Kooky beliefs: Why?

[Valka D'Ur]

This is one of the main things I think about nearly every day. I figure the bolded is the most important factor--much of the time, even otherwise reasonable people succumb to the temptation to believe in things not because they're true, but because believing provides comfort, pride, and other benefits. A lot of times, they don't even think that that sort of wishful thinking is to be avoided; they just want to be happy or proud.

Sometimes they want to be excessively proud. Apparently atheists don't volunteer, don't do first response/rescue work, don't donate to charity, or even do favors for people. At least according to some of the more obnoxious religious people I've interacted with on some sites.

And it gets worse when combined with the natural tendency to connect the idea of being right with one's self-worth. ... That's why people are usually less defensive about being contradicted when the other person takes them aside to talk in private instead of publicly challenging them.

Usually, yes. Unfortunately, some people seem to prefer to air everything in public instead of having a (hopefully) quieter conversation in private.

And then there's the issue of conspiracy theories and their devotees. ... To an anti-vaxxer, any article that suggests that vaccines cause autism is undeniable proof that they do, even if it was written in a tabloid by someone with no knowledge of medicine or mental health. If they come across anything that says that vaccines don't cause autism, they'll say it's proof that Big Pharma is lying to cover it up. They are utterly, hopelessly incorrigible.

I've been called a "vaccine priestess" by one of the more rabid anti-vaxxers, and accused by quite a few of them of being "a paid shill for Big Pharma."

Anybody know how I can get in touch with "Big Pharma" and demand my back wages for advocating vaccinations for flu and measles (among others)? They haven't paid me so much as a counterfeit Canadian penny for my trouble.

I was trying to illustrate that I wouldn't watch a seven part video series of any kind...so, no.

So you've never watched more than six episodes of any TV series? Never seen more than 6 episodes of any documentary series?

I'll give you a pass on the latter if you bailed after 6 episodes of NDT's version of Cosmos (the Disney-type cartoon parts really annoyed me), but all 13 episodes of Carl Sagan's version are still very watchable even allowing that some of the information is decades out of date.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I find it fascinating and maddening.

A good friend of mine, who can have an intelligent conversation about any number of topics, is a Young Earth Creationist.

An intelligent man I once spoke to about race issues believed in the lost continent of Mu which, according to him, was once populated by a staggeringly advanced civilization of people who became Africans.

I've known people who think vaccines cause autism, who believed 9/11 was a controlled detonation, who reject anything short of outlandish, global conspiracies to explain JFK's assassination. Abiotic oil, homeopathy, ESP, remote viewing, etc. My own father insists that we used Bin Laden in a false-flag attack and then disposed of him.

I notice all of these beliefs give people something they want, be it racial pride, validation of their religion, support for their politics, etc.

But my question is: How do seemingly clear-headed people persist in obviously false beliefs? How can you be smart enough to dress yourself, study the issue, and REALLY think the Noah's Ark story occurred? Etc.

Sometimes I don't get it. Most people who believe one of these things reject most/all of the other beliefs just as strongly as people who appear to hold zero kooky beliefs, and for the same reasons, but they can't seem to make the leap to abandoning Mu, or Noah's Ark, or the efficacy of homeopathic cures, etc.

I thought JFK was a decent man and president but from today I know he was just a kooky believer:


Link to video.

 

[red_elk]

May be it's just me, but I often see strange similarity between people who hold "kooky" beliefs and the people who are obsessed about disproving them.

 

[Gori the Grey]

For some people, believing that 911 was carried out by the US government is like being a Red socks fan.

Actually, there's good evidence that the 9-11 attacks were carried out by Red Sox fans. Think about it. The planes left from a Boston airport. Boston and New York are great sports rivals. It all kinda makes sense, doesn't it?

I recently reported on a conspiracy theory I heard floated on a CSPAN call-in show. The caller had seen a video at the DNC showing that Chelsea Clinton and Ivanka Trump are friends. The theory ran as follows. Ivanka wanted her friend's mom to be president, so she convinced her dad to run for office, then throw the election (this was about a week back when that's what it seemed to all outward appearances that Trump was doing). The Clintons were going to pay Donald Trump to do this and make sure the truth never got out.

What I was fascinated by was how quickly the prompt for the conspiracy theory dropped out of the conspiracy itself. If you hadn't previously known that Chelsea and Ivanka were friends that could easily seem a curious fact. So the mind starts searching for an explanation. But one, the explanation provided is loony. Why would Ivanka want her friend's mom to be President more than she wanted her own father to be president, if both were credible possibilities? But then, two, our agent for all of this, Ivanka, almost immediately drops out of the story. It's as though conspiracy theorists don't even have to square the fourth sentence in a four-sentence plotline with the first sentence.

If that's what one's up against, I don't think an infinity-part video series could explain how to talk a theorist out of his or her theory.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

If that's what one's up against, I don't think an infinity-part video series could explain how to talk a theorist out of his or her theory.

There is a difference between lazy gossip drivels and well founded conspiracy theories. The former one has to mercifully ignore but for the revelation of the other one can get shot.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm running as an outsider.

Sorry dude; with your 17k posts you have become a full fledged member of the community. Living in California doesn't give you a pass on being a member of the group.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So you've never watched more than six episodes of any TV series? Never seen more than 6 episodes of any documentary series?

Wow. Nicely taken out of context. You should look for a job with Breitbart.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Sorry dude; with your 17k posts you have become a full fledged member of the community. Living in California doesn't give you a pass on being a member of the group.

No one who runs as an outsider actually is an outsider.

Spoiler :

I was so hoping a good straight man would come along! You're the best!

 

[Hygro]

I have "kooky" beliefs. They lead me to non kooky truths, sometimes by short cut. They also drive beneficial behavior.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I thought JFK was a decent man and president but from today I know he was just a kooky believer:


Link to video.

He's talking about the Soviets.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Wow. Nicely taken out of context. You should look for a job with Breitbart.

You said:

I was trying to illustrate that I wouldn't watch a seven part video series of any kind

My comment wasn't out of context at all. You stated that you wouldn't watch a seven part video series of any kind. Cosmos (among others) is available on YouTube (video website) as a 13-part series. My question was pertinent.

I have no idea who or what "Breitbart" is.

 

[sophie]

To begin, if you want people to listen to or watch a video, you better make sure that the audio is understandable. It is not in the one posted above. I gave it 2 minutes and moved on.

It's a bit of a struggle, sure. I weighed that fact against the strength of the content, and the content is, I think, worth it. Make of that what you will.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I'm still far more interested in the psychology of someone who is so compelled to debunk 9/11 conspiracy theorists that they would watch a seven part video series on how to do it. I wouldn't watch a seven part video series on how to turn my coffee cup into solid gold even if I was convinced it would work.

That YT series is more about a scientist who is fascinated and bemused by the willful ignorance and persistence of 9/11 truthers. There isn't a lot of debunking.

All 9/11 truther claims that are falsifiable have already been debunked and buried for well over a decade. For instance, virtually every one should know how to debunk the "melting steel" argument by heart by now.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That YT series is more about a scientist who is fascinated and bemused by the willful ignorance and persistence of 9/11 truthers. There isn't a lot of debunking.

All 9/11 truther claims that are falsifiable have already been debunked and buried for well over a decade. For instance, virtually every one should know how to debunk the "melting steel" argument by heart by now.

I can't, because I just don't care. If someone wants to believe the World Trade Center was brought down during a battle between Godzilla and Mothra I don't see where it would make enough difference for me to worry about it.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

He's talking about the Soviets.

Dude, you wish. I dont think if communism was a secret ideology it would have spread around half of the globe...

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

All 9/11 truther claims that are falsifiable have already been debunked and buried for well over a decade. For instance, virtually every one should know how to debunk the "melting steel" argument by heart by now.

I have been looking into it a bit and apparently guy survived who have been on the floor above the place of the impact and walked down the stairs past the fire. An hour later the buildings collapses. Dont you just love fairy tales?

 

[Perfection]

I have a (signed!) book on that very topic: Why People Believe Weird Things

 

[W|M]

I have no idea who or what "Breitbart" is.

Alt-right news site that supports Trump, absolutely terrible

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Alt-right news site that supports Trump, absolutely terrible

To elaborate:

They are devoted advocates of Trump's "some people say" brand of journalism. They will write a whole article about the fact "some people say" that in all respects reads like it is covering whatever it is the people are saying. "Some people say that Bigfoot roams the north woods" can turn into a four hundred word testimonial that Bigfoot was seen with when and where.

They make no pretense regarding balance. If you are on their hit list you are dead to them, period, and facts are purely a luxury, not a necessity.

They are willing to assign any bad situation, real or imagined, to any combination of liberals, democrats, or leftists, depending apparently on a roll of the dice. For example, I'm not sure whether today it is the liberal media that controls the leftist polls, or the democrats that control the liberal leftist polls, but they don't feel any need to be consistent.

Speaking of polls, while they refuse to acknowledge any poll that shows Trump behind as a construct of <name enemy here>, their poll, which uses the tried and true "if you happen to be on our website click your preference" methodology they report results of extensively.

For them taking a statement about not watching seven part videos out of a conversation about a YouTube clip and making wild inferences about network series television would be mild, hence the reference.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I find it fascinating and maddening.

A good friend of mine, who can have an intelligent conversation about any number of topics, is a Young Earth Creationist.

To open ones mind once a while can be quite a fascinating experience. I strongly recommend it from my own experience. The reason for doing that in my case is a simple observation of how stupid and limited human intelligence is as well as how one-sided and exclusive it can be. Plus the fact that whatever we know more often then not we tend to apply wrongly or misuse.

An intelligent man I once spoke to about race issues believed in the lost continent of Mu which, according to him, was once populated by a staggeringly advanced civilization of people who became Africans.

I've known people who think vaccines cause autism, who believed 9/11 was a controlled detonation, who reject anything short of outlandish, global conspiracies to explain JFK's assassination. Abiotic oil, homeopathy, ESP, remote viewing, etc. My own father insists that we used Bin Laden in a false-flag attack and then disposed of him.

A lot of these things you cite seem to have some truth in them. Send greetings to your father, please.

I notice all of these beliefs give people something they want, be it racial pride, validation of their religion, support for their politics, etc.

But my question is: How do seemingly clear-headed people persist in obviously false beliefs? How can you be smart enough to dress yourself, study the issue, and REALLY think the Noah's Ark story occurred? Etc.

The Noah's Ark is a nice story if only mostly a symbolic but may have some truth behind it. But I seem to face the same difficulty when telling people that there is something terribly wrong with 9/11 official narrative. Bush said as an excuse that they couldnt stop the attacks becouse they couldnt imagine that terrorist could fly planes into the buildings! and the day after attack he admited that explosives has been used to bring down the buildings! Bush and half of his administration should have been in jail. But just like in the instances with the Bible there are reason why people cling to the less rational...

Sometimes I don't get it. Most people who believe one of these things reject most/all of the other beliefs just as strongly as people who appear to hold zero kooky beliefs, and for the same reasons, but they can't seem to make the leap to abandoning Mu, or Noah's Ark, or the efficacy of homeopathic cures, etc.

I have a feeling that efficiency of homeopatic has been proven by practise. Why it hasnt been grasped by science yet is another thing.

Anyways one of the reason we allow our beliefs to override our rational side because truth of our existence isnt exclusively rational but also both infra and supra-rational. Instinctively and sometimes consciously we are aware of that reality and we act accordingly.