Is this the Atheist Fanatics Forums Off-Topic?

[Defiant47]

Well, I think atheists are more open to realise they might be wrong than most theists. Many Christians have a very cocky attitude about their religion and the "evidence" for it. It is almost as they seem to think: "Yeah, yeah, go ahead and insult me and my beliefs. I know where you will finally end up"

Meh, I find that both sides have those kinds of people in ample supply.

 

[Aegis]

Well, I try to be open minded when people are discussing the Bible or Quran or something but at some point it justs becomes too much-I just think it's crazy to believe that you get 72 Faye Valentines when you die.

I fall into the category of agnostic. I do believe in the possibility of there being a God, but I do not subscribe to any organized religious beliefs. I also believe that if God does exist, he's a real bastard and has some major apologizing to do.

 

[Danielos]

I fall into the category of agnostic. I do believe in the possibility of there being a God, but I do not subscribe to any organized religious beliefs. I also believe that if God does exist, he's a real bastard and has some major apologizing to do.

I think there was a Christian/Jewish subfaction (gnosticism?) around Jesus time that believed that God do exist, but that he is an evil one. Of course, they were considered heretics.

 

[cardgame]

Agreed, and with the trolling and flaming by the more obnoxious militant atheists on the board.

Sorry, but you're not right. No matter how egotistcal militant atheists get .


Agreed, I even got tired of thick headed atheists who ask questions about a religion then refuse to accept the answer because they don't want to hear anything. I don't play games here, if you are genualy curious I will answer the question. But if you (general you) start to not want to hear it and refuse to listen. I stop right there because I don't want to put up with the imature games atheists play. I have better things to do with my time than argue with an atheist on religion.

Up until your post I was enjoying reading this thread. Congratulations starting a flamewar!

I think there was a Christian/Jewish subfaction (gnosticism?) around Jesus time that believed that God do exist, but that he is an evil one. Of course, they were considered heretics.

Yep.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Agreed, and with the trolling and flaming by the more obnoxious militant atheists on the board. I am not supprised to see why most theists on this forum would rather keep quiet than engage with an argument with an offensive atheist who rants "you're stupid cause you believe in God!", etc. And hold an air of superiority and thinking that they are better than theists. Being as vocal as the atheist on this board won't help anything nor would it make em ceace assaulting religion.

I couldn't agree more. The more militant atheists are turning atheism into their own fanatical pseudo-religion. And they always respond to that allegation in the same way; that atheism is defined as the existence of no religion, so it can't be a religion. You can turn anything into a pseudo-religion merely by being fanatical enough about it.

Sorry, but you're not right. No matter how egotistcal militant atheists get . How do YOU know you are right? You could face Jesus when you die then tells you you're going to hell, or some deity from a religion denies you into heaven/nirvana/whatever.

That is why I take the much more defensibile position of agnosticism instead.

There is simply no way to disprove the existence of a god. Even anti-religion spokesperson Richard Dawkins admits he thinks the possiblity would be a 6.9 on a scale of 1-7, where 1 means a god must exist and a 7 means he didn't.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x525mz_bill-maher-real-time-god-and-religi_news

But I do agree with Dawkins on one point. You can believe whatever you what , but don't let your likely imaginary friends try to rule my own life by forcing it down my throat. That's where I draw the line.

And even if there is a god, I'm pretty sure he isn't a vengeful one and who would abandon anbody to eternal hell for merely not believing in his existence. YMMV.

 

[Winner]

What would you expect? What believers hate the most about atheists is that they don't feel so bloody insecure about their views. It's religious people who constantly need to prop each other in their delusions, which is why the natural confidence displayed by the atheists irks them so much.

 

[Nylan]

What would you expect? What believers hate the most about atheists is that they don't feel so bloody insecure about their views. It's religious people who constantly need to prop each other in their delusions, which is why the natural confidence displayed by the atheists irks them so much.

One could easily say the atheists are compensating for insecurity using your logic.

Also, why do you think you know what believers hate most? Did we have a referendum? What you have in that post is vapid conjecture at best.

 

[Moss]

What would you expect? What believers hate the most about atheists is that they don't feel so bloody insecure about their views. It's religious people who constantly need to prop each other in their delusions, which is why the natural confidence displayed by the atheists irks them so much.

I disagree. I don't think either side is insecure and I think both sides are frustrated by how confident the other side is in their beliefs.

 

[Winner]

One could easily say the atheists are compensating for insecurity using your logic.

Not in my experience. Religious people feel the need to constantly discuss their religion and everything connected to it, while most atheists just don't give a crap. You simply don't see atheists patting each other's backs talking about how great their (lack of) religion is. Believers do that all the time.

And so, when they encounter an atheist, his lack of care for their beliefs provokes them.

Also, why do you think you know what believers hate most? Did we have a referendum? What you have is vapid conjecture at best.

Again, my own experience - if yours is different, OK - I don't have a monopoly on truth, unlike certain religious doctrines

I disagree. I don't think either side is insecure and I think both sides are frustrated by how confident the other side is in their beliefs.

I've never seen the situation in reverse - atheists might get frustrated by the stubborness and irrationality displayed by believers, but most just shrug and leave them in their delusions.

 

[illram]

Agnosticism for the win!

 

[Dachs]

I think there was a Christian/Jewish subfaction (gnosticism?) around Jesus time that believed that God do exist, but that he is an evil one. Of course, they were considered heretics.

Yep.

Describing the demiurge as "evil" is pushing it, because not even close to all Gnostics thought that - the only unifying belief about that deity was that it wasn't perfectly good.

 

[LucyDuke]

Internet arguments!

How often do you argue about religion with your friends and coworkers? How often do we have religion threads? The atheist presence isn't going to be noticed until it's mentioned, so chances are that even if most of the people you talk to day-to-day are theist/atheist, you just won't know. Here you know. There could be fewer atheists here (proportionally) than in your town, you just haven't noticed.

People who argue on the internet aren't the types of folks to shut up and accept what they're told. There is some level of shut up and accept what you're told in some religions. Folks who tend to challenge authority overlap with folks who like to make a big stink about things in the tubes. (Ya ya I know not all of you shut up and accept what you're told. Some of your church buddies do though.)

And rather importantly IMO, we've got a large segment of angry teenage nerdy guys. The most belligerent, vocal atheists come from that demographic. You'll get guys (I'd love to cite a few, mods probably would frown on that, but if you think about OT's population you'll surely see exactly what I'm talking about) that are here on a mission, they're the first person to ever figure out that religion is a sham and they're here to spread the news, to berate you for not seeing the blindingly obvious that they've so generously revealed to the world. Their talking points stoke flames and drag down the quality of the discussion. As though they're finally going to be The One to elicit proof of divinity, or to sway believers.

Well most of the Theists here generally keep quiet, except on a few occasions, since most of the talk by the Atheists here would raise a lot of in many of the hard hitting Christian forums. Many of us just prefer to talk about the game rather than our beliefs, which is a shame, since we do need to be as vocal as the Atheists on this board. So to speak, get the message out.

Why would the atheists be posting in hard hitting Christian forums?

If you'd prefer to talk about the game why are you posting in OT?

You can see that I am the first Theist to speak on here after 25 posts, (at time of writing, just in case it changes during all this typing), which is often what happens when religion gets discussed, plus many people also recognise that it is hard to talk to some of the ardent Atheists, since they often more fanatical about their unbelief than most Theists are about their belief.

It is hard to talk to some of the ardent theists since they're often more fanatical about their belief than most atheists are about their unbelief. Of course the ardent segment is going to be more fanatical.

The whole thing is a two-way street. Your other post (The main problem is often that many of the objections that ar raised against religion...) demonstrates the exact same thing: turn the tables and it's just as correct.

Interesting, and wow, seriously, France takes the cake for being the most non-spiritual country out there! No wonder Americans hate the French so much

Atheist Americans hate France too.

 

[Nylan]

Not in my experience. Religious people feel the need to constantly discuss their religion and everything connected to it, while most atheists just don't give a crap. You simply don't see atheist patting each other's back, talking about how great their (lack of) religion is. Believers do that all the time.

And so, when they encounter an atheist, their lack of care for their beliefs provokes them.

You sure you've been here long?

Again, my own experience - if yours is different, OK - I don't have a monopoly on truth, unlike certain religious doctrines

How is "your own experience" a psychoanalysis of why theists do what they do? All you have are vague observations, and as noted by the quote below, those observations seem to be very limited in scope. Your sample size is insufficient, or your conclusions about your observations are ill-founded.

I've never seen the situation in reverse - atheists might get frustrated by the stubborness and irrationality displayed by believers, but most just shrug and leave them in their delusions.

Take this sentence and replace the word atheist with theist, and you will see something mentioned earlier in this very thread. Again, I'm afraid your experience with theists must be very limited.

 

[Winner]

Agnosticism for the win!

I've always seen agnosticism as a sign of hypocrisy and cowardness. Being an agnostic is like "OK, I don't believe in God, but I hope there is one".

No, thanks. If there's God, there must be proof of his existence. If the religious people can't prove it (by using a scientific method), the God-theory is unsubstantiated and thus irrelevant.

 

[Danielos]

Not in my experience. Religious people feel the need to constantly discuss their religion and everything connected to it, while most atheists just don't give a crap. You simply don't see atheists patting each other's backs talking about how great their (lack of) religion is. Believers do that all the time.

I think atheists like to discuss religion more than religious people. Since their central dogma is already established since long ago, there is not that much for them to really discuss. The only religious people that ever actively have tried to convert me is Jehova´s Witnesses, and I like talking with them, since I like to argue about religion.

 

[Winner]

Take this sentence and replace the word atheist with theist, and you will see something mentioned earlier in this very thread. Again, I'm afraid your experience with theists must be very limited.

I forgot who I was speaking to

 

[Lillefix]

But I do agree with Dawkins on one point. You can believe whatever you what , but don't let your likely imaginary friends try to rule my own life by forcing it down my throat. That's where I draw the line.

This is also elegantly argued by Stephen Fry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zHcBF-g7-c

 

[Danielos]

I've always seen agnosticism as a hypocrisy and cowardness. Being an agnostic is like "OK, I don't believe in God, but I hope there is one".

No, thanks. If there's God, there must be proof of his existence. If the religious people can't prove it (by using a scientific method), the God-theory is unsubstantiated and thus irrelevant.

It´s a bit like the "moderate" Christians of today that have accepted evolution and thinks many of the stories in the OT is just symbolical. Their main basis is the NT and the teachings of Jesus. I guess it is sort of an improvement, but it leaves a few basic flaws:

* If humans were created by evolution rather than Genesis, where is the unique human position? Humans were supposed to be the image of God. If we are just evolved apes, why should God care so much about us rather than Neanderthal man?

* If the original sin never literally happened, Jesus sacrifice for our sins doesn´t make much sense

* If the stories of OT should not be taken literally, why should we take any other stories in the Bible (including the NT) literally? If the Bible is symbolical, maybe the resurrection of Jesus was just symbolical and not to be taken literally as well...

 

[Winner]

I think atheists like to discuss religion more than religious people. Since their central dogma is already established since long ago, there is not that much for them to really discuss. The only religious people that ever actively have tried to convert me is Jehova´s Witnesses, and I like talking with them, since I like to argue about religion.

Atheists don't have a church to attend to seek reassurance, which is what I was referring to.

As for me personally, I sometimes get in provocative mood and stir the believers a little to see their reactions, but that's like playing with lab rats or something, I do it for fun.

 

[Formaldehyde]

And rather importantly IMO, we've got a large segment of angry teenage nerdy guys. The most belligerent, vocal atheists come from that demographic. You'll get guys (I'd love to cite a few, mods probably would frown on that, but if you think about OT's population you'll surely see exactly what I'm talking about) that are here on a mission, they're the first person to ever figure out that religion is a sham and they're here to spread the news, to berate you for not seeing the blindingly obvious that they've so generously revealed to the world. Their talking points stoke flames and drag down the quality of the discussion. As though they're finally going to be The One to elicit proof of divinity, or to sway believers.

You don't have to point them out. They simply can't resist posting in threads like this.