Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Traitorfish]

Good fiscal sense is hardly a model of good fiscal sense.

I mean, there's a point where you're not stimulating the economy, you're just pissing money away on cosplaying the British Empire.

I doubt a new UK would change either its name, or even flag (though the flag is indeed outdated at such a scenario ^^ ).

I suppose that NI might leave too if it comes to that. But Wales won't go anywhere. Nor will the taken territories of the SW.

The name and flag aren't going to change because Scotland leaves, that's for sure. Maybe not even if Northern Ireland leaves. That would acknowledge that some sort of profound constitutional change has occurred, and while the English may have been willing to concede that two hundred years ago, when the accumulation of new flags and titles implied at least some measure of prestige for themselves, they're unlikely to extend the pleasure to the Scots or Irish today, when all the prestige will be flowing away from them and towards the breakaways.

I can't say I blame them; it's not as if one-tenth of the country can reasonably expect to dictate to the rest what it should be called or what flags the Guardian should publish anxious thinkpieces about, let alone if they're not even planning to stick around to live with it. But, there is a risk that it becomes an embarrassment, and while the English capacity for national embarrassment is high- that sounds like an insult but it's really a complement, the English are for the most part admirably unpretentious about their national identity- it may be found to have limits.

 

[Samson]

For maximum lulz, England should pull Greece and have everyone refer to Scotland as Former United Kingdom's DIstrict of Scotland

There must be an acronym that would win the vote for them, I will vote for FUK....

 

[EnglishEdward]

I am not sure that I agree with you Traitorfish. It seems to me that the modern English have less tolerance for the
absurdity of pomp and ceremony than they used to. I don't think that it will be like George III being introduced with
the title of King of France (until 1815) despite Mary I losing Calais in 1558. We would cheerfully add a small dragon to
Saint George's Cross. The Welsh could say they are on the flag we'd say we celebrate St George slaying the dragon.

 

[JohannaK]

What about Northern Ireland?

 

[Arwon]

Scotland needs jobs and investment more than immigration right now.

Scotland already has a bad problem of a large proportion of her population leaving in as young adults to work in England or abroad, then returning home to Scotland to retire. This dramatically jacks up the social services bill that Scotland has to cover without those who are benefiting paying into the system from their earlier corresponding years of working.

Adding more immigrants won't solve this problem. Scotland/UK needs to figure out how to boot the industry up there. The SNP pegged a lot of their hopes on the North Sea oil, however that's turned out to be a dead end with job growth and wealth creation drying up at an alarming rate.

It appears to me that becoming a refuge for England-located businesses and industries reliant on the EU would fit that bill.

 

[EnglishEdward]

It appears to me that becoming a refuge for England-located businesses and industries reliant on the EU would fit that bill.

Possibily, but a requirement for that is perceived stability.

As it is unclear on what terms Scotland would leave the UK, whether it would join the EU, be a member of the EEA like Norway
or something else and even what currency (currencies) they would use and who would make up the government post independence;
I rather think that most English busineses would remain in England or prefer better known tax havens such as Eire or Luxembourg.

 

[Traitorfish]

I am not sure that I agree with you Traitorfish. It seems to me that the modern English have less tolerance for the absurdity of pomp and ceremony than they used to. I don't think that it will be like George III being introduced with
the title of King of France (until 1815) despite Mary I losing Calais in 1558.

It's less a question of pomp and more of self-image. Ireland and Scotland have been peripheral to the English imagination for, really, the whole history of the Union; why would that change just because we leave?

The English accepted the change in styles that accompanied the Union because of it implied a great enough enhancement of prestige and influence to overcome the inertia of tradition, especially given that, at that time, the Cross wasn't deeply embedded in English traditions, and indeed the whole idea of national flags or even of nation-states was still a novelty; the state and the trappings of state were still conceptually attached to the person of the monarch, and the monarch wasn't changed in 1707 or 1800, just made grander and more glorious. Today, there's no prestige to be found in altering the paraphernalia of state in deference to Celtic secession, and the sort of paraphernalia that the English once wore rather lightly now carries centuries of tradition and familiarity. To accept a reduced flag or name would be to accept reduced national prestige, and for what reason, to flatter a few mad Picts? That's a hard case to make.

We would cheerfully add a small dragon to Saint George's Cross. The Welsh could say they are on the flag we'd say we celebrate St George slaying the dragon.

Welk, the red dragon is supposed to be the embodiment of the Welsh as a people, so that might prove to be some contentiously mixed symbolism.

 

[JohannaK]

I'd say that only makes the proposed design better. "Here in the flag is the Welsh dragon, representing the people of Wales, but which to English people is the dragon slain by St George."

 

[Kyriakos]

Does Wales get a lot of foreigners?

 

[Lohrenswald]

I liked this proposal lol

Spoiler :

So like, black is apparantly at some level asociated with the welsh

 

[Kyriakos]

Very adophian

 

[JohannaK]

The cross of St David is yellow on black, I believe. On the other hand, the diagonals should be fully red, since the white is for St Andrew and the red for St Patrick's cross, representing Ireland.

 

[Takhisis]

I never said it was from the Telegraph.
It was actually from the Scottish Herald
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/..._poll_shows_further_backing_for_independence/

Then why did you link to the Telegraph?

Scotland needs jobs and investment more than immigration right now.

Scotland already has a bad problem of a large proportion of her population leaving in as young adults to work in England or abroad, then returning home to Scotland to retire. This dramatically jacks up the social services bill that Scotland has to cover without those who are benefiting paying into the system from their earlier corresponding years of working.

So either stop emigration or replace with new immigrants.

Adding more immigrants won't solve this problem. Scotland/UK needs to figure out how to boot the industry up there. The SNP pegged a lot of their hopes on the North Sea oil, however that's turned out to be a dead end with job growth and wealth creation drying up at an alarming rate.

If you bet on wind power, stop paying the US to keep nuclear weapons Scotland frankly doesn't need unless it wants to emulate North Korea and extort things from its neighbours with yearly incidents, and, well, actually have Scotland spend its budget by itself and live within its own means, as TF says, rather than just spend a sum granted yearly from whatever London collects, it's not that inviable. How much oil do Denmark and Finland have?

Does Wales get a lot of foreigners?

Would you like to guess what the word ‘Welsh’ originally meant?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I think if Scotland votes to leave the UK then the rest of the UK should have another referendum on whether or not they still want to leave the EU, given that circumstances will have changed so dramatically since the first vote. Then if that vote goes the other way, Scotland could have another referendum to see if they want to re-join the UK again. And we can just go on having referenda every year for the rest of time.

 

[Takhisis]

Well, that does sound like a Monty Python sketch. The basic premise of guaranteeing something to somebody in exchange for something of value and then revealing that it belongs to somebody else is a staple of many caper films. And also what is called fraud in criminal law in real life.

 

[W|M]

Welk, the red dragon is supposed to be the embodiment of the Welsh as a people, so that might prove to be some contentiously mixed symbolism.

The English did add ''Rebellious Scots to crush'' to the British national anthem, so it's not like they're new to doing things like this

 

[Kyriakos]

The English did add ''Rebellious Scots to crush'' to the British national anthem, so it's not like they're new to doing things like this

Bect actor in that movie, and iirc he is scottish ^^

 

[Kyriakos]

I think if Scotland votes to leave the UK then the rest of the UK should have another referendum on whether or not they still want to leave the EU, given that circumstances will have changed so dramatically since the first vote. Then if that vote goes the other way, Scotland could have another referendum to see if they want to re-join the UK again. And we can just go on having referenda every year for the rest of time.

England itself is largely anti-Eu, and voted so in the referendum, so if Scotland leaves... remaining UK won't likely be majority pro-Eu.

 

[Kyriakos]

I liked this proposal lol

Spoiler :

So like, black is apparantly at some level asociated with the welsh

I think the black is due to that state in SW tip of the Great Britain island. Cornwall:

 

[JohannaK]

While I favour the Welsh cross for the black, it seems even better to kill two flags with one colour.