Kim Jong Il Has Died

[Ayn Rand]

So what are they? I'd like to know what to call their government.

Their political philosophy is called Juche. I've also heard them describe themselves as "the World's last socialism."

It is essentially aimed at creating a communist society, but with very strong Korean cultural and national characteristics, probably due to their bitter experiences of colonial exploitation. They seem to believe it is exportable, but needs to be modified to each national culture and its situation. It has an extreme emphasis on what we would call "isolationism" and "national self-reliance". Thus it aims at

1.Political independence [chaju]
2.Economic self-sustenance [charip]
3.Self-reliance in defense [chawi]


And its internal social principles are:

1.The people must have independence (chajusong) in thought and politics, economic self-sufficiency, and self-reliance in defense.
2.Policy must reflect the will and aspirations of the masses and employ them fully in revolution and construction.
3.Methods of revolution and construction must be suitable to the situation of the country.
4.The most important work of revolution and construction is molding people ideologically as communists and mobilizing them to constructive action.

 

[Traitorfish]

So what are they? I'd like to know what to call their government.

The official political ideology is the Juche Idea, juche meaning something like "self-reliance", and they usually describe themselves as a "Juche state", which is understood as describing a state in which the Korean "masses" control the government and the economy. (A comparison might be made to Gaddafi's concept of "Jamahiriya", or "great state of the masses".) The military is designated as the "leading class" (rather than the working class, as in Marxism-Leninism, or the working class and peasantry, as in Maoism), and the state is organised on an explicitly nationalist, even racialist basis. It originally began as a sort of post-Stalinism with Maoist influences, but in the '90s it was declared (apparently retroactively) to be an "original revolutionary philosophy", which not merely constituted the most sophisticated form of Marxism (as with the other hermit-king of the communist world, Enver Hoxha), but a distinct body of philosophy and theory which superseded it altogether.

(Edit: Sort-of-crosspost with Ayn Rand.)

 

[Tycho]

Trying to dig up the clip at the moment from an old National Geographic documentary inside of North Korea, in which a family living in North Korea said quite literally this:

Our bonds here in North Korea are stronger than America's nuclear weapons.

Okay, makes sense since North Korea can form a human shield of people to block about eight thousand or so warheads... or however many the US has to raze the surface of the Earth and burn off the oceans and atmosphere five times over.

 

[Azale]

Their political philosophy is called Juche. I've also heard them describe themselves as "the World's last socialism."

It is essentially aimed at creating a communist society, but with very strong Korean cultural and national characteristics, probably due to their bitter experiences of colonial exploitation. They seem to believe it is exportable, but needs to be modified to each national culture and its situation. It has an extreme emphasis on what we would call "isolationism" and "national self-reliance". Thus it aims at

1.Political independence [chaju]
2.Economic self-sustenance [charip]
3.Self-reliance in defense [chawi]


And its internal social principles are:

1.The people must have independence (chajusong) in thought and politics, economic self-sufficiency, and self-reliance in defense.
2.Policy must reflect the will and aspirations of the masses and employ them fully in revolution and construction.
3.Methods of revolution and construction must be suitable to the situation of the country.
4.The most important work of revolution and construction is molding people ideologically as communists and mobilizing them to constructive action.

That's cool and all, but the military and a competing group of powerful families/elites/economic leeches run the country. They have a vested interest in sucking North Korea dry, keeping labor costs low for potential whoring out to China and SK, and maintaining the political status quo. It's a kleptocratic autarky, most of the masses are disillusioned with the state and are kept in line through coercion.

"Juche" is a relic of the Sino-Soviet split, when Kim Il Sung sought a way to differentiate the DPRK from its neighbors. "Songun" (military first) is the new ideological front, but when you can't keep your soldiers fed on 50%+ of the national budget then your government long ago ceased to serve anyone than the absolute top of the food chain.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm really not sure why you're presenting the basic spuriousness of a Stalinist regime's nominal ideology as if it's a new discovery, as opposed to something that anybody who's cared to pay attention has known since about 1926.

 

[Takhisis]

Doesn't Juche imply the notion of Koreans being a superior people and the dear Eternal President being a demigod who will deliver them of the Western corruption etc. etc.?

 

[Mosher]

Doesn't Juche imply the notion of Koreans being a superior people and the dear Eternal President being a demigod who will deliver them of the Western corruption etc. etc.?

North Korea is best Korea!

 

[ParkCungHee]

I'm really not sure why you're presenting the basic spuriousness of a Stalinist regime's nominal ideology as if it's a new discovery, as opposed to something that anybody who's cared to pay attention has known since about 1926.

I care to!

 

[Traitorfish]

I care to!

I don't follow?

(Although if you're disagreeing with the comment about "basic spuriousness", then, yeah, you're probably right. I'll admit that's a gross over-simplification of the historical reality.)

 

[Ayn Rand]

I don't follow?

(Although if you're disagreeing with the comment about "basic spuriousness", then, yeah, you're probably right. I'll admit that's a gross over-simplification of the historical reality.)

Yep, even I felt a slight twinge here - as Stalin was quite consistent about some of his ideology, such as socialism in one country.

 

[Traitorfish]

That's the tricky bit, I suppose- figuring out where "this is what I actually believe" ends and "this is me plastering paper-thin justifications over stuff I was going to do anyway" begins. For a start, it's quite likely that the distinction is on our part, and not on theirs, so any attempt to find a neat delineation is quite hopeless.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

Was I the first person to notice that Kim Jong Il and Qaddafi were born in the same year.

 

[Traitorfish]

That's only in the DPRK records. Soviet records have him down as being born a year earlier. As I understand it, they changed it so that they could claim he was born in Korea itself, while in 1941 Kim Il Sung was still kicking about in Russia.

 

[ParkCungHee]

I don't follow?

I'm sorry, I misread your post. Someday I'll learn not to post on low sleep.

 

[timtofly]

I'm sorry, I misread your post. Someday I'll learn not to post on low sleep.

it can't be as bad as socialist gangs.

 

[Takhisis]

I'm sorry, I misread your post. Someday I'll learn not to post on low sleep.

Everyone does that.

Can someone answer my query about North Korean nationalism/triumphalism?

 

[Algeroth]

Maybe they'll finally finish the gigantic hotel they planned on building.

Thy started finishing it few years ago. They finished exteriors this year a plan to open it in 2012.