Leading Immigration Think Tank Study: "Some Races Are Just Dumb You Guys"

[Tahuti]

That's because you are racist.

There is a difference between Israeli nationals - which includes ethnic Arabs with Israeli citizenship - and Jews.

Still unacceptable, but not racist.

 

[Patroklos]

Freedom of speech FTW yet again. Perhaps you should apply for a job at the Heritage Foundation.

I have no intention of quashing your incoherent bigoted ravings

 

[useless]

Aelf, you were the one that injected racism into this thread with your veiled accusations against mystery posters, not me. The study doesn't say anything about races being superior to one another, it just says one may have a naturally higher IQ. Right or wrong, that isn't racism in and of itself at all and yet you leapt right to that conclusion.

"Injected racism into this thread"

What?

This thread WAS ALREADY ABOUT RACISM

Come on, don't be this disengenous Vr, you're supposed to be one of the saner conservatives on this site, but this thread has me doubting this now.

 

[galdre]

I think it is pretty pointless to talk about variances in IQ between any groups until everyone has the same opportunities involving education. To assume differences based on race while ignoring all other factors is simply racism. Not that I except anything else from a conservative 'think' tank

 

[Formaldehyde]

There is a difference between Israeli nationals - which includes ethnic Arabs with Israeli citizenship - and Jews.

Did you wander into the wrong thread? Or are you just trolling as usual?

Still unacceptable, but not racist.

There isn't anything "unacceptable" about pointing out obvious racism and bigotry except to those who don't wish to discuss them.

I have no intention of quashing your incoherent bigoted ravings

Ironically, that is exactly what you seem to be exhibiting yourself.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

"think tank".....lol. I've solved the vast majority of the worlds problems with a few friends whilst at the pub but we didn't call it a "think tank", we called it talking at the pub.

 

[galdre]

"think tank".....lol. I've solved the vast majority of the worlds problems with a few friends whilst at the pub but we didn't call it a "think tank", we called it talking at the pub.

drink tank?

 

[Tahuti]

Did you wander into the wrong thread?

I sincerely thought that this was the thing Patroklos was pointing to in my earlier quote.

There isn't anything "unacceptable" about pointing out obvious racism and bigotry except to those who don't wish to discuss them.

Indeed there isn't. However, signalling specific nationalities out, even for anti-racist purposes, is just as unacceptable. Basic rights shouldn't be negated based on nationality.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

drink tank?

And consider yourself welcome anytime. Friday night we tackle "should there be a number of non-democratic positions in parliament reserved for sporting legends?"

 

[Patroklos]

So after reading what DT posted this is a troll thread and nothing included in the OP is supported by the OP article.

As stated already noting that there are IQ differences is not racist, and it is not controversial to only let in skilled or otherwise deemed desirable persons. I personally don't think IQ is a particularly good measure however it is a none controversial measure overall. The fact that he explicitly states a racial general feature should not be applied but individual scores shoots out of the water every insinuation of racial motive.

This is one of the weakest attack threads in a very long time.

 

[Evie]

VRWC, you're one of the posters I usually have the most respect for though we often disagree, but here in this thread your position (that it's not racism to say certain groups are more or less intelligent) is...questionable at best. Disingenuous, perhaps. The link between "X racial group is less intelligent" and "racism" cannot just be dismissed like you're trying to do.

First, because this is precisely the sort of argument that was used to justify an undeniably racist institution in the form of slavery : that due to lower intelligence, blacks wouldn't know what to do without whites guiding them, etc, etc, etc. An argument that was used to justify slavery is going to be suspect of racism almost by definition, and require extremely strong evidence to reverse that suspicion. Here the evidence is lacking.

Second, because even with a few studies, associating a particular negative quality (eg, lower physical strength, lower intelligence, etc) to an entire group, even if there are some averages that justify it, result into prejudice, eg, people assuming that someone is less intelligent/strong/etc on the basis of their skin color. Encouraging that sort of attitude without very, very strong evidence that has been controled for every other possible variable, does in fact amount to racism, because in effect that's what you're fostering, and you're doing so on partial and questionable data.

Now proposing those ideas within scientific studies and discussions may in fact have a place, provided you have the evidence and all. But bringing those studies to the field of national politics without that evidence is a whole other ball game.

EDIT: Brainfarted the first paragraph, started it with one idea, finished it with another, and managed to say something I really didn't want to.

 

[Patroklos]

I think you need to read his comments again because he and the quoted guy in the OP are saying the exact opposite of what you are accusing them of.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

VRWC, you're one of the posters I usually have the most respect for though we often disagree, but here in this thread your position (The implication that certain groups based on racial considerations are inherently more or less intelligent) does, in fact, stink of racism, and is undeniably tied to racism.

First, because this is precisely the sort of argument that was used to justify an undeniably racist institution in the form of slavery : that due to lower intelligence, blacks wouldn't know what to do without whites guiding them.

Second, because even with a few studies, associating a particular defect (eg, lower physical strength, lower intelligence, etc) to an entire group, even if there are some averages that justify it, result into prejudice, eg, people assuming that someone is less intelligent/strong/etc on the basis of their skin color. Encouraging that sort of attitude without very, very strong evidence that has been controled for every other possible variable, does in fact amount to racism, because in effect that's what you're fostering, and you're doing so on partial and questionable data.

Dude, that's not VR's position.

Even if it were true, it's no reason to restrict immigration.

EDIT: Oh NOES, Aelf outed me already. I'm so busted Seriously, if you guys are going to say things like that, have the balls to say publicly who you think they are or just shut it.

 

[Evie]

Yeah, see my edit. I got distracted midway through that paragraph, started it talking about VR's position and finished it talking about the position described by the OP. Edit has been made to bring the second half more in line with what VR appears (to me) to be saying.

Mea culpa. Sorry VR!

 

[Muhammed]

If there was a more rigorous method of measuring intelligence, you'd be okay with that measure determining who can immigrate?

.. I just wrote 4 different responses to this, deleted them all. Its a very good question, will have to get back to you

-Peace

 

[Patroklos]

Yeah, see my edit. I started the paragraph talking about VR's position and finished it talking about the article's position. It has now been edited to be about VR's position the whole way.

Mea culpa.

You have still grossly misrepresented the OP article guys position as basically the opposite of what it actually is as well as added some science denial as well.

Are you disputing that there are real differences in racial groups? Are you stating that recognizing that fact is racist so we should just deny them?

 

[galdre]

Are you disputing that there are real differences in racial groups? Are you stating that recognizing that fact is racist so we should just deny them?

Asserting that there are differences, when factors that greatly effect scoring on an IQ test have not been addressed, is racist.

 

[Agent327]

Are you disputing that there are real differences in racial groups?

You mean other than skin pigmentation? (Seriously, slippery road here...)

 

[Patroklos]

Asserting that there are differences, when factors that greatly effect scoring on an IQ test have not been addressed, is racist.

The cause is irrelevant, immigration concerns the reality of scores in the here and now for those applying. IQ is a widely accepted measure of intelligence so there is no real way to claim the metric selected was for racist reasons.

I will note again that the racially corresponding difference in scores was merely noted, but individual scores were recommended as the metric to be used.

You mean other than skin pigmentation? (Seriously, slippery road here...)

Absolutely. From sickle cell to cystic fibrosis they are real and ignoring them is stupid.

The question isn't whether they exist, the question is whether the distictions we make based on them are justified by this differences. So if we are talking cystic fibrosis testing you can make a decision based on broad racial categories, who gets voting rights not so much.

 

[Borachio]

Are you disputing that there are real differences in racial groups? Are you stating that recognizing that fact is racist so we should just deny them?

How do you determine what racial group a particular individual belongs to?