Karzai compelled to join the Taliban

[Karalysia]

It occurs to me that an even better course of action is available. Just pull out of Afghanistan entirely and leave his ass there. Just see how well the Taliban welcomes him to their ranks. I got a feeling it wont go exactly as he thinks.

Thats the nuclear option which won't happen. Not if we want a hope in hell of keeping Al-Qaida out of it and keeping Pakistan stable.

Our best bet is to set up Karzai or someone else as a dictator. Or alternatively invite the Taliban to negotiatians and extract a promise that they won't let terrorist groups operate, and then hand over Afghanistan to them.

 

[Traitorfish]

It occurs to me that an even better course of action is available. Just pull out of Afghanistan entirely and leave his ass there. Just see how well the Taliban welcomes him to their ranks. I got a feeling it wont go exactly as he thinks.

Now your using your noodle.

 

[Tani Coyote]

MobBoss' proposal reminds me of what a Polish friend of mine once suggested:

Her first proposal was that we should have made a sandbox out of Iraq. Another Polish friend of hers agreed.

Her later proposal was that, instead, we should pull all our troops out of most of Iraq and line them along the borders, so as to keep foreign countries from intervening. Obviously, this means we let all the various factions massacre eachother while we sit back until the dust has cleared and then take over/align with the victorious government.

 

[innonimatu]

Thats the nuclear option which won't happen. Not if we want a hope in hell of keeping Al-Qaida out of it and keeping Pakistan stable.

Keeping Pakistan stable?! It is Pakistan which is interfering in Afghanistan, and has been since the 1980s (when it served american interests there)! I have to wonder if they are doing it now also at the behest of the US military planners.

I've said it before and say it again now: the whole american strategy behind the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq is to keep those territories unstable. A stable Afghanistan will be independent - it won't be either a pawn of the US, or of Pakistan, or or any others. The last thing which the most powerful of the "outside powers" intervening in another country wants is stability, because that will end the pretext (and, more importantly, the opportunities) for intervention, for controlling the political evolution there. Unless that power is convinced it will be able to control the country in the "stable" scenario (which only happens if there are no important competitors - not the case in these two wars), the game is all about maintaining the instability - that instability favors the outside power which is militarily more powerful on the terrain.

There is no special long-term strategy in this kind of fight. It's about keeping control over as much as possible, for as long as possible. Those wars were never meant to end, not before the capacity to continue them is exhausted.

 

[RedRalph]

I say we send him a pic with Saddam with a noose around his neck and say 'make our day, huckleberry'.

That's weird, because a few months ago you argued very forcefully here that his election was good for democracy in Afghanistan. Do you still think that?

 

[downtown]

NPR interviewed one of the members of parliment, and he made it sound like Karzai has done this stuff before, and he's a little unstable/paranoid. Maybe he's bluffing to drum up support?

 

[RedRalph]

NPR interviewed one of the members of parliment, and he made it sound like Karzai has done this stuff before, and he's a little unstable/paranoid. Maybe he's bluffing to drum up support?

Well, he previously threatened to sign an alliance with Russia, so I suspect allo is not well in his head. I can only imagine what the Kremlin thought of that.

 

[Karalysia]

If Karzai was capable enough of ruling as a dictator we should allow him. Unfortunatley he is not capable enough. So we must either find a capable dictator or we must allow the Taliban into the government. There really is no other option.

 

[MobBoss]

That's weird, because a few months ago you argued very forcefully here that his election was good for democracy in Afghanistan. Do you still think that?

Sure. He hasnt gone dark side yet has he?

In other words 'meaningless threat is meaningless'. He isnt going to follow through on that in a million years and its just hot air. We both know that.

Btw, dont misrepresent my earlier comments either. The election was good...but not because it elected Karzai per se, simply because they are having elections. The other guy could have won and the election still would have been a good thing.

 

[RedRalph]

Sure. He hasnt gone dark side yet has he?

In other words 'meaningless threat is meaningless'. He isnt going to follow through on that in a million years and its just hot air. We both know that.

Btw, dont misrepresent my earlier comments either. The election was good...but not because it elected Karzai per se, simply because they are having elections. The other guy could have won and the election still would have been a good thing.

The election was fraudulent and produced him as a winner, something you still, unbelievably, maintain was good for democracy. But given the fact that you apparently think its OK for your allies to threaten to join the Taliban right up til the moment they do, I've got a pretty good opinion about, I have a pretty good idea how much you know about Afghanistan

 

[MobBoss]

The election was fraudulent

Nope. Did it have problems? Sure. Even elections here in the USA have problems sometimes. But that doesnt mean it was fraudulent, and even Obama said the process worked.

and produced him as a winner, something you still, unbelievably, maintain was good for democracy.

Public elections are good for democracy. I mean really RRW, this is only what...the 2nd or 3rd election they have ever had? And you expect it to go flawlessly? Give it a break.

But given the fact that you apparently think its OK for your allies to threaten to join the Taliban right up til the moment they do, I've got a pretty good opinion about, I have a pretty good idea how much you know about Afghanistan

Rhetoric. People say and threaten things they have no intention of doing all the time. You do understand this dont you?

Tell you what. If Karzai up and joins the taliban, you call give me the neener neener all you want. But if he doesnt, at least admit you were wrong. Deal?

 

[RedRalph]

Nope. Did it have problems? Sure. Even elections here in the USA have problems sometimes. But that doesnt mean it was fraudulent, and even Obama said the process worked.

It was fraudulent, that is a matter of indisputable fact, MB.

Public elections are good for democracy. I mean really RRW, this is only what...the 2nd or 3rd election they have ever had? And you expect it to go flawlessly? Give it a break.

Flawlessly? No. Not so embarassingly badly that foreing countries have to force a second round where the challenger refused to participate because the first round was so fraudulent he wouldn't even bother with the second? Yes.

You are actually defending the last Afghan election as a good thing Do you have any idea how laughable that is?

Rhetoric. People say and threaten things they have no intention of doing all the time. You do understand this dont you?

Tell you what. If Karzai up and joins the taliban, you call give me the neener neener all you want. But if he doesnt, at least admit you were wrong. Deal?

No deal. If you cannot see that your 'ally' threatening to join the Taliban, the Taliban for Jaysus' sake!!! isnt a bad thing, then... well, then I don't know what to say, MB.

It would be interesting to see if anyone agrees with you on this though. I can think of at least one guy who probably will. Do you realise you are by far and away the staunchest defender of Hamid Karzai I have ever encountered, even though he's threatening to join the Taliban!!!! this is just too funny

 

[Karalysia]

And not only was it fradulent, Karzai actively attempted to rig it by trying to get the power to appoint his people to positions on the election board which brought about his threath to join the Taliban. Afghanistan is quickly slipping from the US.

 

[MobBoss]

It was fraudulent, that is a matter of indisputable fact, MB.

Tell it to Obama. Did fraud occur? Sure. Does that make the election fraudulent? Not necessarily.

And its going to take a lot more than a few CFC OT posters claiming it was to make it so.

Flawlessly? No. Not so embarassingly badly that foreing countries have to force a second round where the challenger refused to participate because the first round was so fraudulent he wouldn't even bother with the second? Yes.

So, the process worked. And the challenger, instead of losing a run-off election decided to quit. /oh well.

You are actually defending the last Afghan election as a good thing Do you have any idea how laughable that is?

Well, its laughable to you, but I dont pretend to get your sense of humor.

And sure, the ongoing democratic process is a good thing in Afghanistan. They are only showing baby steps right now, and it should get better with more practice down the road. Just because the baby may fall down on occasion isnt reason to say its a failure.

No deal.

So, when the rubber hits the road...you hit the road. Apparently you dont think he was serious either.

If you cannot see that your 'ally' threatening to join the Taliban, the Taliban for Jaysus' sake!!! isnt a bad thing, then... well, then I don't know what to say, MB.

Then take my offer, if you think its such a bad thing. Come on, put your money where your mouth is.

It would be interesting to see if anyone agrees with you on this though. I can think of at least one guy who probably will. Do you realise you are by far and away the staunchest defender of Hamid Karzai I have ever encountered, even though he's threatening to join the Taliban!!!! this is just too funny

I havent defended Karzai. I am defending the process that got him elected. I could care less if Karzai is in power or not. At least try to be honest in understanding my opinion when I give it.

 

[RedRalph]

OK, I'll just ask for a yes or not answer: Is Karzai threatening (threatening, not joining) to join the Taliban a bad thing?

 

[nonconformist]

I dunno, at least the Taliban can organise a piss up in a brewery.

 

[Ayatollah So]

So we must either find a capable dictator or we must allow the Taliban into the government. There really is no other option.

I thought allowing the Taliban into the government, as an end-point of negotiations, was already unofficial US policy. And considered to be at least an option by Karzai's government as well.

 

[RebelYeller]

I strongly suspect Karzai is pulling a Joesph Hooker on us.


Karzai threatens to quite his Presidency and join Taliban if he doesn't get more power(More power over elections it seems).

Yep Hooker made a similar threat to quite his generalship of the Army Of The Potomoc(Although he never planned to defect) if he didn't get more power. (More power over the army.)


However neither of them would actually enjoy carrying their threats out.


Thus both are bluffing.


***end result for Hook***

Hooker badly overestimated his value and found his offer of resignation accepted by Lincoln.



***Likly end result for Karzai****


Nothing. Yep. Obama and Karzai need each other equally.


SO nothing to see here.

 

[bombshoo]

Someone needs to link Karzai to the wiki article on Ngo Diem or something...

 

[Labtec600]

So he stood up and banged his chest while speaking to other members of the government who, apparently from the way it was written, were not supporting him?

Does the US president not do this daily?