LK148 - WM, farewell to Greece

[LKendter]

I just checked, and the sugar hill is 2 food. I agree the grassland is faster to do first, but at some point 2 food mined hill will be a very useful tile. We need production, and tile gives it.

I don't see the Italy spot. France is already on Sicily and near Venice. Not a lot of tiles left for Rome, and it is a high water city. At this point we have no clue is there is nearby seafood to make it worth the bother.

 

[ToddMarshall]

France has already claimed the spot I was talking about I think. It's hard to see from the map, but their boarders on the edge of the pcture makes it look like they claimed it during the last 10 turns.

 

[CKS]

Settled Red Dot - flip chances are 0.03% or less with one MP. I met no one new and caved in to two demands, one for horseback riding from Babylon and one for 41 g from Russia.


Edit: I noticed that we need 50000 victory points to win. I'm not familiar with victory points at all. Is this going to be something we have to worry about? How do we gain/lose/avoid victory points?



Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Turn 0 (1250 BC): Switched Athens to fish, for extra commerce while still finishing the barracks.
IBT: Build barracks in Athens, start horse. Temple in Thermopylae, start barracks. Paris builds the Colossus.

Turn 1: Move to red dot, explore.
IBT: zzz

turn 2: Build red dot - Pharsalos - start temple.
IBT: Hammurabi demands horseback riding; I cave. Corinth starts barracks.

Turn 3: zzz
IBT: Sparta finishes barracks, starts horse. Delphi finishes temple, starts curragh.

Turn 4: zzz
turn 5:zzz
turn 6: zzz
IBT: lose curragh, build a new one.
Turn 9: zzz
IBT Russia demands 41 g, I give in.

 

[LKendter]

Edit: I noticed that we need 50000 victory points to win. I'm not familiar with victory points at all. Is this going to be something we have to worry about? How do we gain/lose/avoid victory points?

UGGG+++
No idea how that got set on by accident.
Does any one know how that works, or if there is a way we can edit it OUT of the save?


ROSTER:
LKendter (on deck)
Todd Marshall (indefinite skip)
Greebley
CKS (just played)
Kulko (up)

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

iirc you get points for kills and maybe captures. You gain more points by capturing the VP obelisk at the capitol. Only used it on some mods of here and that was a long time ago.

 

[Kulko]

Got it: Looks fine so far.

two questions:
Any reason to keep the two warriors in asia? Do they have a chance to meet other contacts there?
Same for the African explorer once he meets Shaka.

And Second whatdo you suggest I do when a level 2 (Persia, Egypt) or Level 3 (songhai,India or even farther of) neighbours comes around demanding things?

And when Philo comes around I aim for Monarchy and go into immediate anarchy correct?

 

[LKendter]

iirc you get points for kills and maybe captures. You gain more points by capturing the VP obelisk at the capitol. Only used it on some mods of here and that was a long time ago.

OK - we will get a ton of VP then. We need to figure out how to remove this from the game, or we are are forced to restart.

 

[LKendter]

Any reason to keep the two warriors in Asia? Do they have a chance to meet other contacts there?

Map knowledge - getting a complete map is tough, and the more we can map out the better.

And Second what do you suggest I do when a level 2 (Persia, Egypt) or Level 3 (Songhai, India or even farther of) neighbors comes around demanding things?

I generally cave - last I looked we have nothing but warriors.

And when Philo comes around I aim for Monarchy and go into immediate anarchy correct?

Sounds good

 

[LKendter]

Does anyone have Civ multitool installed and working. That is supposed to let us remove VP victory.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

IIRC VP is used in El Justo's AoE and it really did not have any impact, but it has been a few years ago.

 

[Kulko]

I generally cave - last I looked we have nothing but warriors.

Well before somebody from india or Songhai arrives in our citoies we willd efinitely have more than warriors. And They will be willing to talk peace on mostly even terms, and we can probably sign in Persia or egypt agaoinst them and have them fight each other.

The only problem with this is, you have to remember that you were at war with them, when they finally arrive. Apart from that they are basically free happyness.

 

[Greebley]

The bad thing about not caving when that single civ pulls in others into the war - possibly near you.

Additionally defenders are our UU so a random attack means a GA before we are ready for it. I would avoid war for all except Germany.

The only point for a few cats is that if a Spear lands on our sugar hill for example, you need to attack a defense 3 unit with an attack 2 and will likely lose the first fight or let the square be pillaged. With 2 cats you will likely do a single hp damage which means the spear will retreat to heal without pillaging.

Its not vital, but putting a town without barracks on building one or two can be worth it. The smaller towns likely won't complete barracks and a Horseman, but might finish a Catapult before the war starts.

Barrack towns do build 1-2 Hops for stack defense and the rest Horsemen.

 

[Kulko]

Philo is due nin 1, but nobody has bothered to research Poly so far, CoL is on the market although as a monopoly tech by China. lots of other people have MM.

Any suggestions what I should do? I could probably gain republic as a freebie, but that would mean two anarchy periods. I could also just get Poly as a freebie, but that soounds like such a waste when the AI will research that probably already.


PS France own 107 gp and lacks math and HBR. Does anybody nmind them getting math?

 

[CKS]

I'd feel uncomfortable waiting to learn philosophy until someone learns poly.

We could take republic and not switch, just use it for trading. I don't know if staying in despotism for an extra thirty turns is worth avoiding an extra revolt, though, especially as we expect to be still small when we revolt to monarchy. Both seem like bad options.

I'd rather get Lit than Poly. Lit gives us cheap libraries for culture and faster research.

I expect this does not help make the decision about what to do.

 

[LKendter]

We will be doing a lot of fighting. Republic is NOT worth it.

 

[Kulko]

Well I see the following possibilities:

A) Go for Republic, revolt now and revolt again after the first or second war.
The Good:
No Despotoic GA
2100 Beakers gained
The Bad:
We are not religious, so thats potentially 16 turn Anarchy
These 2100 Beakers would not be needed anyway.

My2c: Overall this doesn't sound like a very smart thing to do.

B) Go for republic and use as trade:
The Good:
2100 Beakers gained
The Bad:
These 2100 Beakers would not be needed anyway.

My2c: Sounds not like a good plan 2.

C) Choose Poly, and selfresearch Monarchy
The Good:
fastest way to Monarchy
The Bad:
Only 900 beakers
Even less when we consider, that some AI must be short before breaking through

My2c: Its an Option, but a painful one.

D) Choose Lit, wait for Poly and research Monarchy
The Good:
Faster research to Monarchy because we have Libs
The Bad:
Only 750 beakers
We don't have the shields to build Horses and Libs, so its probably wasted

My2c: I Dont like this one.

E) Choose Construction, wait for Poly and research Monarchy
The Good:
at least 1500 Beakers
We can immediately gobble up everything the AI has lying around in Techs, and might still have something to trade for Poly.
The Bad:
Another 30+ turns under despotic government, making a despotic GA more likely

My2c: Still looks like the best of the bunch to me


F)Delay and pray
The Good:
If it works we get Monarchy in a few turns.
The Bad:
If it does not work we lost the Philo freebie. Also we are not religious, so praying might not be our best bet.

My2c: High risk strategy

After writing it all down, I tend towards just choosing Construction and save money until someone finds Poly. But iw ould find another day to give the other people a chance to chime in.

 

[CKS]

I'm good with construction.

I disagree that we can't build libraries and horses, though. If we can shell out 60 shields for temples, we can shell out 40 for the far more useful libraries.

Do we have a way to fix the VP problem? I've seen no responses to Lee's multitool question.

 

[LKendter]

E is fine with me. I really don't want double anarchy to get republic. We are going monarchy for lots of wars.

 

[Greebley]

E seems best to me too. We also have several towns that will need aquaducts if I remember correctly, though I think the first war should be before building them.

 

[LKendter]

We also have several towns that will need aquaducts if I remember correctly, though I think the first war should be before building them.

I agree 100% war before aquaducts. We are to small at this point. We need to at least get one nearby civ taken over by us before we go into infrastructure mode.
The same is true for libraries. At this point it is barracks, troops, and maybe a worker or two.