Is Donald Trump Done for?

On what basis is Trump “done for”?

He’s ran his administration exactly how he said he was going to when he campaigned. I don’t see how his supporters could be disappointed when he’s done everything he said he was going to.

He hasn’t “built the wall” but that’s because of our legislative branch being not quite awful enough to go along with it, not from lack of effort on his part and everyone knows it.

Incumbent Presidents also get re-elected the vast majority of the time. With all that being said, whether he’s the favorite in the 2020 election is debatable, but I don’t see how you could possibly say he’s done for.

And keep in mind George W. Bush was unpopular in 2004 but John Kerry still managed to lose.
 
And keep in mind George W. Bush was unpopular in 2004 but John Kerry still managed to lose.

Thats what I've been saying, the Cultist are going to vote Trump, even if they lose their farms, health and guns
 
That doesn't exactly disprove my point… :deal:
 
↑ Yeah Russia still needs to do more homework though.


One of Trump's earliest proposals was to direct military funding to the nuclear arsenal. He got more discretionary funding for the military eventually. Were these Russia's ideas?

Did Russia direct him to kill the Russians operating in Syria?

When he moves against Russia economically, as when he tried to shame Germany for shopping outside NATO for gas and when he yanked the Iran Deal, I suppose the Russians saw some potential long-term gains by losing business with these countries?

Do they stand to benefit if the US reaches amicable terms with North Korea? Is that on their plate? They want another Japan, another South Korea?


They were rhetorical, sorry. I should think that someone bearing the Russian government's motives in mind, which as you have laid out is basically to sow unrest in the United States, would not be so committed to the idea that they would collude with the Republicans to steal the election from the Democrats. Perhaps Putin has painted himself as attempting this (without any comment on how such a thing would be done, seeing as it's impossible), for the benefit of credulous media like CNN and the npcs, and then denying it, which would explain how he handled the press conference when he and Trump last met. It is possible that the Russian government intended to offer Trump dirt on his opponent during the campaign, just like they supplied dirt on Trump to Clinton through Steele.

lol damn where did all that cynical insight into peoples' motives go?!


Damaging the USAs standing in the world far outweighs their immediate interests in gazprom. In Syria they maintained their Mediterranean presence so that's already been won from their PoV. I agree that it doesn't matter if Trump won or not Putin got what he wanted just by shaking the system. Trump winning was "big bonus".
 
Cant we just impeach him over prejury ?
When asked, Lindsay Graham says he doesn't care if the president perjured himself, or as he put it, 'I don't care if he lied about sex'.

So no, we can't impeach him over perjury while the GOP is busy using his lies over sex to cover campaign finance felonies.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/linds...h-trump-lying-about-sex?source=cheats&via=rss

One of Trump's earliest proposals was to direct military funding to the nuclear arsenal. He got more discretionary funding for the military eventually. Were these Russia's ideas?
At the recent summit, Trump had a closed door meeting with Putin. Mind you, this was after he publicly canceled all side bar meetings with Russia in response to them capturing Ukrainian boats.

After this unannounced, private meeting, Trump almost immediately decried American spending on the nuclear arsenal and the prospect of a new arms race.

Hmmm I wonder if these are related?

https://www-newsweek-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.newsweek.com/did-trump-meet-putin-g20-white-confirms-surprise-informal-meeting-russian-1240198?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&amp=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.newsweek.com/did-trump-meet-putin-g20-white-confirms-surprise-informal-meeting-russian-1240198

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...llable-arms-race-decries-crazy-defense-budget
 
On what basis is Trump “done for”?

He’s ran his administration exactly how he said he was going to when he campaigned. I don’t see how his supporters could be disappointed when he’s done everything he said he was going to.

He hasn’t “built the wall” but that’s because of our legislative branch being not quite awful enough to go along with it, not from lack of effort on his part and everyone knows it.

Incumbent Presidents also get re-elected the vast majority of the time. With all that being said, whether he’s the favorite in the 2020 election is debatable, but I don’t see how you could possibly say he’s done for.

And keep in mind George W. Bush was unpopular in 2004 but John Kerry still managed to lose.
Over 1600 posts in, too: a pretty good clue he's not done for.

But the Mueller show moving forward is the real show. That's what decides if Trump is done for. And that is a series whose ending has yet to be revealed.
 
And that is a series whose ending has yet to be revealed.
Yeah, but if some of you could just agree with me that they're brother and sister, we could have a totes cool thread where we collectively write the script for the final episode.
 
After this unannounced, private meeting, Trump almost immediately decried American spending on the nuclear arsenal and the prospect of a new arms race.

This is absolutely a good, great, and correct position regardless of how it came about.
 
Well, evidently Donald Trump isn't ‘done for’ if a federal judge in Texas can simply strike down the entire Affordable Care Act. >_<
 
Por que no los dos?
 
This is absolutely a good, great, and correct position regardless of how it came about.
Agreed unless it is further evidence of Trump's compromise. A turncoat at the head of the world's most formidable arsenal is as destabilizing an event as we may have faced as a species.

I'm not being hyperbolic, I am dead serious. A dangerously corrupt man is the head of our armed forces. His personal fortune is threatened, his freedom is on the line and he may be personally compromised by the Russian security apparatus. He is stupid and petulant and unpredictable even without all the other compounding factors. This is why I am beating the removal drum.

He has to go.

If the immediate threat of annihilation isn't bad enough, he's sending officials to lobby climate change conferences and negotiations on the behalf of coal companies. That way if we don't turn to glowing ash we can at least continue choking on coal fly until the sea reclaims us all.

But yes, nuclear weapons are bad.
 
he may be personally compromised by the Russian security apparatus
This could be one ground for impeachment: he can't protect us from all enemies, foreign and domestic. There's one enemy he seems incapable of standing up to.
 
This is absolutely a good, great, and correct position regardless of how it came about.
Hey, you're back!
If the immediate threat of annihilation isn't bad enough, he's sending officials to lobby climate change conferences and negotiations on the behalf of coal companies. That way if we don't turn to glowing ash we can at least continue choking on coal fly until the sea reclaims us all.
He's already getting Australia to kowtow to him on both climate and Israel. :twitch:
This could be one ground for impeachment: he can't protect us from all enemies, foreign and domestic. There's one enemy he seems incapable of standing up to.
Now, now, we've already seen he's bigger than Cruz or whichever one of the other blonde Repub guys with Hispanic surnames it was.
 
@Gori the Grey

There are multiple paths to impeachment. They all dead end at McConnell and the broader GOP.


The policy stating Presidents cannot be indicted was formulated by Nixon's Department of Justice in 73 to fight the Watergate scandal. Ken Starr actually argued against this policy during his investigation of Clinton, saying he thought a President could be indicted for crimes they may have committed. In any case, this policy is not in the Constitution. I find it hard to believe the framers intended it otherwise - they only fought a war because they though King George put himself above the law, after all.

https://www.inquisitr.com/5209983/donald-trump-indicted-in-office-constitution/
 
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Agreed unless it is further evidence of Trump's compromise. A turncoat at the head of the world's most formidable arsenal is as destabilizing an event as we may have faced as a species.

I've actually reworded this post a few times so it doesn't come across as, I don't know, "extremely flippant and dismissive".

At one point, the head of the world's second most formidable arsenal was put into office with the help of ample American election interference and was, effectively, an American puppet. Nobody in 1996 claimed that they existed in the most dangerous period in human history.

Is Trump really the most destabilizing event in human history? No, and the reason I say this is because as terrible as Trump is thematically, he really isn't as evil as the absolute monsters the United States has put into the White House nonstop since 1945. I am talking about presidents who, for no real reason, escalated tensions to the point of triggering a miniature crisis every decade or so. Since 2016, the only time I've thought to myself "wow somebody might use a nuclear weapon soon" was over the DPRK.

Except the extremely hostile stance toward the DPRK is a bipartisan effort, something both sides of the aisle supported, with one particularly blue side of the aisle becoming war hawks the minute peace talks started.

I'm not being hyperbolic, I am dead serious. A dangerously corrupt man is the head of our armed forces. His personal fortune is threatened, his freedom is on the line and he may be personally compromised by the Russian security apparatus. He is stupid and petulant and unpredictable even without all the other compounding factors. This is why I am beating the removal drum.

In 2003, an American president launched a war that would soon kill and displace hundreds of thousands, if not millions, in the Middle East. After that president left office, the next one launched an unprecedented global murder campaign using drones. Every president prior to and after 1945 have engaged in absolutely horrific crimes against humanity and war crimes that have killed an ungodly number of people and caused decades of suffering.

If the immediate threat of annihilation isn't bad enough, he's sending officials to lobby climate change conferences and negotiations on the behalf of coal companies. That way if we don't turn to glowing ash we can at least continue choking on coal fly until the sea reclaims us all.

The Democrats literally did nothing substantial in their eight years of power to curb emissions other than sign on to an agreement that optimistically would still result in billions of people fleeing for their lives from heat and water. Trump lobbying on behalf of coal? Dumb, sure, but also pretty American because what American president hasn't gone into these climate conferences with forty dozen corporate lobbyists whispering in their ear or, more accurately, pulling their strings?

Instead of trying to isolate Donald Trump, it would be more prudent for liberal/centrist America to analyze Trump within the broader historic context and accept that Trump represents the natural conclusion of the last 200 years of American history. Otherwise, liberals are going to keep doing that thing where they think there is a legalistic way out of the hellworld we live in.

Hey, you're back!

Still hoping I can follow up my e=mc^2 thread someday.
 
I've actually reworded this post a few times so it doesn't come across as, I don't know, "extremely flippant and dismissive".
It's fine, I feel you.
At one point, the head of the world's second most formidable arsenal was put into office with the help of ample American election interference and was, effectively, an American puppet. Nobody in 1996 claimed that they existed in the most dangerous period in human history.
First I've heard of substantial American interference in that election.

No, and the reason I say this is because as terrible as Trump is thematically, he really isn't as evil as the absolute monsters the United States has put into the White House nonstop since 1945.
My argument is not that he is uniquely evil, it is that he is uniquely dangerous. No one disputes we've had horrible presidents who did horrible things.

In 2003, an American president launched a war that would soon kill and displace hundreds of thousands, if not millions, in the Middle East. After that president left office, the next one launched an unprecedented global murder campaign using drones. Every president prior to and after 1945 have engaged in absolutely horrific crimes against humanity and war crimes that have killed an ungodly number of people and caused decades of suffering.
And?

None of them flippantly threatened nuclear war while crap-posting at 3am. Trump's unhinged, horribly corrupt, petulant and stupid. Past presidents might have had some of those features but not all and they existed within power structures that kept them in check. Most of the horrible things the US has done had popular backing - a lot of people supported Vietnam and all the other wars. Now, however, Trump doesn't need popular support to do what he pleases - his coalition controls the entire federal government until January, at which point they lose one part of one branch.

Do you think a banana republic with nuclear weapons ruled by a man child with a temper on the precipice of prison is remotely comparable to the US of the past? Or do you agree this represents a uniquely threatening and unstable combination of features we haven't yet seen in the US?


The Democrats literally did nothing substantial in their eight years of power to curb emissions other than sign on to an agreement that optimistically would still result in billions of people fleeing for their lives from heat and water. Trump lobbying on behalf of coal?
It wasn't the top Democratic priority from 2008 to 2010. We were consumed with the struggle to bring healthcare to our people which is something most developed nations have managed. After that, there was little the Democrats could do. Since then, it has been and is growing still as a major issue and cause celebre within the broader public - not just liberals.

I just saw an Air Force propaganda piece (it was a longass youtube ad) trying to convince the public to pay for brand new engines for B-52 bombers. One of the selling points of the new engines that the USAF lauded was the dramatically reduced carbon footprint, particulate counts and noise emissions from these new engines.

The Democrats really want to act on climate change and have in states they control. We cannot pass anything through Mitch McConnell and haven't been able to for going on a decade. That doesn't mean they haven't tried and continue to push for these issues.

Dumb, sure, but also pretty American because what American president hasn't gone into these climate conferences with forty dozen corporate lobbyists whispering in their ear or, more accurately, pulling their strings?
The difference is those lobbyists now directly tell the government officials what to say. We also haven't gone out of our way to troll serious negotiations, which is effectively what Trump's administration is doing now.

Instead of trying to isolate Donald Trump, it would be more prudent for liberal/centrist America to analyze Trump within the broader historic context and accept that Trump represents the natural conclusion of the last 200 years of American history. Otherwise, liberals are going to keep doing that thing where they think there is a legalistic way out of the hellworld we live in.
Don't be patronizing.
 
Do they stand to benefit if the US reaches amicable terms with North Korea? Is that on their plate? They want another Japan, another South Korea?

Bwahhahahaha...that's hilarious.

The amicable terms being reached on the Korean peninsula are between DPRK, RoK, and China. By the time we get rid of Trump the path to amicable relations between north and south, mutually shielded from US interference by DPRK's missiles and a three way mutual defense pact with China will be set in stone. If Japan wants to kick out US forces and join in they'll be welcomed too. Trump is proving that there is no worse ally on the planet than the US...and yes, Russia benefits.
 
First I've heard of substantial American interference in that election.

You'd be (un)surprised by the amount of election interference the United States has engaged in.


My argument is not that he is uniquely evil, it is that he is uniquely dangerous. No one disputes we've had horrible presidents who did horrible things.

Fair enough.

Is he uniquely dangerous in a way other post-1945 presidents haven't been? If so, to who? Because as evil (and dangerous) Trump is, he has to commit to policies such as arm death squads in Central America or has had his own Highway of Death or pushed the world to the brink of nuclear war over an island in the Caribbean. The most dangerous aspects of Donald Trump are with regards to climate change, in which he's just loudly carrying out a policy the United States has been quietly carrying out since Kyoto, and the DPRK, which today seems to have largely cooled.

The other aspects of him that are dangerous aren't unique to him, but unique to the entirety of the American government, such as his xenophobia and commitment to an economic system that will lead to all our grandchildren dying of exciting new cancers, heatstroke, and drowning in a few decades


None of them flippantly threatened nuclear war while crap-posting at 3am.

Because they didn't have Twitter.

Do you really think Nixon or Reagan would not have used Twitter to flippantly threaten nuclear escalation if they had access to Twitter? We will never know, but we do know that Nixon was purposely erratic about nuclear weapons and that his strategy of being erratic is something Trump at various points of his presidency has used.

Ronald Reagan joked about nuking the Soviet Union. Does it not seem dangerous that an American president would be so flippant that he doesn't just threaten, but jokes, about using nuclear weapons? It wasn't that long ago that we watched on nationally televised debates as two dozen other Republican nominees also voiced their desire to bomb various countries in the Middle East such as Iran. If Trump is "uniquely dangerous", it is because the United States is uniquely dangerous.

Trump's unhinged, horribly corrupt, petulant and stupid. Past presidents might have had some of those features but not all and they existed within power structures that kept them in check. Most of the horrible things the US has done had popular backing - a lot of people supported Vietnam and all the other wars. Now, however, Trump doesn't need popular support to do what he pleases - his coalition controls the entire federal government until January, at which point they lose one part of one branch.

Every American president is corrupt. Trump is definitely dumber and more petulant than most though, I agree.

Trump seems less a danger in this scenario than the fact that the entire American system of government is intentionally designed to be anti-democratic.

Do you think a banana republic with nuclear weapons ruled by a man child with a temper on the precipice of prison is remotely comparable to the US of the past? Or do you agree this represents a uniquely threatening and unstable combination of features we haven't yet seen in the US?

Yes, because this is really just the second part of the Nixon Saga, isn't it? We, as a species, have been here before and just need to take a deep breathe and ask ourselves why are Americans so uniquely bad at what they do that they continually let this happen.

Again, nothing Trump has done has killed or ruined as many lives as the global drone campaign, the Iraq Wars, and the various interventions it has engaged in since 1945. Trump's most dangerous aspect is that he put brown people into camps, but this is only happening because the American form of government is so structurally evil and the people in that country have enough dangerous, unhinged, people in it that this could happen.


It wasn't the top Democratic priority from 2008 to 2010. We were consumed with the struggle to bring healthcare to our people which is something most developed nations have managed. After that, there was little the Democrats could do. Since then, it has been and is growing still as a major issue and cause celebre within the broader public - not just liberals.

The ACA didn't even manage to do that. The ACA was just this weird neoliberal attempt to thread the needle so that their donors can earn windfall profits (at government expenses). It was/is a terrible policy the Democrats wasted energy on between 2009 and 2010; a policy in which they controlled most of the government they needed to control to do whatever they want and what they want was this pathetic healthcare scheme that only looks good in comparison to the Republican plan, which is to eventually send poor people to poor camps anyway. If Democrats were ever serious about healthcare, they would've started with either nationalizing the healthcare industry or implement single payer or, given how much power they had to shape policy in those years, both. They didn't, because Democrats don't really care.

I just saw an Air Force propaganda piece (it was a longass youtube ad) trying to convince the public to pay for brand new engines for B-52 bombers. One of the selling points of the new engines that the USAF lauded was the dramatically reduced carbon footprint, particulate counts and noise emissions from these new engines.

Jesus Christ.

The Democrats really want to act on climate change and have in states they control. We cannot pass anything through Mitch McConnell and haven't been able to for going on a decade. That doesn't mean they haven't tried and continue to push for these issues.

The difference is those lobbyists now directly tell the government officials what to say. We also haven't gone out of our way to troll serious negotiations, which is effectively what Trump's administration is doing now.

I do not feel that this is true. I say this because the policies the Democrats have gone after have always had a greater priority than climate: the market. In an era where the goal should be to vastly reduce the number of cars on the road, period, the Democrats' market-based solution was to subsidize private automakers (including ones who were bailed out in 2008) to sell even more cars (now hybrid and electrical) to the market. A lot of defenses for Democrats make them sound like helpless children and not as grown adults with the same powers of obstruction available to Republicans, or that there aren't actions outside the sphere of electoral politics and the courts that the Democrats could take if they really considered climate change the existential crisis it is. I don't think Democrats have the tools for handling climate change because, for the most part, the Democrats are committed capitalists and committed to the markets whereas climate change is the natural long-term outcome of industrial capitalism, a contradiction that can't be bandaged over with tax incentives and subsidies neatly.

As for the lobbyists, well, the lobbyists have always told government officials what to say. They've been doing that since the 1880s. The only difference is that the modern politician, secure in their position, no longer feels the need to reword their homework answers to make them sound like they came up with them.


Don't be patronizing.

Sorry; did not mean for it to come off that way.
 
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