Korea....

Is the inclusion of Korea a good idea?


  • Total voters
    275
i cant understand why Korea has been included as hasnt spent the majority of its lifetime under occupation from foreigners like Japan, Mongols and China.

A good replacement would be the Babylonians or Mayans
 
the reason is that there are many much Koreans to buy an extentionpack than Babylonians

I wouldn't be against a Korean civ if they added many new civs, but since they only add six new ones, I'd rather much have prefered to have Babilonians, Sumerians, Mayas or Hebrews than Koreans

never forget that the goal of firaxis is more to make profit than to give us a perfect game

anyway, I no longer choose my civ according to the ones I love, but according to their differents characteristics and to the type of game and victory that I want
 
I think Korea is a fine choice. Though there are more deserving candidates, they have a long, rich history and a vibrant and unique culture. Korea could've been great if it hadn't been wedged onto a peninsula by the mighty behemoth we called China...
 
Lance of Llanwy said:
I think Korea is a fine choice. Though there are more deserving candidates, they have a long, rich history and a vibrant and unique culture. Korea could've been great if it hadn't been wedged onto a peninsula by the mighty behemoth we called China...
it's not like China has been consistently strong, they've been conquered many times by outsiders (manchu's and mongols and japanese, etc.) but Korea hasn't done better than a stalemate against any aggressor, EVER.

It's not like Korea's UU is Comfort Women, but some of these posts are sound like stilted glowing praise.

European civs are overemphasized though, but korea isn't a great choice either when there's so many other good suggestions like Khmer/Siam/Babylon.
 
meh with a country like korea added it would only make sense to have canada, except korea has already had its age, canada is still making theirs
 
please, tell me what's so special about babylon, siam or the khmer? what is/are the exactly difference/s compared to korea?
has a civ to be victorious in EVERY battle to have the honour to be included into cIV? i thought the maintopic in civ is civilization, but war is NOT civilized. so, why has any freaking civ/nation to win 10 hand full of battles in history or expand the controlled territory 10 times the coreland to be in cIV?? explain it. i can't undstand.

lets have a look at babylon: well, inspite it has done good in battles, it has not lasted til today. the koreas haven't won wars, how some say(haven't proofed it), but it has succeded to be independent today and owns still in its unique culture. babylonian culture isn't more present today. wiki says, the (old)babylonian history begins 1900bc, the korean 2330bc. the babylonian ended 100bc to 0, the korean lasts still til today....
so, why is babylon so much more *worth* (i hate this word in this context) or important than korea?? hell, babylon was a just a empire (inspite it was one of the superpowers this time) in a area where a lot of other cultures were. egypt, the hittites, assyria, the indus-culture...etc...etc....
i mean, if korea wasn't so important how some say, why has it gone to be invaded so often in history? because of fun of the invaders? i think not.

every civ/ethnity IS WORTHY to be in cIV. the only reason why there aren't many is the limited *place*, not that civ A is less important then civ B. they are equal, but civ B has perhaps just won the democratic vote of the dev-team. thats it.
little hint: mod your favciv in if it isn't represented in the game.

good night, good fight :D
 
Why Korea, you ask? Has it ever concerned anybody that they and China and Japan had huge wars over the course of 1000 years?

Carthage is important. They nearly kicked the Roman's arse the second time around. But like Napoleon (later example), he just thought taking the capital would make them surrender.
He's wrong.
 
I don't agree Korea should be in the original, however, in an expansion it's quite a decent choice. It's similar to putting Robin in the sequel of Batman movies. Robin may not be the first line hero, but take him out the Batman story will not be complete. You take out Korea from the so-called Far East history it's not a complete history.

IMO, there are too many Eurocentered choices already. Although I'd like to see Portugese and Viking in the expansion.

No offence, from an "Asian-centered" perspective, many "great" European or European-related things, particularly those before industrial era, were actually not that great. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if the army of Alexander-the-Great continued their journey and reached China, which at that point a warlord (e.g. Qin's leader) could easily amass an army of a hundred thousand soldiers supported by state-owned production lines manufacturing standardized weapons on a large scale.
 
Korea should no doubt be in. If not only for the fact that one of the most controversial (sp) wars in history was a part of their country's threats. I think Rome and Carthage (no doubt great Civs of history) get too much glorification due to the fact they are ancient wars. Korea has played an important role in the world's modern writings of history. Not to mention their ancient history with China and Japan.

The tactics involved in the Vietnam War alone show their military prowess was way more advanced than the tactics used by westerners.
 
King Flevance said:
Korea has played an important role in the world's modern writings of history. Not to mention their ancient history with China and Japan.
.

Korea plays no roles in modern history. It'S someone else (the Chinese, the Americans, etc ...) who wrote Korean modern history. Korea has always been mentioned as battefield for big boys (China, USSR vs. Japan, USA)

King Flevance said:
The tactics involved in the Vietnam War alone show their military prowess was way more advanced than the tactics used by westerners.

The unhumanlly tactics against civilians just show how uncivilized they are. Its disgrace for them to join America to fight against their fellow asians. Btw, how come a country (who cant even fight on its own for its own fate) that took a small part in an important war is more important than countries that played the main roles in it
 
zx1111 said:
Did Korea never win a war? What do you expect? China was and is 20 times larger in population and 100 times in territory than that of Korea. (Japan is about about 3 times of Korea.) Korea is penensula and shares territorial border only with China.
More than that, China was world super power and much more prosperous country in the old age than all European nations at that time combined like USA of today. What do you expect if USA invades to Canada with all their might?
China had invaded Korea numerous times. But it is only 2 times in history when she succeeded in conquring Korea and letting Korean dynasty to be subject of China. (by Kubilai-Khan and Qing dynasty) And never succeeded in merging Korea to be Chinese territory. Korea remained as independent Kingdom through nealy whole history, though China had strong influence on Korea, which is similar to relationship of USA and Canada today.
It is not because of her millitary power but owes to its geo-political merit and skillful diplomacy with China and Japan.
There were many old tribes and old kingdoms around old China other than Korea and Japan. But nealy all country in East Asian continent were conqured and merged to Chinese dynasty and territory except Korea. Japan is island like Britain and could avoid invasion by China.

Korean is well deserved in Civ 4 expansion as model civilation that, small in territory and not so strong in military power but made a success in developing their own culture and economy, and frequently being invaded by super-powers but remains as independent civilization due to its geo-political merit and skillful diplomacy among super-powers.

I think that unique building of Korea should be educational institute which generates many cultural artists and scholars. No Korean traditional village is without Confucian school for chidren just as no European village is without Christian church.
Strong emphasis on education and achademic achivement is long and distinct tradition of Korea. Korea had national educational institute as early as in 7th Centry and advanced higer-eduaction institues as early as 10th Centry. Korea was ruled and run largly by highly-educated scholar-politicians, not by millitant "warlords" like Japan or Europe. This strong emphasis on eduaction is root of her economic success in modern era. Even in today, Korean student spends longest school hours and are under the fiercest academic competition in the world. Even the Japan is NO. 2 in this regards.

Actually the land area equivalent to part of modern North Korea has been a Chinese province during the Han dynasty

Basically the whole damn Far East is under the influence of Chinese culture, so I can accept Korea is a distinctive cultured civilization by itself
But did it exist as a great and successful civilization that has significant impact on human history? I doubt it
 
Actually the land area equivalent to part of modern North Korea has been a Chinese province during the Han dynasty

=> It's debatable where the exact location of the Han province is. I mean the province may existed in the land of China not in Korean peninsula. International co-study will find out more accurate info. :crazyeye:
 
Veteranewbie said:
Actually the land area equivalent to part of modern North Korea has been a Chinese province during the Han dynasty

Basically the whole damn Far East is under the influence of Chinese culture, so I can accept Korea is a distinctive cultured civilization by itself
But did it exist as a great and successful civilization that has significant impact on human history? I doubt it
Yes, true. there was some presence of Chinses Han dynasty in northern part of Korea. But at that time, there was no political state in Korea.. Only some tribal state or federation of them.. No Kingdom in historical sense.
After three Korean kingdom were established, there was no Chinese presence since then.. Whole Korean peninsular and much of the Manchurian territory was ruled by Kokuryo or Balhae (Korean dynasty) since then.
Of course, old Chinese Sui dynasty invaded and tried to conqure the Kokoryo with army of million soldiers but defeated miserabley by Kokuryo. Sui dynasty tried again and again with another million armies but repeatedly failed..
After that three war, the Sui dynasty fell down and replaced by Tang dynasty. It was due to Sui dynasty wasted too much military power and treasury to do three big war with Kokuryo.
At least, Korea did great impact on history of China..
I ask you, what did the Japanese significant impact on human history? No much before 18C in your "western-centric" view of "human" history. East-Asian history is human history, too.
 
Veteranewbie said:
...significant impact on human history...
hehe...yeah...what civ has? tell me 1 civ, that had a significant impact on the whole human history, for all humans. i'm excited about the answer....
 
The winter killed the overconfident sui armies (classic napoleon hitler downfall), and the Goguryeo Kingdom (you call it Kokuryo?) extended all the way up to Harbin.

The only people not worthy of being is cIV is the strictest sense are what Daniel Quinn would call the "Leavers", kalahari bushmen such.
 
Koelle said:
Korea plays no roles in modern history. It'S someone else (the Chinese, the Americans, etc ...) who wrote Korean modern history. Korea has always been mentioned as battefield for big boys (China, USSR vs. Japan, USA)

Even though people may seem the country as a mere puppet of the big boys, it is no doubt an aspect of modern history that should be displayed. If this is considered an official arguement as to why Korea should not be in, then we must pitch out the U.N. as a significant part of the game. As no big powers actually participate in the U.N. but the U.N. did give the U.S. an excuse to go into the middle east again. Kinda like a puppet...

The unhumanlly tactics against civilians just show how uncivilized they are. Its disgrace for them to join America to fight against their fellow asians. Btw, how come a country (who cant even fight on its own for its own fate) that took a small part in an important war is more important than countries that played the main roles in it

Bold by me. Nowhere in existance is a rulebook on how to have war. No doubt there may be aspects to their culture that allow them a strong advantage while on their land. Italisized by me. What are you talking about?
 
King Flevance said:
Italisized by me. What are you talking about?
King Flevance said:
The tactics involved in the Vietnam War alone show their military prowess was way more advanced than the tactics used by westerners.

I'm talking about your quote. What makes you think that those tactics (they were nothing rather than killing civilians brutally) are more advanced and make Korea deserve to be in
 
Koelle said:
I'm talking about your quote. What makes you think that those tactics (they were nothing rather than killing civilians brutally) are more advanced and make Korea deserve to be in
How about this?
This is offical historical evaluation document by US DOD about role of Korean military contribution in Vietnam war..
Quite positive and many impressive praise on the Korean solders and their professionalism..
==============================
Allied Participation in Vietnam

DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
WASHINGTON, D.C. 1985
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/Vietnam/allied/index.htm#contents

CHAPTER VI
The Republic of Korea
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/Vietnam/allied/ch06.htm

---------------------------------------
Some excerpt and summary... ( excerpted by me)
--------------------------------------

Every time the Koreans performed a mission they did it well. A study of
the tactical area of responsibility assigned them shows clearly that they
were stretched to the limit geographically, with the job of keeping the
roads open from above Phu Cat north of Qui Nhon all the way to Phan Rang
down in Ninh Thuan, three provinces below Binh Dinh. They had several
hundred road miles of responsibility-and they kept the roads open.
....
The enemy feared the Koreans both for their tactical innovations and for
the soldiers' tenacity. It is of more than passing interest to note that
there never was an American unit in Vietnam which was able to "smell out"
small arms like the Koreans. The Koreans might not suffer many casualties,
might not get too many of the enemy on an operation, but when they brought
in seventy-five or a hundred weapons, the Americans wondered where in the
world they got them. They appeared to have a natural nose for picking up
enemy weapons that were, as far as the enemy thought, securely cached
away. Considered opinion was that it was good the Koreans were
"friendlies."
.....
General Peers, who succeeded General Rosson, stated that it took some
learning and understanding but that he found the Koreans highly efficient
and a distinct pleasure to work with. He also stated that every effort was
made to support Korean operations by providing additional artillery,
helicopters, APC's, and tanks and that this practice proved of immense
value in developing co-operation between the Koreans and adjacent US
units.
.....
General Creighton Abrams has indicated that from a purely professional
point of view the Koreans probably outperformed all of our allied forces
in South Vietnam. In response to a question from Vice President Spiro T.
Agnew regarding the performance of the Koreans in comparison with the
Vietnamese, General Abrams made this statement:
.....
"There were some things in which the Koreans, based purely on their
professionalism, probably exceeded any of our allied forces in South
Vietnam. An example of this would be when they decided to surround and
attack a hill . . . In many other fields, however, particularly in working
close to the population, the Vietnamese show much more sensitivity and
flexibility than the Koreans. In short, the kind of war that we have here
can be compared to an orchestra. It is sometimes appropriate to emphasize
the drums or the trumpets or the bassoon, or even the flute. [The]
Vietnamese, to a degree, realize this and do it. The Koreans, on the other
hand, play one instrument- the bass drum."
....
In summary, the factors contributing to the success of Korean forces were the following:
discipline, aggressiveness, training, patience, and physical fitness of the Korean soldiers;
outstanding leadership; adherence to the same tactical doctrine taught at US service schools
and written in US manuals; thorough planning; careful initial reconnaissance;
time taken to develop tactical situations; sealing and blocking of selected areas
prior to entrance; use of interpreters at company level
(interpreters were the product of division school training).
.........
In summary, it appears that Korean operations in Vietnam were highly
professional, well planned, and thoroughly executed; limited in size and
scope, especially in view of assets made available; generally unilateral
and within the Korean tactical area of responsibility; subject to domestic
political considerations; and highly successful in terms of kill ratio.
-----------
 
Hmm, "soldiers' tenacity", nice word

Btw, you forgot to post articles like this. This shows how advanced your tactics were and what made the "highly successful kill ratio"

SOUTH KOREA: Exposed South Korean Soldiers Massacred Vietnamese during Vietnam War
ASIAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION - URGENT APPEAL PROGRAMME

AHRC UA Index: 000224 24 February 2000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
UA 07/00: WAR CRIMES - civilians massacred

SOUTH KOREA: Exposed South Korean Soldiers Massacred Vietnamese during Vietnam War
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last year, the Associated Press reports exposed that U.S soldiers massacred Korean civilians during the Korean War and the most documented of these killing happen in Nogunri. It is well known that Korean soldiers participated in Vietnam war from 1963 to 1973. Recently, a Korean newspaper exposed that Korean soldiers had massacred innocent vietnamese civilians. The Asian Human Rights Commission supports the initiative of the Peace Committee of Korean House for International Solidarity (KHIS] in this appeal to seek justice for victims of war crimes.

The painful history of Nogunri's victims has been ignored for fifty years, but at last the facts have come to light. Recently it has come to our attention that during the Vietnam War Korean soldiers also conducted massacres of innocent civilians. Testimony of such slaughter of Vietnamese
civilians by Korean soldiers in Vietnam war was given in an article of the Korean weekly magazine Hankyoreh 21, titled "Remember Vietnam's Soul".

Currently, discussion of these massacres has become a prominent issue in the Vietnamese media.

Korean soldiers participated in the Vietnam war from 1963 to 1973. They killed approximately 41,400 of the enemy. However, an unknown number of ordinary Vietnamese people tragically lost their lives as well. The Ministry of Culture and Communication of Vietnam has publicly estimated that the number of innocent victims killed in the provinces like QUANG NGAI, QUANG NAM, and BINH DINH was approximately 5,000 people. It was reported that most Vietnamese people have not forgotten the shock of the
massacres yet and the mental anguish of the survivors have had serious and had lasting effects.

The Korean citizens participated in various campaigns on massacres in Vietnam; writing cards to apology through the coordination of KHIS and collecting contributions with Hankyoreh 21 to build schools and hospitals in Vietnam in districts that suffered the most damage. Through these
activities, they have asked Vietnamese pardon of past crimes committed by Korean soldiers.

The Korean public opinion on this issue is shown below:

1. The real facts of the massacre should be publicly revealed 66.3%
2. There is a need to dispatch a fact-finding mission 66.9%
3. The Korean government should make a public apology and provide compensation to Vietnamese victims 77.9%

*source: Hankyoreh survey

Nonetheless,the Korean government has avoided addressing this matter at all. "Nogunri massacre" during the Korean War and "Vietnamese Civilians Massacre" during the Vietnam War are representative cases of the twentieth century in which Korea was at one time a victim, and at another, an oppressor.

RECOMMENDED ACTION:
We are requesting yourself and your organization's support in solidarity to seek justice for victims of massacres in Vietnam. The statement below supports efforts to persuade the Korean government to:

* establish a fact-finding mission
* issue a public apology to the Vietnamese victims of the massacres.

Place your name and Organistion, endorsing the statement below and send it to KHIS. The statemen will be published in the Hankyoreh Newspaper with the list of supporters.

SEND TO:

Korean House for International Solidarity (KHIS)
Fax: 822-3673-5627
E-mail address: <khis21@nownuri.net>
<khis21@hotmail.com>


---------------------------- STATEMENT ------------------------------

To : President Kim Dae jung

We ask that you make an inquiry to establish the facts concerning the "Vietnamese Civilian Massacre" by Korean soldiers and make a public apology for these incidents to the Vietnamese people.

We have heard that an estimated 5,000 Vietnamese civilians were massacred by Korean soldiers in the provinces of QUANG NGAI, QUANG NAM, and BINH DINH during the course of the Vietnam war. Many innocent people including
women, children and the elderly were killed without regard, and the massacres have left deep scars on the memories of the survivors. For this reason we request an official apology from those responsible in the military for ordering the operations and compensation to the innocent victims of the massacres. It is certain that we will not be able to enter
the new millenium with a clear conscience if we don't make an effort to console the grief of the Vietnamese. We must do our best to uncover the truth and prevent tragedies like these fromhappening in the future. Once more, we stress that the true peace will only be accomplished by having the
upright courage to uncover the facts of the case. Even during the passing from one millenium to the next, the truth of these tragic massacres cannot be suppressed.

We urge the Korean government to:

1. Establish the facts of the case. Soldiers who took part in the the war have suggested that first of all, the real facts of the massacre should be revealed. We have agree with this. The Korean government should establish a joint inquiry commission with the Vietnam government.

2. If the recent reports prove to be well-founded, the Korean government should apologize publicly to the Vietnam government and the people by accepting responsibility for the occurrence of the massacres.

3. The Korean government should give recompensation and to the survivors of the massacres.

4. The Korean government should compensate the Korean soldiers who were forced to commit these inhumane acts and have since been suffering from the guilty consciences until now.

5. Please, provide financial support for inquiry into the real events of the massacre.

Your name:
Organization:



Posted on 2000-02-24



http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2000/366



or this:

http://www.vietquoc.com/jan15-00.htm

The massacre reported in the Hankyere might be the same incident that many Vietnamese heard in 1966. The rumor ran that in an operation, the Korean troops encountered strong fire from the communist unit in a village. The Korean unit encircled the village, sealed off all possible escape routes. They used megaphones to warn civilians to get out of their village in a given time or get killed when the Koreans came in.

After the deadline, the Koreans launched a fierce attack and seized the objective in a short time. In their search throughout the village, the Koreans shot to kill every single moving creature they met. According to the rumor, more than 300 peasants - old and young women and men, children - were massacred, plus several scores of enemy troops that mingled with the villagers

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/patrick.guenin/cantho/vnnews/korea.htm

South Korea's dark Vietnam war legacy lingers
HANOI - In central Vietnam's Binh Dinh province stands a large gravestone with 1,004 names etched in the granite -- victims, local officials say, of a killing spree by South Korean troops during the Vietnam War. The locals say 1,000 people, mainly civilians, died in the six-week rampage in early 1966 -- including 380 in one day.

Now a Korean journalist who has spent several months documenting harrowing accounts of survivors from the alleged killings in Binh Dinh says it's time Seoul apologised for the brutality of its troops and paid compensation to victims. Ku Su-Jeong, who works part-time for South Korea's Hankyoreh21 magazine, plans to give a speech on her findings next month at a human rights conference on Korea's Cheju island, just before the 25th anniversary of the end of the war in April. Ku stumbled upon the gravestone while doing research on Seoul's involvement in the war, and began interviewing victims whose stories invoked memories of an infamous massacre of Vietnamese by U.S. troops at My Lai village two years later. Ku hopes her paper will draw attention to the issue, although an article she wrote for her magazine last May drew only a muted response from Korean veterans who insisted it was unclear if civilians were killed in Binh Dinh.

``South Koreans must know about these massacres. They cast shame on us and we have a duty to apologise,'' Ku said. During the Vietnam War, Seoul wholeheartedly supported U.S.-backed South Vietnam, afraid that Washington might withdraw American troops stationed in South Korea. About 300,000 Korean troops fought in the war, and they had a fearsome reputation among ordinary Vietnamese.


Women, Children and elderly killed

Three local officials, including one who said he survived the alleged killings, spoke at length in telephone interviews with Reuters about the events in Binh Dinh. The officials, who declined to be identified, said that in early 1966, Korean troops entered the then Binh An commune, a collection of villages within Tay Son district which they believed was a Viet Cong stronghold. The Koreans were intent on flushing out opposing forces but civilians bore the brunt of their actions, the officials said.

An official at Tay Son's Communist Party history unit said the attacks began in early 1966 and culminated in a massacre of 380 people on February 26, 1966, at a place called Go Dai.
``They (the Korean troops) herded people up onto the hill, shot them and threw grenades,'' he said. ``In some cases they tied old men up... until they died. They tore children apart and threw their (limbs) onto trees,'' he said, adding that some Viet Cong were also killed. The Korean troops threw some bodies into an existing 150-200 metre (500-650 ft) long trench, the official said. Survivors later buried most of the rest of the dead. The names of those who died at Go Dai, along with other known victims of the six-week killing period, were carved on the gravestone, the official said. The number totalled 1,004.

``There has been a lot of propaganda about this in the area, but because no correspondents witnessed it, I think that is why no one outside knows about it,'' he said. One local official who said he survived the attacks reported that the main victims were women, children and the elderly. ``It was all part of a Korean campaign called 'burn all, destroy all and kill all'. They aimed to clear the whole area, which is why they killed old people and children. They also killed cattle, burned houses and paddy (rice),'' he said. A People's Committee official in Tay Son district also confirmed the details, saying 1,200 people were killed. A government official in Hanoi said central authorities had later investigated what happened at Binh Dinh and compiled detailed reports, which showed more than 1,000 people were killed during the period, including around 380 at Go Dai.


Let bygones be bygones, says Vietnam

However, when asked for comment and to confirm the alleged killings, Vietnam's Foreign Ministry said it did not want to dwell on the matter. Reuters could not visit Binh Dinh to interview survivors. Foreign journalists need approval to report outside Hanoi, and the Foreign Ministry said in December Binh Dinh officials were too busy with the aftermath of recent floods to receive visitors.

``South Korean troops committed crimes against Vietnamese people. With humanitarian and peaceful neighbourly traditions, it is Vietnam's policy to close the past...,'' the Foreign Ministry said in a statement in response to questions. South Korea's embassy in Hanoi has declined to comment on the general issue of Korean actions during the Vietnam War. Asked if Reuters could view official reports on the killings kept at the War Crimes Department within the Ministry of Labour, War Invalids and Social Affairs, the Foreign Ministry said officials there were also too busy.

The accounts of the killings by South Korean troops in Binh Dinh come not long after Seoul launched a probe into an alleged massacre at a village on its own soil by U.S. soldiers in the early days of the 1950-53 Korean War. Villagers and U.S. veterans were quoted as saying hundreds of innocent people were killed by the U.S. military at No Gun Ri. Professor Chun Kyung-soo at Seoul National University, who has spent years researching the role of Korean troops in Vietnam, feels there is a double standard.

``This issue (of Korean actions in Vietnam) has long been very sensitive in Korea,'' Chun told Reuters. Publicity about alleged Korean massacres during the Vietnam War stands in sharp contrast to the events on March 16, 1968, when U.S. troops commanded by Army Lieutenant William Calley entered My Lai village and gunned down 500 civilians. That massacre reverberated around the world when it was exposed and became synonymous with the horror of the conflict.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/patrick.guenin/cantho/vnnews/korea.htm

Seoul expressed "regret" over wartime actions

During a visit to Hanoi in 1998, South Korean President Kim Dae-jung expressed regret over Korean actions in the Vietnam War, but he did not apologise. Vietnam responded by saying it sought no apology from any nation that fought on its soil. Long-time Vietnam watchers say Hanoi does not like to highlight specific horrors from decades of wars against the French and then the U.S.-backed South Vietnam.

Carl Thayer, an expert on Vietnam at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Hawaii, said the killing of civilians by Koreans had largely faded from view because the Vietnam War was mainly seen as an American war. ``Vietnamese propagandists always make a distinction between the American government and the American people,'' he said. ``In their view the Vietnam War was a war launched by a wicked government. Koreans, Thais and Australians were all lackeys. ``It is easier to point the propaganda finger at one enemy, several only clouds the issue,'' he said.

Hanoi also did not want historical baggage to weigh it down as it sought aid and investment from the region, Thayer added.




Sorry, i cant write anything more. I'm going to go vommit now
 
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