Is John human?

What do you make of John (with organic left foot)?


  • Total voters
    26
@El_Machinae That's pretty fascinating

I'd have to say that once his brain is replaced with a cybernetic replica he's not really the same person anymore, but a new distinct individual.

The brain cells in your brain are completely different from what they were last year. Are you the same person as you were then, or are you a new distinct individual?
 
Oh, they certainly change. But many of your neurons have (mostly) the same DNA molecules they did when you were a kid.

If you move your left hand from your front pocket to your back pocket, it's (in some ways) "completely different". But in other ways, not really, y'know?
 
@El_Machinae That's pretty fascinating



The brain cells in your brain are completely different from what they were last year. Are you the same person as you were then, or are you a new distinct individual?

Again it all comes down to continuity. My cells may be replaced but the whole system has continued working, uninterrupted, since I was born. It's hard to see a situation where you can literally replace someone's brain while maintaining continuity.

The argument could also be made though, and I have seen it made convincingly, that we are not the same person as we were a few years ago, but that in order for society to function properly we have to treat things as if we are the same person. For example, we can't let murderers out of prison after only serving 2 years because they "aren't the same person anymore", such arguments are fascinating philosophically but useless in a practical, day to day sense.
 
Yeah, the "uninterrupted" part of it is key.

If we can manage to move a brain into a computer while keeping this "uninterrupted" aspect of consciousness untouched, then it would continue being the same individual, even if it's hard to imagine how such a thing would work. (neuron by neuron? Who knows.. Let's say "magic")

My point ^^ was just this - Just because some constituent parts are different doesn't mean that the "big picture" can't remain the same.
 
Neuron by neuron!

In my estimation, it's research into Parkison's Disease that will bear the most rapid fruit for this technology
 
Why is uninterrupted so danged important? I lose conciousness almost every day.

I'd say for experimental purposes you could make a lot more observations about what each change does to John if he is conscious rather than unconscious.
 
Well, once we're able to do this, I'd refer to a human consciousness uploaded to the cloud as "human". Our brain-holding meatbags aren't particularly important once they're easily replaceable.
There's no reason to believe we'll ever be able to do this.

And even if such a fantastical "upload" system existed it still wouldn't be you. It would be a copy of you that thought it was you but you'd still die & someone who thought & acted just like you would remain, trapped in a computer.

Put another way if I clone you & then murder you, you're dead. You may have a clone but that doesn't help you in anyway since you're dead.
 
Why is uninterrupted so danged important? I lose conciousness almost every day.

You lose consciousness but your brain keeps working, going to sleep is not what we're talking about when we talk about continuity.
 
Why is uninterrupted so danged important? I lose conciousness almost every day.

But your brain continues working unabated, even when you're asleep. There is no interruption on a grand scale - just an interruption from your point of view.

xxxxxposted
 
There's no reason to believe we'll ever be able to do this.

And even if such a fantastical "upload" system existed it still wouldn't be you. It would be a copy of you that thought it was you but you'd still die & someone who thought & acted just like you would remain, trapped in a computer.

That really doesn't matter though, does it? Continuity of self is overrated and you'll be dead either way if you don't upload. Trapped in a computer sounds better than trapped in an Universe. At least there is potential to reshape reality.
 
You lose consciousness but your brain keeps working, going to sleep is not what we're talking about when we talk about continuity.

But your brain continues working unabated, even when you're asleep. There is no interruption on a grand scale - just an interruption from your point of view.

xxxxxposted
So what? What makes those processes so danged important?
 
So what? What makes those processes so danged important?

These processes are what keep your heart beating, lungs breathing, bowels from evacuating, and will wake you up when needed. They also process your memories and help move short term memory into long term memory. It helps your brain process thoughts and problems which have been bothering you as well.

In other words, you will die without them.
 
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