Is China already the world's biggest economy?

[Commodore]

The American empire (yes, that's what we are) will finally fall. Whether China replaces us or not is hard to tell. Personally I'd vote for Kahzakstan. I feel sorry for them after Borat and it would serve us right if they kicked our ass next.

If you hate the US so much, no one is stopping you from leaving. Being critical of the government or our society is one thing, but I am getting a little sick and tired of seeing people actively hoping for the destruction or some other sort of "humbling" of the US, even when it is said in jest.

I mean really, in the grand scheme of things, what has the US done that is sooooo absolutely terrible that warrants this "ass-kicking" you speak of?

 

[El_Machinae]

On the international front, it was probably the wanton hypocrisy during the Cold War. Nowadays, I'd have to say most of the resentment comes from the refusal to prevent their industrialists from being exploitative, by allowing companies to have few-to-no ethical obligations when operating outside their soil.

I mean, not that I agree. It's just where a lot of the resentment comes from. Many countries are vastly worse, or would be if they could. But, you tend to notice the one who's bullying you the most.

 

[Commodore]

On the international front, it was probably the wanton hypocrisy during the Cold War. Nowadays, I'd have to say most of the resentment comes from the refusal to prevent their industrialists from being exploitative, by allowing companies to have few-to-no ethical obligations when operating outside their soil.

I mean, not that I agree. It's just where a lot of the resentment comes from. Many countries are vastly worse, or would be if they could. But, you tend to notice the one who's bullying you the most.

And that's fine. I can accept criticism of my nation from other citizens and foreigners. But to wish for a nation's destruction just because of some hiccups in human rights policy? That is just....wow.

 

[Farm Boy]

Same ancient evils as always Commodore.

 

[Pangur Bán]

If you hate the US so much, no one is stopping you from leaving. Being critical of the government or our society is one thing, but I am getting a little sick and tired of seeing people actively hoping for the destruction or some other sort of "humbling" of the US, even when it is said in jest.

I mean really, in the grand scheme of things, what has the US done that is sooooo absolutely terrible that warrants this "ass-kicking" you speak of?

The US firebombed hundreds of thousands of Germans and Japanese civilians; it is the only country to have used nuclear weapons, doing so against civilian targets; the US dropped napalm on thousands of Vietnamese, overthrew multiple democracies because their populations threatened to go commie; ringed the Middle East with dictatorships; etc. Nearly half the Arab world recently got democracy, but then 1/3rd of the Arab world was deprived of democracy by a US-backed military regime. While your government's allies deprived 1/3rd of the Arab world of democracy just the other year, another ally is performing ethnic cleansing on Palestinians and killing children on beaches, another got to crush its democratic uprising with US support in return for Arab league's support against Libya. Your power is used to enforce an international economic system that keeps billions of people in extreme poverty for the benefit and security of very few. All this is distinct from cultural grievances and economic grievances.

But the world is a big bad place and always has been. For Westerners I agree that American hegemony is far better than Russian or Chinese hegemony, even than European hegemony maybe. I cannot envisage a realistic power on this planet that would behave well, that's just not how power works. And in that context, I have to acknowledge that I'm a Westerner, I am protected by US arms and enriched by US power. I am not ignorant of these facts. But partly for that reason and partly for my wish for human good and a more equal world, I worry about the way America is going, from the decline of democracy in the country, growing inequality, growing lack of accountability in its ruling class, and the ignorance of the population about how it is being messed over, and so forth.

Americans should be informed and critical about how their government behaves abroad. Americans who defend their government and elite in the name of patriotism might as well be defending the Russians or Chinese. You live in a democracy and have power to hold your elite to account; as hard as it is to exercise that power, it doesn't get any easier by saying 'shut up, do what your betters tell you ... or else I'll treat you like a traitor'.

 

[Commodore]

Americans should be informed and critical about how their government behaves abroad. Americans who defend their government and elite in the name of patriotism might as well be defending the Russians or Chinese. You live in a democracy and have power to hold your elite to account; as hard as it is to exercise that power, it doesn't get any easier by saying 'shut up, do what your betters tell you ... or else I'll treat you like a traitor'.

I have already said I have no problem with criticism of the US, as I have partaken in some pretty heavy criticism of US government and society myself. However, I am seeing an increasing number of comments (not here, but elsewhere both online and in real life) from both US citizens and foreigners calling for the US to either be destroyed or humbled in some humiliating way. That is something I just cannot abide.

To me, calling for the destruction of a nation is never justified no matter what. Take North Korea for example. That is probably the most horrific currently active regime right now. Do I advocate for a new government in North Korea? Yes. Would I ever call for the complete destruction of the nation of North Korea simply because their government is monstrous? Never.

 

[Tahuti]

overthrew multiple democracies because their populations threatened to go commie

Democracy is not universally applicable, countrary to what often America itself often claims. Early Medieval Western polities allowed for the election of kings by its entire free population. A democratic system was in place among Indian cultures as well very long ago (like thousands of years). Nordic countries had some democratic elements as well before their conversion to Christianity. Eventually, Christianity was all but broken in the Western world

Rule of law and democracy aren't an product of the Enlightenment, though it has helped raised awareness: They are the product of hundreds of years of evolution. In more countries than not, it has never went through this evolution. So overthrowing democracy in one country by another democracy is not necessarily an act of hypocrisy; In Western and Indic countries, democracy is a more natural fit in say the Arab or much of the third world, with Far-Eastern countries like Japan appearing to be rather malleble towards democracy despite lack of a long democratic tradition.

Besides, democracy is not the sole template of Western governance, it is rule of law. Democracy is an element of it, but so are private property rights, which serves as a check on democracy and vice versa. Since commies actively threaten property rights, it is simply a defence of the rule of law to shutdown democracy, just like a state under rule of law should be able to temporarily suspend property rights for some corporations to prevent corporate proxy rule.

But the world is a big bad place and always has been. For Westerners I agree that American hegemony is far better than Russian or Chinese hegemony, even than European hegemony maybe.

I would dispute that in the case of Europe. European countries had to be rebuilt after WWII and allowed the US to help, increasing its influence over nearly every non-Soviet dominated countries. We now live in a period of dangerous complacency, under the umbrella of the US. Since Russia ceased to be threat (despite what naysayers say about Ukraine) since the end of the Cold War, American influence over Western European polities is not exactly in our best interests anymore.

 

[LoneRebel]

But the world is a big bad place and always has been. For Westerners I agree that American hegemony is far better than Russian or Chinese hegemony, even than European hegemony maybe. I cannot envisage a realistic power on this planet that would behave well, that's just not how power works.

As a non-Westerner, I submit that at the present time, American (and, if such a thing were possible, European) hegemony would also be better for non-Westerners than Russian or Chinese hegemony. The signs from Russian and Chinese behavior in recent years have not been encouraging. People who expect either of those countries to be a better-behaved superpower than the US are going to be disappointed. When there are no perfect options, we just have to choose the least bad one. That's just how the world works sometimes.

Tl;dr: the USA as a hegemon hasn't always been very good, but the other viable candidates at the moment are even worse.

 

[caketastydelish]

If you hate the US so much, no one is stopping you from leaving. Being critical of the government or our society is one thing, but I am getting a little sick and tired of seeing people actively hoping for the destruction or some other sort of "humbling" of the US, even when it is said in jest.

I mean really, in the grand scheme of things, what has the US done that is sooooo absolutely terrible that warrants this "ass-kicking" you speak of?

... you took the Borat joke seriously?

 

[El_Machinae]

To me, calling for the destruction of a nation is never justified no matter what. Take North Korea for example. That is probably the most horrific currently active regime right now. Do I advocate for a new government in North Korea? Yes. Would I ever call for the complete destruction of the nation of North Korea simply because their government is monstrous? Never.

Would you be okay with calls for a severe culling of their government agents?

 

[Commodore]

Would you be okay with calls for a severe culling of their government agents?

No. I think people everywhere need to seriously tone down the bloodthirsty talk. I mean, people are always complaining about how the world doesn't seem to be getting any better, but how can it get better if we, as a society, still think it is acceptable to call for violent action against those we view as our enemies.

 

[Flying Pig]

It's often those enemies who are either keeping it bad or threatening to make it much worse. That usually plays a part in their becoming our enemies.

 

[Traitorfish]

As a non-Westerner, I submit that at the present time, American (and, if such a thing were possible, European) hegemony would also be better for non-Westerners than Russian or Chinese hegemony.

Russian or Chinese hegemony aren't realistic propositions, though. Those countries can barely maintain territorial integrity, let alone exercise any sort of global dominance. You may as well ask people if they'd prefer to be ruled by Emperor Palpatine.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Well, plenty of people are ruled by Emperor, err, excuse me, President Barrack Obama.

Or so say the conservatives.

 

[Antilogic]

That's Generalissimo Obamá to you!

 

[gay_Aleks]

He's currently however resigned to funding a multi-billion dollar intelligence agency so that he can find out what kind of porn both Americans and Europeans are watching, a most noble endeavour.

 

[Tahuti]

He's currently however resigned to funding a multi-billion dollar intelligence agency so that he can find out what kind of porn both Americans and Europeans are watching, a most noble endeavour.

With the exception of the Dutch, French and Bulgarians, most European porn involve a lot of poo and piss fetishisms, because everyone thinks Germany is the one country European counries should model themselves on, especially the (porn) industries.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Well, once you own their debts, you own their porn subscriptions. Quite literally.

 

[Tahuti]

Well, once you own their debts, you own their porn subscriptions. Quite literally.

The Greeks learned it the hard way, muahuahuahua!

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Russian or Chinese hegemony aren't realistic propositions, though. Those countries can barely maintain territorial integrity, let alone exercise any sort of global dominance. You may as well ask people if they'd prefer to be ruled by Emperor Palpatine.

The German empire was fine combining a struggle to control its interior (Polish) and its exterior.
So was the British Empire.
And the Russian Empire, I think.
Not to mention the Austrian. Though I may stretch the word 'fine' to unbearable extends at this point.
Anyway, empires seem rather notorious to that kind of paradigm.
In deed, foreign policies seem to have a tendency to overrule internal conflicts. So one may as well say that Chinese internal conflicts make it only more prone to seek outward conflicts.