KA01 - A Simple Deity Space Race
- Thread starter Karasu
- Start date
Mistfit
Deity
Sheesh...Don't roll your eyes at me. Nationalism is always one of the first techs that I have seen the AI research in the IA (Isn't it the normal free tech of Scientific Civ's?). We are Almost there, unless we've decided not to look forward in the game. I thought the idea here was to put forth ideas to possibly improve our chances of winning this quickly. I also thought that having the Otto's on our good side would be helpful. But then again I'm just a Silverwinger so what do I know.
As we're half an age away from the IA I thought you must have had a temporary memory blip. Apologies for my rash ass ... umption
Mistfit
Deity
Understandable as I do frequently have memory blips. If I read Karasu's last turn report correctly we are 3 turns away from the IA.AlanH said:
Turn 9 - 540 AD said:
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Young Mistfit is correct we are 3 turns from IA. (EDIT: crossed with Alan)
Some thoughts:
1) Since we are going for Space Race, we should switch the build in Barcelona to Copernicus in 22 turns and double the science in our #3 science city. Toledo and Madrid our #1 science cities would take 30 and 35 turns respectively to build it.
2) Should we gift OTTO to the IA using the Big Picture and try to buy his free tech? Although if its Nationalism it will be extremely overpriced. OTTO is currently even with us, so he may actually hit IA first if he is studying ToG instead of Navigation. But we might get some gpt from him. We actually do not have much to offer him in a trade so it's probably not worth gifting it.
3) We need Navigation for our UU and to kick off our GA, but prior to kicking off our GA we need to mine some hills in three specific cities to increase our shields. We have 3 Great Wonders that I think we could build if we get started on prebuilds now and then finish them during our GA. If we play with them we might even be able to time them to avoid the cascade and claim all three (Copernicus', Smith's & Bach's). If we lose out on one of these we can switch to Magellean's.
The 3 cities that need increased shields are:
Barcelona - thru mm there is a mt and some mBGs not used
Entremont - has a nearly completed univ which can be switched and it has unmined hills that need to be mined, it is currently working 2 forests
Either Aldea de Ribannah or Toledo - depending on how we mm Barcelona.
I great leader or two would be very handy about now, so the war versus ENG can be run concurrently.
4) Research ECONOMICS after NAVIGATION, 2 deadend techs but should only take about 4 - 5 turns for each. And if we get these 3 Wonders we will be very strong.
Some thoughts:
1) Since we are going for Space Race, we should switch the build in Barcelona to Copernicus in 22 turns and double the science in our #3 science city. Toledo and Madrid our #1 science cities would take 30 and 35 turns respectively to build it.
2) Should we gift OTTO to the IA using the Big Picture and try to buy his free tech? Although if its Nationalism it will be extremely overpriced. OTTO is currently even with us, so he may actually hit IA first if he is studying ToG instead of Navigation. But we might get some gpt from him. We actually do not have much to offer him in a trade so it's probably not worth gifting it.
3) We need Navigation for our UU and to kick off our GA, but prior to kicking off our GA we need to mine some hills in three specific cities to increase our shields. We have 3 Great Wonders that I think we could build if we get started on prebuilds now and then finish them during our GA. If we play with them we might even be able to time them to avoid the cascade and claim all three (Copernicus', Smith's & Bach's). If we lose out on one of these we can switch to Magellean's.
The 3 cities that need increased shields are:
Barcelona - thru mm there is a mt and some mBGs not used
Entremont - has a nearly completed univ which can be switched and it has unmined hills that need to be mined, it is currently working 2 forests
Either Aldea de Ribannah or Toledo - depending on how we mm Barcelona.
I great leader or two would be very handy about now, so the war versus ENG can be run concurrently.
4) Research ECONOMICS after NAVIGATION, 2 deadend techs but should only take about 4 - 5 turns for each. And if we get these 3 Wonders we will be very strong.
A quick pause in the game at 590 AD.
Situation:
- We finished ToG and traded it to the Ottomans for gpt. I could have got gpt from Japan and Aztecs for it, but was nervous about cutting their research budgets. Ottomans have Nationalism as a monpoly, of course, but won't trade. We can't use gpt to buy it even if we wanted it.
- We have now swapped ToG for Navigation from the Zulus and need to choose our next research project.
- India completed Copernicus but we have snagged Newton's in Toledo with a leader.
- We have two wonder/pre-builds in progress - Palace in Barcelona with 125 shields + 16spt, and Bach's in Entremont with 168 shields + 16 spt.
- Bach's and Smith's are both 600 shields, so will take 30 and 27 turns in these two towns. Note that neither can fall back to Magellan as they are not coastal.
- We can research Economics in 4 turns to enable Smith's, but there's no real need to do it that fast if Smith's is going to take 27-30 turns.
- We can research Steam in 6 turns and increase our shield production rate with rails.
- We can research Mil Tradition in 4 turns and increase our military strength with cavalry. Zulus have taken Canterbury, and Indians and Ottomans are also advancing on England in numbers. We aren't currently in a position to steal English cities. The Zulus took Canterbury in one turn anyway, but we can't even get near them unless we get there first. But that would just mean we take the brunt of the English active defence
I'm tempted to research MT so that our cavalry can join in the fun in England, then Steam to get our workers railing. Meanwhile I'll build a couple of conquistadores. Economics could come after that, or via trading. Is this a plan? I'm concerned that I may be missing a reason for doing Economics first?
Situation:
- We finished ToG and traded it to the Ottomans for gpt. I could have got gpt from Japan and Aztecs for it, but was nervous about cutting their research budgets. Ottomans have Nationalism as a monpoly, of course, but won't trade. We can't use gpt to buy it even if we wanted it.
- We have now swapped ToG for Navigation from the Zulus and need to choose our next research project.
- India completed Copernicus but we have snagged Newton's in Toledo with a leader.
- We have two wonder/pre-builds in progress - Palace in Barcelona with 125 shields + 16spt, and Bach's in Entremont with 168 shields + 16 spt.
- Bach's and Smith's are both 600 shields, so will take 30 and 27 turns in these two towns. Note that neither can fall back to Magellan as they are not coastal.
- We can research Economics in 4 turns to enable Smith's, but there's no real need to do it that fast if Smith's is going to take 27-30 turns.
- We can research Steam in 6 turns and increase our shield production rate with rails.
- We can research Mil Tradition in 4 turns and increase our military strength with cavalry. Zulus have taken Canterbury, and Indians and Ottomans are also advancing on England in numbers. We aren't currently in a position to steal English cities. The Zulus took Canterbury in one turn anyway, but we can't even get near them unless we get there first. But that would just mean we take the brunt of the English active defence
I'm tempted to research MT so that our cavalry can join in the fun in England, then Steam to get our workers railing. Meanwhile I'll build a couple of conquistadores. Economics could come after that, or via trading. Is this a plan? I'm concerned that I may be missing a reason for doing Economics first?
DJMGator13
Still breathing
AlanH said:I'm tempted to research MT so that our cavalry can join in the fun in England, then Steam to get our workers railing. Meanwhile I'll build a couple of conquistadores. Economics could come after that, or via trading. Is this a plan? I'm concerned that I may be missing a reason for doing Economics first?
Did OTTO grab MT? We could trade it to him if we can get it first.
What about MT, ECO then Steam. Get the cavs into action, kick off our GA and add about 10 spt to the 2 Wonder builds cutting down the completion time. Then RR around our Wonder cities first.
Can we use some of obsolete troops or workers to slow down OTTO & ZUL inroads into ENG.
No one has MT yet. So we're agreed we should do MT next plus build some conquistadores (actually Spanish Missionaries in GOTM/vanilla)?
Why do Economics before Steam? That's the concern I had when I stopped. Even with our GA it's going to be 20 turns before we complete 600 shields in Entremont. 4 turns for MT then 6 turns or less for Steam still leaves us 10 turns to research Economics. And if someone else does it for us by then we save the 4 turns of research it will take.
Re. using workers or obsolete units to block the attackers, good thinking, but we'll need all the workers we can get in order to get our rails built, so I don't want to sacrifice them in or near England until we can be sure to get them back again. I think Karasu managed to disband most of our really obsolete units, but I'll have a look around.
Why do Economics before Steam? That's the concern I had when I stopped. Even with our GA it's going to be 20 turns before we complete 600 shields in Entremont. 4 turns for MT then 6 turns or less for Steam still leaves us 10 turns to research Economics. And if someone else does it for us by then we save the 4 turns of research it will take.
Re. using workers or obsolete units to block the attackers, good thinking, but we'll need all the workers we can get in order to get our rails built, so I don't want to sacrifice them in or near England until we can be sure to get them back again. I think Karasu managed to disband most of our really obsolete units, but I'll have a look around.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Mainly so I don't forget. 
No real preference other than once we start on the IA techs we could forget that ECON is still needed, since it wont shoe on the current Tech Tree page.
EDIT: Just noticed it's almost a complete page of posts from the 3 of us.
I must have picked this up from the XTeam.
No real preference other than once we start on the IA techs we could forget that ECON is still needed, since it wont shoe on the current Tech Tree page.EDIT: Just noticed it's almost a complete page of posts from the 3 of us.
I must have picked this up from the XTeam.Tomoyo
Fate
ECON (Why are we using these capital prefixes again?) only becomes needed when we plan on using wealth. We don't need it for Smiths until our prebuild runs out. Normally I would rush toward ST, but in this situation, if we can use cavalry to take some English cities, I would lean toward MT.
we have military tradition in 630 ad. ottoman wants it and will pay 122 gpt and other stuff. not nationalism though.
@tomoyo - red sox playing again tonight, then?
this post is a lower-case zone.
@tomoyo - red sox playing again tonight, then?
this post is a lower-case zone.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
The caps are a habit I've developed in my note taking for xOTMs. That way when I'm putting together my spoiler posts the techs stand out. I use caps on all trades, initial contacts, cities I found, and techs.
Summary:
We have Newton's and Smith's, both built by Leaders. We have a dozen cavalry who have taken two English cities. We are researching Steam at a six turn rate, and we have a Spanish Missionary heading for his detiny at the front. We have a Palace pre-build still in progress in Barcelona. Maybe could be used for ToE?
Turn log:
550 AD Preturn. Waken workers to ensure there are no go to actions left.
Set Entremont to J S Bach (32 turns) and Barcelona to Copernicus (22 turns).
Send a knight forward to look at the situaiton around Canterbury.
Cities look OK. hit next turn.
Indians and Ottomans heading north. Zulus pillage Canterbury and lay seige to it.
560 AD. Workers work.
IBT Zulus take Canterbury. English counter-atack Zulus. English knight attacks our scouting knight and dies.
Toledo completes knight, starts knight.
570 AD. Slider 2.8.0 for ToG next turn at 102 gpt. We are still at tech parity.
IBT Aztecs sign MA with England vs. Zulus. There's an English musket heading for Asturias, which is unguarded.
Complete ToG, switch to big picture and deal with Ottomans. We take 30 gpt+25 gold - not quite all he has. He now has Nationalism, but won't trade. We can't buy for gpt. - our rep is shot.
Mohacs completes Library, starts Barracks.
Eboracum completes Setter, starts Barracks.
Our Japanese architect adds a second floor to the west wing.
India completes Copernicus in Delhi.
580 AD Switch Barcelona to Newton's University (19 turns)
4/4 knight attacks English 4/4 musket and retreats. Musket-> 2/4.
5/5 knight attacks 2/4 musket and kills losing 1 hit point and creating Great Leader Cordoba [dance]
Toledo starts and finishes Newton's University with Cordoba's help. Barcelona works on a Palace pre-build for Smiths.
Slider 3.7.0 for Navigation in 4 turns @ 201 gpt.
IBT Indians arrive at teh English border and English LBs aand swords kill two elephants.
2 English LB approach the border.
Seville completes market, starts harbour.
Toledo completes Newton's University, starts knight
Ciudad de la Luna market->knight
We commission our Moorish architect to raise a second floor on the Palace east wing. There's a general rush for culture by the AI to start Bach and Shakespeare.
590 AD. Try for another leader by killing two LGs and a 3/5 axeman with elite knights. No luck this time. A fourth elite knight retreats from a 4/4 LB.
Five civs have Navigation. We give ToG to Zulus for Navigation + WM.
After brief discussion in the thread we switch to Mil Tradition in 4 turns @ Slider 2.8.0 for 137 gpt.
IBT Aztecs complain and auto-eject our galley. The Ottomans, Zulus and Indians continue to trample north through our Keltic lands.
Madrid knight->Spanish Missionary
Lugdonum Library->Aqueduct
Vitoria Library->Aqueduct
600 AD. Vet knight dies vs knight. Elite knight kills knight.
IBT. Indian elephants attack London. Zulus attack York. English LB dies vsa our knight.
Valencia market -> Sp. missionary
Pamplona market->harbour
Casa de Nikofa market->knight
Ottomans complete Bach's Cathedral
610 AD. Slider 3.7.0 for Mil Tradition in 2 turns @208 gpt. Entremont falls abck to a university.
IBT Zulus raze York. An opportunity for our settler.
Mohacs barracks->market
Verulamium Library->aqueduct
Murcia University->knight
Aldea de Rbannamarket->university
America completes Magellan's Voyage.
620 AD. Elite knight kills 3/4 LB and produces Great Leaader Bartolome [dance].
Bartolome can just reach Mohacs, and does. Settler heads for the coastal site where York once stood.
IBT. India and Aztecs ally vs Zulus. We now have the two amies fighting on our territory. Ottoman troops approach London, and are pushed back by English forces.
We complete Mil Tradition, start Steam, and open the big picture. Several civs have large gpt surpluses. I figure we'd better grab some to fund our growing research budget and so that we can save up for upgrades and trades.
Ottomans give 122gpt + 20 gols + WM + Free Artistry + WM.
Jaan gives 41gpt + 40 gold + WM
America gives 70 gpt + 22 gold + WM
Aztecs give 58 gpt + WM.
Entremont university -> barracks
Richborough library->aqueduct
Santiago university->cavalry
630 AD. Iroquois has Economics, so do some others. Now that's timing
Buy Economics from Iroquois or 725 gold. Bartolome completes Smith's in Mohacs.
2 elite knights kill 2 LBs outside London, and we upgrade 12 vet and elite* knights to cavalry for 240 gold.
Slider 1.10.0 for 273 gpt.
IBT. More fighting. Complete Smiths in Mohacs, worker.
Ottomans complote Shakespeare's Theatre. Cascade to Bach's.
640 AD. Attack Liverpool. 2 cavs retreat, one dies, 2 kill 2/4 muskets and an elite knight kills a redlined musket to take the city.
IBT. Ottoman knights attack London.
Paris completes a settler->settler
Mohacs worker->worker
Ciudad de la Luna Missionary->university.
Besançon library->courthouse
Vallalanh market->university
650 AD. Attack Nottingham. 1 cav dies, redlines a vet musket. 2 kill reg muskets, 1 kills the first AI cavalry we've seen, teh last cav kills the redlined musket to take Nottingham with 7 gold and 2 workers. Nottingham is not connected to the rest of our glorious republic yet, so the two workers start a road.
Our settler builds Valladolid on teh ruins of York, and an elite knight kills a LB.
There's a Spanish Missionary on his away to find a victim to allow our Golden Age to start. We have Steam in 5 turns and our workers are mostly on short tem cotracts, ready to start rail operations (or to connect up our coal ??). I haven't upgraded any elite knights, but there are still some vets around to be upgraded. There's also a stack of cats we could upgrade in Mohacs if we feel the need. I didn't do it because our road network is not adequate over there, so they'd travel one tile per turn and slow our cavs down.
Here's the save.
We have Newton's and Smith's, both built by Leaders. We have a dozen cavalry who have taken two English cities. We are researching Steam at a six turn rate, and we have a Spanish Missionary heading for his detiny at the front. We have a Palace pre-build still in progress in Barcelona. Maybe could be used for ToE?
Turn log:
550 AD Preturn. Waken workers to ensure there are no go to actions left.
Set Entremont to J S Bach (32 turns) and Barcelona to Copernicus (22 turns).
Send a knight forward to look at the situaiton around Canterbury.
Cities look OK. hit next turn.
Indians and Ottomans heading north. Zulus pillage Canterbury and lay seige to it.
560 AD. Workers work.
IBT Zulus take Canterbury. English counter-atack Zulus. English knight attacks our scouting knight and dies.
Toledo completes knight, starts knight.
570 AD. Slider 2.8.0 for ToG next turn at 102 gpt. We are still at tech parity.
IBT Aztecs sign MA with England vs. Zulus. There's an English musket heading for Asturias, which is unguarded.
Complete ToG, switch to big picture and deal with Ottomans. We take 30 gpt+25 gold - not quite all he has. He now has Nationalism, but won't trade. We can't buy for gpt. - our rep is shot.
Mohacs completes Library, starts Barracks.
Eboracum completes Setter, starts Barracks.
Our Japanese architect adds a second floor to the west wing.
India completes Copernicus in Delhi.
580 AD Switch Barcelona to Newton's University (19 turns)
4/4 knight attacks English 4/4 musket and retreats. Musket-> 2/4.
5/5 knight attacks 2/4 musket and kills losing 1 hit point and creating Great Leader Cordoba [dance]
Toledo starts and finishes Newton's University with Cordoba's help. Barcelona works on a Palace pre-build for Smiths.
Slider 3.7.0 for Navigation in 4 turns @ 201 gpt.
IBT Indians arrive at teh English border and English LBs aand swords kill two elephants.
2 English LB approach the border.
Seville completes market, starts harbour.
Toledo completes Newton's University, starts knight
Ciudad de la Luna market->knight
We commission our Moorish architect to raise a second floor on the Palace east wing. There's a general rush for culture by the AI to start Bach and Shakespeare.
590 AD. Try for another leader by killing two LGs and a 3/5 axeman with elite knights. No luck this time. A fourth elite knight retreats from a 4/4 LB.
Five civs have Navigation. We give ToG to Zulus for Navigation + WM.
After brief discussion in the thread we switch to Mil Tradition in 4 turns @ Slider 2.8.0 for 137 gpt.
IBT Aztecs complain and auto-eject our galley. The Ottomans, Zulus and Indians continue to trample north through our Keltic lands.
Madrid knight->Spanish Missionary
Lugdonum Library->Aqueduct
Vitoria Library->Aqueduct
600 AD. Vet knight dies vs knight. Elite knight kills knight.
IBT. Indian elephants attack London. Zulus attack York. English LB dies vsa our knight.
Valencia market -> Sp. missionary
Pamplona market->harbour
Casa de Nikofa market->knight
Ottomans complete Bach's Cathedral
610 AD. Slider 3.7.0 for Mil Tradition in 2 turns @208 gpt. Entremont falls abck to a university.
IBT Zulus raze York. An opportunity for our settler.
Mohacs barracks->market
Verulamium Library->aqueduct
Murcia University->knight
Aldea de Rbannamarket->university
America completes Magellan's Voyage.
620 AD. Elite knight kills 3/4 LB and produces Great Leaader Bartolome [dance].
Bartolome can just reach Mohacs, and does. Settler heads for the coastal site where York once stood.
IBT. India and Aztecs ally vs Zulus. We now have the two amies fighting on our territory. Ottoman troops approach London, and are pushed back by English forces.
We complete Mil Tradition, start Steam, and open the big picture. Several civs have large gpt surpluses. I figure we'd better grab some to fund our growing research budget and so that we can save up for upgrades and trades.
Ottomans give 122gpt + 20 gols + WM + Free Artistry + WM.
Jaan gives 41gpt + 40 gold + WM
America gives 70 gpt + 22 gold + WM
Aztecs give 58 gpt + WM.
Entremont university -> barracks
Richborough library->aqueduct
Santiago university->cavalry
630 AD. Iroquois has Economics, so do some others. Now that's timing
Buy Economics from Iroquois or 725 gold. Bartolome completes Smith's in Mohacs.
2 elite knights kill 2 LBs outside London, and we upgrade 12 vet and elite* knights to cavalry for 240 gold.
Slider 1.10.0 for 273 gpt.
IBT. More fighting. Complete Smiths in Mohacs, worker.
Ottomans complote Shakespeare's Theatre. Cascade to Bach's.
640 AD. Attack Liverpool. 2 cavs retreat, one dies, 2 kill 2/4 muskets and an elite knight kills a redlined musket to take the city.
IBT. Ottoman knights attack London.
Paris completes a settler->settler
Mohacs worker->worker
Ciudad de la Luna Missionary->university.
Besançon library->courthouse
Vallalanh market->university
650 AD. Attack Nottingham. 1 cav dies, redlines a vet musket. 2 kill reg muskets, 1 kills the first AI cavalry we've seen, teh last cav kills the redlined musket to take Nottingham with 7 gold and 2 workers. Nottingham is not connected to the rest of our glorious republic yet, so the two workers start a road.
Our settler builds Valladolid on teh ruins of York, and an elite knight kills a LB.
There's a Spanish Missionary on his away to find a victim to allow our Golden Age to start. We have Steam in 5 turns and our workers are mostly on short tem cotracts, ready to start rail operations (or to connect up our coal ??). I haven't upgraded any elite knights, but there are still some vets around to be upgraded. There's also a stack of cats we could upgrade in Mohacs if we feel the need. I didn't do it because our road network is not adequate over there, so they'd travel one tile per turn and slow our cavs down.
Here's the save.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Very nice turns Alan. 
Your even filled your quota of 2 GLs that Mistfit said all the Gold Wingers had to get. Nice timing on them and the trades.
Your even filled your quota of 2 GLs that Mistfit said all the Gold Wingers had to get. Nice timing on them and the trades.
That's great news! 
I was away yesterday and have to run away now, but:
- I must say that I normally ignore Democracy, but given that we are religious and we will want more efficient workers to build railroads, why notdo the switch?
- I would pick the Ottomans as our trading partners rather than plan an invasion. This would mean to try to help them get their Golden Age as soon as possible, and not to drain all their money.
We will also need funding, so I think that we should pick one or two more civs to "help" and do drain the others. Zulus maybe? And what about the other continent? I really don't know...
I was away yesterday and have to run away now, but:
- I must say that I normally ignore Democracy, but given that we are religious and we will want more efficient workers to build railroads, why notdo the switch?
- I would pick the Ottomans as our trading partners rather than plan an invasion. This would mean to try to help them get their Golden Age as soon as possible, and not to drain all their money.
We will also need funding, so I think that we should pick one or two more civs to "help" and do drain the others. Zulus maybe? And what about the other continent? I really don't know...
Mistfit
Deity
Wonderful turns Alan! Looks like we are getting in position to make a push towards the Skies.
We have no war weariness right now, but I don't know how we'd fare in Democracy. Remember you get the effect of any accumulated war weariness points as soon as you revolt, so the unit deaths we've experienced from the English could hit is immediately. Sure we could flip back again., but that's still two turns of lost research and cash and production.
There seems to be a lot of gpt available at the moment, so I didn't feel too bad about taking some in exchange for MT. They all had something left over after the deals. Isn't it better to take what they'll give you and then gift some of it back, rather than under-price the tech you're selling? That way you can get some brownie points for the gift.
We've traded Ottomans MT, but I haven't seen any Sipahi yet. I imagine they'll show up and trigger their GA soon, as England has already produced one cav that I killed
There seems to be a lot of gpt available at the moment, so I didn't feel too bad about taking some in exchange for MT. They all had something left over after the deals. Isn't it better to take what they'll give you and then gift some of it back, rather than under-price the tech you're selling? That way you can get some brownie points for the gift.
We've traded Ottomans MT, but I haven't seen any Sipahi yet. I imagine they'll show up and trigger their GA soon, as England has already produced one cav that I killed
Mistfit
Deity
One Silver wing question -
In general if you are going for a space victory isn't have a squeeky clean rep typically very important?
Did our's get trashed by wiping out the Keltoi when we had MA's against them? Was it worth it? Will we be able to get it back? I
In general if you are going for a space victory isn't have a squeeky clean rep typically very important?
Did our's get trashed by wiping out the Keltoi when we had MA's against them? Was it worth it? Will we be able to get it back? I
