LK154 - CCM - Bablyon

I can see an Enslaver but am not sure what unit can see it.

I have Monks, a Mullah and Enslavers. However none say they can see invisble in the Civopedia

I am assuming it is not the more ordinary units.

Civinator,
You may want to check all units that can see invisible say so if it is one of the 3 I listed.

Another potential Civopedia clarification I noticed. It would be nice if it explained some of the movements of the unusual units. For example, Mullah doesn't mention it treats all squares as 1 movement point and the artillery units don't mention all non-roaded squares are 2 movement points.

NP,
I went and got Medicine to make the previous deal a 3-fer a few turns later. (It is annoying to lose the Granaries, but puts us only Enlightenment behind the tech leaders).
 
Workers can see slavers, so that's another possibility if you've got some in forward positions to build garrisons.

Good news about Medicine--we can't hold back on grabbing every possible tech at this point, despite substantial inconveniences such as losing our castles and our granaries.
 
I can see an Enslaver but am not sure what unit can see it.

I have Monks, a Mullah and Enslavers. However none say they can see invisble in the Civopedia
Mullahs (including the other types of padre) and Lawyers can see invisible units and as NP said workers/slaves can see invisible units.

Question about Castles: When they go obsolete do we lose the 75% defensive bonus along with the ability to produce veterans and upgrade units?
If we get no benefits from owning a castle should we sell them for the gold?
Likewise with Granaries, if there is no benefit to having a granary should we sell it?
 
Question about Castles: When they go obsolete do we lose the 75% defensive bonus along with the ability to produce veterans and upgrade units?

A neat question. Since we so rarely absorb attacks on our own cities, I don't have any relevant experience. Probably only Civinator can answer.

Since granaries only have one function, we should certainly sell them once they've lost that function.
 
IBT: Lose an Arqu and Musketeer to attacking Longbow and Rider.

1702 AD: We could attack the next city this turn, but I notice it is the Capitol and I don't think we have enought Knights for it and all the Treb are still healing. More Knights moved up.

Our Worker stack spotted a Slaver so we kill it before it gets us.

IBT: We win the attacks on the Musketeer for a pleasant change to last IBT. First Cavalry built

We finally see the Americans are building East India.

1704 AD: Our attack on the Beijing goes terribly with 3 losses and 5 retreats before we get a win. It is size 16 and likely has a Castle. The 9th attack is a win and finally shows an injured defender. Two more losses against the 3 then 4 pointer; we are getting Cavalry just in time. We start doing a bit better and only lose 1 or 2 more Knights vs the 3 and less hp defenders.

We use a Monk though I pick 'no' once just because I find the booing humorous. I always liked that touch.

We pick up 2 new Workers with a Slaver and one was in the city.

We finally have enough gold to do the Naval Power + 61 gpt for Medicine deal with the Inca to make Naval Power a 3-fer. It really stretches us to the limit, but I don't think the deal will last long.

The AI only has Enlightenment above us and possibly Democracy, though noone has switched if so

I set our research to 50 for Enlightenment because we will definitely want the other tech sooner than 50.

Oh I forgot that Medicine killed all our Granaries. Hospital is now available. I want some kind of Cavalry force first, so the next player may want to do the work on Infrastructure - we are close to the tech front so we probably want the science buildings, and hospitals.

IBT: Inca declare on the mongols

1706 AD: Healing for many Knights. Some healthy move on the new Capitol of Nanking

IBT: Our Musketeer hold off the Enemy.

1708 AD:
We attack Nanking which goes much better than Beijing with one Knight lost.

Finally get a leader at long last. I have been holding Small Wonders in reserve, but have gotten no leaders to build them.
Two other North and South Knight stacks move on cities including our finally healed Artillery units
Also picked up a Slave killing an injured Rider.

Some more low quality deals (and one good one) can be done for old tech. I do them anyway because our Gold is still low. We are back to 98 gpt at the moment. We picked up enough cash to do some upgrade of defensive units which are only 30 gold each.

IBT: Lose a Musketeer. See China lose a defender to someone who is 'not us' (in the fog).

1710 AD: In the North our Artillery units have a hard time capturing Chengdu. We lose 3 Treb to 2 Fire Lancer

We also capture the Southmost Chinese city of Anyang using Knights that were in the south.

We gained two Monks this turn.

We build our next city, Umi (which means ocean is Japanese which it is not near)

Stopping here on an even turn number

Notes:
I decided to place the Great Palace in a Central location of what will one day be our lands (toward the bulge just before the choke). The city is nothing now, but we can get irrigation to it and it will eventually be strong with Iron and hills when the plains are railed. It was also near the front so less time before used increasing chance of another leader.



However, if no one else likes this idea, we could change it to the National Exchange (or Mil Acad which seems pointless). There are a number of Workers nearby from the ones I gained this turn plus a few that were around before. The 10 or so workers can get the town going and we aren't that far from Rails when the town can really start growing.

There are 5 cities left; one we can't see but it appears to be just south of their current Capitol

The first Cavalry moved next to a Chinese city so the next player gets to use them. Several are on their way near Hangchow.

We do not have many Musketmen on the front. Beijing has a Barracks from the Forbidden Palace and can upgrade Musketeers for 30 - I think this worth doing.

I have not had the funds for upgrading Knights at 60 gold. They go to attack 6 Hussars rather than cavalry.

Looks like we get cash back in 3 turns (Canada 139), 7 turns (US 230) and 11 turns (Israel 360) plus the deals I made (turn 12 and 15 with the US are the big ones at 308 and 280). I think we would like to start research by 20 turns since we should be caught up in tech and possibly able to forge ahead.

We also have a Lawyer now; we need to also watch for Enemy Lawyers which are like Enslavers but attack 6.

We still have lots of Monks.

 

Attachments

Some brutal battles there, but the Chinese are clearly on the way out now. :goodjob: I'm glad you reinforced the stack heading for Beijing before making that attack. Did you not feel that any of these tough attacks required garrison support, though?

It looks as though the worker we captured in Beijing in 1704 AD was China's turn-220 settler.

I think I'd change the rush in Macao to the Military Academy, which will improve our chances of getting further Leaders, and then use our next Leader (even if we have to hold onto him a while) to rush the Great Palace in a Chinese city of our choice when we've eliminated China.

Our stacks of units healing at one HP all over China really epitomize the difficulty of attacking without safe places to heal in CCM. By the time we get our next settler we may have enough cities, and few enough promising sites, that we can use settlers strictly tactically to avoid that problem.

The Nubians are the tech leaders now, with a known-world monopoly on Imperialism.
 
Well Done Greebly. :goodjob:
I got it.
I think I'd change the rush in Macao to the Military Academy, which will improve our chances of getting further Leaders, and then use our next Leader (even if we have to hold onto him a while) to rush the Great Palace in a Chinese city of our choice when we've eliminated China.
I will switch Macao to the Military Academy.

The Forbidden Palace in Beijing works as a barracks and has a feature to improve the chances of Leaders.

Do we know if the chance of getting a Leader reflects both the Forbidden Place and the Military Academy, or is that a question for Civinator?
 
Definitely a question for Civinator. ;) You'd have to play an incredible amount of CCM to know just by the results whether the Leader-chance improvements from different sources are cumulative.
 
ROSTER:

LKendter
Greebley
Jersey Joe (up) Already got it.
Elephantium (on deck)
Northern Pike
 
I had forgotten the garrisons. I don't know if it would have helped much or not - a lot of battles were really pathetic doing a single hp. What is their range and does it count the square you are attacking into or from? If into I think it was 3 away.
 
Do we know if the chance of getting a Leader reflects both the Forbidden Place and the Military Academy, or is that a question for Civinator?
Definitely a question for Civinator. ;) You'd have to play an incredible amount of CCM to know just by the results whether the Leader-chance improvements from different sources are cumulative.

As far as I know the settings of improving the chance of appearance of MGLs by the Great Palace (=Forbidden Palace) and the Military Academy don´t work cummulative, but there was no serious testing about that question. In the next version of CCM, only the Military Academy has this setting.

I can see an Enslaver but am not sure what unit can see it. I have Monks, a Mullah and Enslavers. However none say they can see invisble in the Civopedia. Civinator, You may want to check all units that can see invisible say so if it is one of the 3 I listed.

Another potential Civopedia clarification I noticed. It would be nice if it explained some of the movements of the unusual units. For example, Mullah doesn't mention it treats all squares as 1 movement point and the artillery units don't mention all non-roaded squares are 2 movement points.

The new format of the civilopedia of CCM version 2.00 will show all the features of landunits that you cannot see in the normal C3C Civilopedia (including the option of seeing invisible units, movement restrictions and -boni, additional hitpoints, blitzattack, upgrade paths and so on, mostly with links to those special features). Here are some screenshots from the CCM thread, showing the new format:

Spoiler :
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The landunits of era 1 and 2, that can see invisible units, were listed in the previous posts. All kind of holy men (missionaries, mullahs, yogis, priests, prophets, druids and so on) can see invisible units. They have a lot of supporters among the population who tell them all watchings they have noticed in their surroundings.

Workers have that function, too. They have a natural sense of the danger they are running in. This function was added after Rhodie wrote the CCM civilopedia, as otherwise too many workers did run into enslavers.

Also recon cars from WW2 or newer have this option.

Monks in CCM1.8 cannot detect invisible units - but may be it´s a good idea to give them that option in CCM version 2.00, too. :)

Question about Castles: When they go obsolete do we lose the 75% defensive bonus along with the ability to produce veterans and upgrade units?

Yes, you lose the 75% defensive bonus, too.
 
Actually it just occurred to me that if the forbidden palace is a place that reduces distance corruption then a spot too near won't be useful and we should put it way south or something.

I've never noticed that the Great Palace has anything like the effect of the Forbidden Palace in C3C. In fact, the Civilopedia entry doesn't even claim that it does. The only thing it clearly does is reduce corruption (and provide a barracks) in its own city, so putting it in a strong Chinese city that hasn't lost much population to the war will be as good a use as we can find for it.
 
I had forgotten the garrisons. I don't know if it would have helped much or not - a lot of battles were really pathetic doing a single hp. What is their range and does it count the square you are attacking into or from? If into I think it was 3 away.

The range is two, garrison-intervening tile-friendly unit. The target of the attack doesn't have to be within this range, only the friendly unit receiving support (so, attacking from, in your terms). Once culture bombs are available we can virtually always make our attacks on enemy cities with garrison support, and in my experience it reduces our rate of loss dramatically.
 
Ya, I had forgotten about their advantage. One of the reasons I wanted to play a practice game before 2.0; so I remember things like this.

It might change in 2.0 but at least I will know to check if they are still present.

They certainly are needed in the 4 vs 4 era with castles and large cities.
 
It seems that when you rush a Small Wonder you cannot change it to another Small Wonder. The choice I have in Macao is either build the Great Place or switch it to a hospital (highest shield none wonder). Hospital is not bad since we need 3 to build Battlefield Medicine.
Eventual Macao will grow into a good production city so building the Great Palace could be viable.

Any thoughts?
 
Hmm, an interesting discovery. I'd just switch to the hospital, which is a rational choice we might have made anyway. Macao is hardly going to be corrupt and just isn't a natural location for the Great Palace.

I suspect that Civinator doesn't want Small Wonder rushes used as pre-builds for unrushable Great Wonders, so they're set up to be unswappable. (I invented two words the spell check doesn't like there. :D)
 
As far as I know, this is a gamemechanism in C3C, that you cannot use rushed shields (if it is the value in shields for clearing a forest or the shields for using a MGL) for switching to build a great wonder.
 
Yes, it makes sense that that prohibition would exist in the base game too.
 
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