"mad swivel-eyed loons"

[Quackers]

Austerity, cutting down immigration, blaming poor folk, sabotaging Britain's position in the EU... I'm not sure what's not Tory about this government. Maybe it's the gay marriage thing you're complaining about?

Austerity = already going to happen under labour,
Immigration = once again, it was already being curbed under Labour remember the whole "points based system" they kept on banging on about,
Blaming poor folk = emotional nonsense.
Sabotaging Britain's position in the EU = wasn't it Blair it who sacrificed part of our rebate, thus adversely effecting our net contributions whilst the EU failed to implement the CAP reforms Blair wanted in the first place?

Oh and gay marriage yeah another thing which happened under this so-called "tory" government. New labour in disguise.

 

[Quackers]

Why not go with Dan Miller the competent Miliband brother?

I think Labour shot themselves in the foot with that one. Ed had a very poor start but to be fair to him he has improved over his tenue. He should be doing better though, an incumbent who is trying to sell a very difficult ticket, the austerity measures, is doing far better then he should.

If you go by their grades they achieved at college and university, Ed is the smarter of the two. David Miliband's father abused a system designed to aid disdvantaged talented students into going to Oxbridge to get David, whose grades were below par, into Oxford. Typical Marxist behaviour, nepostistic when it suits them crying out for meritocracy when it doesn't. You really have to plumb the depths of the gutter to get these rats.

 

[Arakhor]

UKIP will restore the people's faith in government and their policies will bring about a Golden Age for Britain.

Yeah, no. Stick to US politics.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

He did recognize the necessity to come back to the middle if the NDP were to maintain their advantage, though.

I really believe the NDP could have been the new centre-left party for Canadians to get behind because of Jack's integrity and honesty. Oh, well.

Ignatieff could've saved the Liberals. He had a honeymoon period with the media and had high credentials. The big tragedy in this, though, is/was that he sucked.

The only thing that can save this country now is for the Liberals to disband after losing the next election so that fresh-blood can emerge among the "moderates" (which is now becoming an alias for people who prefer reasonable ideas than radical craziness)... and perhaps stop blocking the motion to get rid of the ******** First Pass the Post system (which the Ford brothers are fighting to keep in Toronto when a motion came up to overthrow it).

 

[classical_hero]

I never realised that being pro marriage as a union between one woman and one man for the life of the relations to the exclusion of all others was such an extreme position. it has been the position of all societies in the past. I would say that "Gay marriage" is an extreme position since it is redefining a clear structure that has been around of so many thousands of years.

 

[Arakhor]

Shame about divorce, isn't it, CH?

 

[Camikaze]

I never realised that being pro marriage as a union between one woman and one man for the life of the relations to the exclusion of all others was such an extreme position. it has been the position of all societies in the past. I would say that "Gay marriage" is an extreme position since it is redefining a clear structure that has been around of so many thousands of years.

Shame about divorce, isn't it, CH?

Moderator Action: I'm not entirely sure that's actually the direction anyone wants this thread to go...

 

[bathsheba666]

The more UKIP grows, the better the UKIP will become.

Not the only quality they share with cancer.

 

[Mise]

UKIP will go away by the next election. They are a protest vote, nothing more. Lib Dems used to get 25-30% of the popular vote regularly in the local elections. They used to beat beat Labour, even when they were in power! But it doesn't translate into general election votes because they are just protest votes. I guarantee that UKIP will get no more than 7-8% at the general election. Those UKIP voters will go back to the Tories (and some to Labour and the Lib Dems) in due course.

If the Tories veer to the right to grab what they perceive as UKIP votes (but are in reality just protest votes), then their haemorrhaging of moderate support will pick up pace. They failed at the last election because, in truth, they were offering very little different to what Labour were offering. Next election, with Ed Miliband taking his party to the traditional left, the Tories are in a much stronger position if they can hold the centre ground. Sadly (for them), the polarisation of their party means that this is becoming impossible. Instead, Labour will have the centre, as well as recapturing some of the working class that they lost at the last election, and will come out ahead.

If the Tories stayed in the centre and stopped banging on about Europe they'd probably return a very thin majority in 2015.

 

[Azale]

Why not go with Dan Miller the competent Miliband brother?

If I had my choices, I would go with robo-Ralph Miliband

 

[Peck of Arabia]

I don't think anything could return a majority tory government, certainly not in 2015, and certainly not appealing to the middle again.

I mean, in 2010, after a thorough "De-toxify" they went against Gordon Brown at his least popular, right in the think of an economic collapse which (rightly or wrongly) a lot of people blamed on Labour, while Labour's campaign was riddled with incompetence (bigotgate, etc) and an almost universally hostile media coverage ( I believe only the Mirror was backing them)- and the Tories still lost!

Even if they were offering the same as Labour, they should have won on account of the fact they weren't Gordon Brown.

Following the same strategy of chasing the middle simply isn't going to work in 2015, now Labour are rebuilding and rebranding themselves, and the Tories are now also tainted with the poor economy, and the baggage that incumbent government carry with them to elections.

If I was in Tory Central Office, I'd definitely consider it- I mean, what have they got to lose? They won't win you over, sure, but did they win you over when they raced to the centre? They didn't win me over, I voted Lib Dem. (More fool me)

You're probably right that the UKIP vote will shrink in 2015, but it is awfully dismissive of you to wave off 23% of the voting population as mere protest voters who should be ignored.

 

[Silurian]

Moderator Action: I'm not entirely sure that's actually the direction anyone wants this thread to go...

This thread is for the discussion of the UK Conservative Party, its relationship with its members and its relationship with other parties such as UKIP.
Same-sex marriage should only be discussed in that context.
Abstract discussions about same-sex marriage should be discussed in another thread.

thanks
Silurian

From BBC

David Cameron's support for same-sex marriage has made winning the general election "virtually impossible", Conservative activists have said.

In a letter to the PM, more than 30 past and present local party chairmen warned his backing for a change of law had led to voters switching to UKIP.

But Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt said it was an "issue of conscience that is not really about party".

MPs will debate the Marriage Bill for England and Wales on Monday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22585093


From UK Polling report

Last night I grumbled about the problems with polls purporting to show what issues affect people’s voting intentions. YouGov have asked it in a way that gets round one of those problems, that of giving a single issue false prominence, by asking people to pick from a list of all sorts of issues. Same-sex marriage remains an issue that only a small minority (7%) pick out as one that will affect their vote, and by 58% to 42% those people say they would be more likely to vote for a party that supported gay marriage. More people, 28%, say that Europe is one of the three or four issues they think would affect their vote at the next election, with most of them saying they would be more likely to vote for a party that promised a referendum.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...G-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-170513.pdf

Same sex marriage is not seen as particularly important by most people in the UK. In the poll quoted above transport is viewed as equally important, also at 7%; whilst defence is viewed as particularly important by 5% of people and housing by 11% of people. (the poll asked "Which of the following issues will be important to you in deciding how you vote at the next election? Please tick up to three or four")

The Labour Party keeps talking about the government being out of touch. If the Conservatives are fighting amongst themselves about same sex marriage, this will gain more credence.

 

[aelf]

Austerity = already going to happen under labour,
Immigration = once again, it was already being curbed under Labour remember the whole "points based system" they kept on banging on about,
Blaming poor folk = emotional nonsense.
Sabotaging Britain's position in the EU = wasn't it Blair it who sacrificed part of our rebate, thus adversely effecting our net contributions whilst the EU failed to implement the CAP reforms Blair wanted in the first place?

Oh and gay marriage yeah another thing which happened under this so-called "tory" government. New labour in disguise.

Most of that seems to suggest that Labour has become Tory, not that Tory has become Labour. But when has logic ever stopped you?