IS

[classical_hero]

Why is that we have no "Ask a moderate Muslim " thread? Maybe r16 could volunteer? If every single respected cleric would issue fatwas against IS -- that would sure help.

There is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim.

Moderator Action: Infraction for trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Ajidica]

There can be no comparisons between Islam and Christianity in this context. There are 20, 000 Christian denominations plus non-denominational churches, plus pseudo-Christian sects. LRA is locally run sect, with no guys traveling from USA to join them. Every single IS recruit be it from Tunisia or Chechnya decided to join IS while still being a Sunni Muslim. Week before he was attending to Friday sermon in his local mosque, week after he is pledging allegiance to "Caliph". Did not receive enough peer discouragement, me thinks.

My point was that any "respected cleric" who did issue a specific condemnation of ISIS (as opposed to relying on the centuries of established Islamic customs and jurisprudence saying that ISIS are about as Muslim as Kony is Christian) would be preaching to the choir. The people who do join ISIS willingly (as opposed being press-ganged into it) aren't going to be listening to a cleric who condemns ISIS in the first place.

There is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim.

lolwut

Please, do try and support this statement.

 

[brennan]

I suppose you could support it in the same way as the suggestion that anyone who wouldn't kill their own children for cheeking them isn't a real Jew; or that anyone who doesn't leave their wealth, friends and family behind to follow Jesus isn't a true Christian.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Why is that we have no "Ask a moderate Muslim " thread?

Why not simply an "Ask a Muslim" thread?

Muslims don't need to specify they are moderate.

Please, do try and support this statement.

Please don't.

 

[Borachio]

Surely there must be moderate Muslims. If there weren't, how would we know what an extreme one looked like?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Maybe they go skydiving a lot.

 

[kramerfan86]

Oh he simply must try to explain, the comedic value of it will be worth the price of admission.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

How does ISIS pose a threat to the US? They can't even defeat Iraq and Syria.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

How does ISIS pose a threat to the US? They can't even defeat Iraq and Syria.

If you are sufficiently paranoid, everyone is a threat.

 

[Tahuti]

How does ISIS pose a threat to the US? They can't even defeat Iraq and Syria.

They might. This is not to say I favour an all out war in Iraq or Syria, but one could argue that ISIS is more of a rebellion against the Iraqi and Syrian governments than a foreign power attempting to conquer both, so it could go either way.

 

[Commodore]

Surely there must be moderate Muslims. If there weren't, how would we know what an extreme one looked like?

There are moderate Muslims, the problem of course lies in the fact that we never see or hear them speaking out against or actively opposing the extremists. That opens them up to suspicion as well, since general human thinking goes that if you don't speak out against something then you must be a secret supporter of it. I personally don't agree with that logic, but I would like to see moderate Muslims be a little more vocal and active in their opposition to the extremists.

 

[Tahuti]

There are moderate Muslims, the problem of course lies in the fact that we never see or hear them speaking out against or actively opposing the extremists. That opens them up to suspicion as well, since general human thinking goes that if you don't speak out against something then you must be a secret supporter of it. I personally don't agree with that logic, but I would like to see moderate Muslims be a little more vocal and active in their opposition to the extremists.

Moderate Muslims do not fit in the narrative. There are plenty of Muslims who actively oppose terrorism, but their voice is actively being marginalised.

 

[Agent327]

By whom? Western media?

Meanwhile ISIS beheads a UK aid worker:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f1c7eac2-3bb8-11e4-84b4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3DGERteux

 

[Borachio]

There are moderate Muslims, the problem of course lies in the fact that we never see or hear them speaking out against or actively opposing the extremists. That opens them up to suspicion as well, since general human thinking goes that if you don't speak out against something then you must be a secret supporter of it. I personally don't agree with that logic, but I would like to see moderate Muslims be a little more vocal and active in their opposition to the extremists.

Really?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738934/UK-Muslim-leaders-issue-fatwa-condemning-Britons-join-jihadi-extremists.html

http://www.standard-freeholder.com/2014/09/12/vakily-muslims-universally-condemn-extremism

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/isis-concern-british-muslim-leaders-condemn-extremist-group-9599273.html

They seem to be doing so in the UK, with tedious frequency.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There are moderate Muslims, the problem of course lies in the fact that we never see or hear them speaking out against or actively opposing the extremists. That opens them up to suspicion as well, since general human thinking goes that if you don't speak out against something then you must be a secret supporter of it. I personally don't agree with that logic, but I would like to see moderate Muslims be a little more vocal and active in their opposition to the extremists.

Blame media and yourself for saying this without checking.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I also think its silly and unjust to call these terrorist Islamic state; http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/13/term-islamic-state-slur-faith-david-cameron

 

[timtofly]

And now we have evidence that there are moderates who speak out against those abusing their own religion.

Does beheading people make one a terrorist? There have been some really horrible goings on in a lot of Africa involving Muslims and it seems that they have not been called terrorist. Is that just a ME thing?

 

[Tigranes]

There has been disagreement among ulamas whether adult male prisoners of war may be executed, although Muhammad did execute men on many occasions. Was he a moderate Muslim? The disciple is not above his master. If master could execute POWs, those who claim to be his disciples may reason -- well aid worker is not exactly a POW, but hey we are so much more inferior to the prophet.

 

[Agent327]

There has been disagreement among ulamas whether adult male prisoners of war may be executed

They may not.

Muhammad did execute[/URL] men on many occasions. Was he a moderate Muslim? The disciple is not above his master. If master could execute POWs, those who claim to be his disciples may reason -- well aid worker is not exactly a POW, but hey we are so much more inferior to the prophet.

That's not even reasoning. At any time in history there have been differences of opinion on what constitutes true Islam - just as with the other monotheistically inclined religions. That's not really relevant here: executing prisoners may have been OK in olden times, in the 21st century it's a war crime.

 

[r16]

the execution is a fine example of just-in-time . Turkish TVs defined Mr. Haines as Scottish ; must be a cool thing among the ISIL ranks that they are killing people to hurt Cameron , this guy in Dawning 10 or whatever . Or the "satisfaction" with the Haines family trying to reach out before Wednesday , considering the tempo was supposed to be one murder every two weeks , this way they prove how tough they are before the well advirtised bombing of US which is yet to start . No doubt why it's delayed though , the ISIL guys are veeeeryyy biiig warriors , it takes time to dig enough foxholes to hide them all from "effective" attacks . Speaking of which , those raids to come in Syria are merely a show of force that squarely aims to go around the thing that the NATO is not "wellcome" in Syria . Gas attacks of 2012 couldn't do ; Barack Hussein went to Congress and stuff exactly because gas attacks couldn't do . ISIL is hardly more of an animal than what has been going on since the beginning of this Arab Spring .

which , without the slightest surprise , turns out to become a propaganda thing against Turks and stuff . The turn of the events makes us look like the only State Sponsor of ISIL , with Qatar betraying Ankara without a blink of an eyelid . And even Wall Street Journal and its ilk are talking about the betrayal of the Turks in this very "clear" fight against evil . We are reduced to mumbling about how Erbil can not replace Incirlik , 'cause the runway there is not wide enough for a two-abreast take off for combat jets . Considering maybe 150 targets were hit in a month and half of these are probably Hellfires mounted on drones , one single F-18 or 16 sortie a day with 2 bombs under the wings would be enough but don't expect to hear these kind of stuff in Turkey , nor in America . Considering ISIL is still doing wonders for the "plan" . The one people laugh at me for .

Why is that we have no "Ask a moderate Muslim " thread? Maybe r16 could volunteer?

that ı see all as a conspiracy would immediately disqualify me in a way . The Voice of Russia , acting on the whims of Moscow , has already opiniated that the "New" in Turkey would turn many people away from Islam with their undeniable greed and hardly concealed thievery . My thing so far would immediately colour such CFC thread with a range of negative connotations ; my concerns for this life are not capable of turning me away from the afterlife but ı don't think ı am cut for representing Islam in this way . But if a thread was to be opened ı would readily rant . Thinking of it Nedim Napoleon had one and it didn't turn out to be bad or something .

If every single respected cleric would issue fatwas against IS -- that would sure help.

there's no need for that . The suffering of the Sunni has been real , as much as the suffering they have inflicted on the non-Sunni . Being an almost never-practising Sunni Hanefi , am still qualified to state without the slightest reservation that the ISIL is not Islamic and it has nothing to do with Religion apart from using Beliefs and Morals as a smokescreen .

nor it's a thing that can not be noticed in the Middle East .

How does ISIS pose a threat to the US? They can't even defeat Iraq and Syria.

considering every single person in the Middle East with half a wit knows America would be tearing down ISIL ranks as soon as they started rolling into Musul . It's an acceptance of life just like you take an umbrella if it looks like it will rain . America for some weirdly stupid reason can not face a certain country openly -and don't even ask why- and has to create a 'stan do its bidding . The entire Middle East also knows Iran will get the bomb in return for the creation of 'stan and the risks that imposes on Tahran . The dance that has been going on since '91 when Bush I sold the Barzanists must have caused a million or two deaths already . And the blame squarely lays on the shoulders of the US , and no answers on the "How come?" of that either ...