it’s our MPs who make political decisions in this country, this morning’s ruling in the high court is a nice irony. I personally don’t have a problem with anyone using any democratic or legal means to achieve any political end they want. And there’s no doubt that MPs have the right to cancel Brexit if they choose to do so.
But I would advise them to use their power respectfully and wisely. The reputation of the political classes in this country is already very low, and any attempt to overturn the referendum result is likely to send it down even further with baleful consequences.
Whether it’ll make any difference in the long run is a moot point. There are powerful vested interests in the UK already at work to get the ballot overturned or render it meaningless. There are equally powerful interests in the EU itself who are willing to help them out. Personally, I wouldn’t bet against them succeeding. As the French, Dutch, Irish and Greeks have discovered, referendums in the EU are flexible friends. But that will leave a pertinent question – do votes actually count for anything in Europe these days, or are they merely glorified opinion polls?"
It is well known they do not. Look at comedy proof of that with the finnish gov going about how they would call a parliament vote to cancel anything on Greece, only to be told what to do by a german minister and then shut up.
Anyway, don't know if Britain will continue this charade of brexit or not brexit, but in either case this doesn't say anything more about the eu itself.
Meanwhile, whole countries die due to this idiocy.
HAND
Armchair Philosopher
'Matt' the cartoonist from the Telegraph got the Guy Fawkes theme too 
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She's a Tory PM who appointed BoJo. Diplomats laughed on camera when told of the scoop. Your two requirements are not met.
You need a snap election.
I cannot remember whether it was H.G. Wells or H.L. Havell who said that the Romans blundered into success after success, eventually forming an empire, and that England ahd done the same.
Actually, it does. The court is ruling in favour of parliamentary sovereignty; given that the referendum was non-binding, if there's any decision to be made it will be made by the Queen in Parliament.
'Matt' the cartoonist from the Telegraph got the Guy Fawkes theme too
Well, some cartoons are about what you read into them, of course, but it is 3rd Nov, so Guy Fawkes references won't be too far away.
Verbose
Deity
Put it to the test in a general election if the British feel uncertain.
The Brexit referendum, THAT was glorified opinion poll. If it wasn't, it should have been binding, not advisory.
How would it be put to an election, if both main parties (Labour and Tory) are officially (Labour due to leader) pro-Brexit?
The Daily Fail and the Express have decided to re-qualify for "Most Hysterical Overreaction" today. The Fail went for calling the three High Court judges "enemes of the people" (!!) and the Express opined that this new 'crisis' was as bad as any since Churchill and fighting 'em on the beaches and that yesterday "was the day that democracy died." The Telegraph 'merely' went for publishing the photos of the judges and then cast them in a (presumably sinister) blue light.
Clearly, I'm turning into a prophet.
If anyone is inciting violence now, it's certainly not Parliament or the High Court.
Clearly, I'm turning into a prophet.
If anyone is inciting violence now, it's certainly not Parliament or the High Court.Verbose
Deity
I think you've hit the nail on its head.
If you're right, the UK CANNOT handle a question like Brexit through ordinary political processes and channels.
If it can't, it can't, but then if it still goes through with it through channels OTHER than the ordinary democratic and parliamentary ones, then it has joined the ranks of the new illiberal democracies, like Hungary and what Poland seems to be turning into — effectively winner-takes-all-once dictatorships of simple majorities.
The REAL clue if this will happen in the UK is IF the recent ruling by the judiciary branch of government can be ignored by the executive (government), while it on its own accord decides it also doesn't have to involve the legislative branch (parliament) either.
In the end it turned out to be shockingly easy for the executive branch to short-circuit the legislative branch in Hungary — which has a written constitution of the German model, i.e. THE strongest safeguard for an independent judiciary in any European system. If Hungary can do it (and it's extremely dangerous precisely because it now has produced a blueprint for how to kill liberal democracy and rule-of-law in the EU, and in a "hardest case"-setting) then the UK is toast, since its constitutional arrangements ARE on the soft side by comparison — provided the May government is actually willing to go through with it.
The question of course also seems to be if May et al. in the British government even senses the dangers involved in the situation? The way things look, they might bumble the UK out of democracy-as-we-know-it more or less by accident over Brexit..
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^So, no penalties for being illiberal or anti-legislative autonomy in the Eu. Looks like the dream ended with the 2003 countries massively joining.
I have to suppose that at least in the UK there is a much more firm sense of democracy, so i am not seeing them destroying the distinction of powers as easily.
I have to suppose that at least in the UK there is a much more firm sense of democracy, so i am not seeing them destroying the distinction of powers as easily.
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