Yes indeed! I just surfaced from an intensive session with the Mongols and caught up with MB's graph. Smackster and Tecknoice have brought us right back onto the ptw team's tracks. Great job both of you. 
MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [civ3] Roster A
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
smackster
SGOTM
I'm still battling Mongols, I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever finish that one. And for some time wondering if we'll ever finish this one 
Teknoice
Chieftain
don't give me too much credit guys, it was bound to happen we just needed more people to play. We have a good settler factory going now and all I was doing was using it 
smackster
SGOTM
Originally posted by AlanH
I'm glad it's not just me! Hard work, or what!? Every turn I have to check F1 and diplo - I'm running 30 to 60 minutes per turn..
I've gone well past that now, in these long games I reach a point where I turn the Governor on, automate workers, turn off the graphics and only do diplomacy occasionally, in an attempt to make the turns go a little quicker.
Even worse I keep reading spoilers of those that found it easy.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Pre-flight 1000 BC Diplo check Shamanism is out there but a bit steep.
Switch Kasugai from Temple to worker. We only have 7 workers, we need more.
Switch Azuchi from settler to footman. At pop 3 it will take too long to recover pop.
Switch Kita-ku from warrior to worker for same reason.
IBT Tokugawa founds a city where our settler was probably headed.
1. 975 BC Tokugawa has Map Making and will sell it to us for our entire bank account and our economy for the next 20 turns. No thanks. Fakeda and Kuroda will give us the same deal for it: our WM and 184G. Lets see what we can do.
Execute the Kuroda deal.
Sell MM to Mori for their WM and 98G.
Chosogabe give WM & 5G for our WM.
Tokugawa give WM & 47G for our WM
IBT Azuchi: Footman=> Settler
Handa: Barracks=> Warrior
Yokkachi: Barracks=> Temple
Suzuka: Barracks=> Warrior
2. 950 BC Tokugawa and Kuroda want an arm and a leg for Shamanism. Takeda will give it to us for WM & 90G. I go for that. Start min science on math.
IBT Nagoya: Settler=settler
3. 925 BC Make 9G trading our WM around. Not much else.
IBT I think Tokugawa is at war with someone to our east. They g=have a lot of l=military units heading that way.
Baekjen complete Colossus.
4. 900 BC No a lot.
IBT Ogaki: Footman=> Warrior
Handa: Warrior=> Warrior
Suzuka: Warrior=> Warrior
5. 875 BC Start gathering up our veteran warriors to prepare for Operation Tokugawa. I will stage the warriors in two locations for a north and south task force.
IBT A Tokugawa horseman rides up next to Kasugai. We may be a war sooner than we thought.
Ise: Barracks=> Warrior
6. 850 BC Tokugawa now has Math.
And will sell it for WM & 148G. And thats the deal we can get from Chosogabe. Takeda, Kuroda and Mori will sell it for WM & 149G. Since Chosogabe is broke we give them the deal. We start a gambit on Currency.
Bump lux to 10% for Nagoya for one turn.
IBT Azuchi: Settler=>Footman
Nagoya: Settler=> Settler
7. 825 BC Lux back to 0%. Found Ichinomiya in the southern river valley. This breaks up Alans dot map, but it is on the river, takes advantage of two sheep, a horse and will have seven river tiles upon expansion. Start worker.
Now Confucianism is out there. Of course everyone has it. The best deal is WM & 118G from Tokugawa and Chosogabe. I think Ill hold off on that one for a bit.
IBT Ogaki: Warrior=> Warrior
Handa: Warrior=> Warrior
Suzuka: Warrior=> Warrior
Kita-ku: Worker=> Barracks
8. 800 BC I bite and establish an embassy with Tokugawa for 33G. Theyre running 80% science. Have horses and a dye hooked up. Pop 6 with a clown. Grow in 1, horse due in 1. Garrison of three spears. The only improvement is the Oracle. Theyre not at war yet.
9. 775 BC -
IBT Ise: Warrior=> Warrior
Kasugai: Worker=> Barracks
Han builds the Pyramids. Mori builds the Lighthouse. Korea builds the Library.
10. 750 BC Bump lux to 10% for 1 turn.
Score: 302
The settler to the northwest of Nagoya is on location (Alans yellow dot), as is the settler directly south of Suzuka (purple dot). The settler SE of Ichinomiya should go on the hill one tile SE. That will grab some rocks, an olive, and 7 river tiles.
There are two warrior forces being built up, SW and NW. However, there are a bunch of Tokugawa units in our lands that will need to be taken care of when we go to war.
<SAVE>
Switch Kasugai from Temple to worker. We only have 7 workers, we need more.
Switch Azuchi from settler to footman. At pop 3 it will take too long to recover pop.
Switch Kita-ku from warrior to worker for same reason.
IBT Tokugawa founds a city where our settler was probably headed.
1. 975 BC Tokugawa has Map Making and will sell it to us for our entire bank account and our economy for the next 20 turns. No thanks. Fakeda and Kuroda will give us the same deal for it: our WM and 184G. Lets see what we can do.
Execute the Kuroda deal.
Sell MM to Mori for their WM and 98G.
Chosogabe give WM & 5G for our WM.
Tokugawa give WM & 47G for our WM
IBT Azuchi: Footman=> Settler
Handa: Barracks=> Warrior
Yokkachi: Barracks=> Temple
Suzuka: Barracks=> Warrior
2. 950 BC Tokugawa and Kuroda want an arm and a leg for Shamanism. Takeda will give it to us for WM & 90G. I go for that. Start min science on math.
IBT Nagoya: Settler=settler
3. 925 BC Make 9G trading our WM around. Not much else.
IBT I think Tokugawa is at war with someone to our east. They g=have a lot of l=military units heading that way.
Baekjen complete Colossus.
4. 900 BC No a lot.
IBT Ogaki: Footman=> Warrior
Handa: Warrior=> Warrior
Suzuka: Warrior=> Warrior
5. 875 BC Start gathering up our veteran warriors to prepare for Operation Tokugawa. I will stage the warriors in two locations for a north and south task force.
IBT A Tokugawa horseman rides up next to Kasugai. We may be a war sooner than we thought.
Ise: Barracks=> Warrior
6. 850 BC Tokugawa now has Math.
And will sell it for WM & 148G. And thats the deal we can get from Chosogabe. Takeda, Kuroda and Mori will sell it for WM & 149G. Since Chosogabe is broke we give them the deal. We start a gambit on Currency. Bump lux to 10% for Nagoya for one turn.
IBT Azuchi: Settler=>Footman
Nagoya: Settler=> Settler
7. 825 BC Lux back to 0%. Found Ichinomiya in the southern river valley. This breaks up Alans dot map, but it is on the river, takes advantage of two sheep, a horse and will have seven river tiles upon expansion. Start worker.
Now Confucianism is out there. Of course everyone has it. The best deal is WM & 118G from Tokugawa and Chosogabe. I think Ill hold off on that one for a bit.
IBT Ogaki: Warrior=> Warrior
Handa: Warrior=> Warrior
Suzuka: Warrior=> Warrior
Kita-ku: Worker=> Barracks
8. 800 BC I bite and establish an embassy with Tokugawa for 33G. Theyre running 80% science. Have horses and a dye hooked up. Pop 6 with a clown. Grow in 1, horse due in 1. Garrison of three spears. The only improvement is the Oracle. Theyre not at war yet.
9. 775 BC -
IBT Ise: Warrior=> Warrior
Kasugai: Worker=> Barracks
Han builds the Pyramids. Mori builds the Lighthouse. Korea builds the Library.
10. 750 BC Bump lux to 10% for 1 turn.
Score: 302
The settler to the northwest of Nagoya is on location (Alans yellow dot), as is the settler directly south of Suzuka (purple dot). The settler SE of Ichinomiya should go on the hill one tile SE. That will grab some rocks, an olive, and 7 river tiles.
There are two warrior forces being built up, SW and NW. However, there are a bunch of Tokugawa units in our lands that will need to be taken care of when we go to war.
<SAVE>
I've got it.
BTW, when I say "Got it" I mean I've downloaded the save and opened it and looked around a bit. That's to avoid any possible delay when I come to play, hopefully later today, and in time for Smackster to play today as well, if he wants.
Looks good. We have 22 warriors, and a healthy cash flow. Good work on getting the worker count up as well. And hey, I just looked at MB's graph. We've gone into the lead!
.
Let's hope Tokugawa's horses give us time to get our Kensai Oda together. The AI only seems to get warlike when they run out of room for new cities, so I'm hoping we have some more time. In this terrain I think the horses will be at a distinct disadvantage and should be easy meat, though a little tough to chew
.
Our culture is not strong yet, but now we are starting to build further out and further apart we'll maybe build a few cheap temples and that will change. Not that we need it much, apart from for flip prevention.
I'm a bit surprised we didn't get the full continent map during the Mapmaking turn. I guess we want to ship over to the new world asap now we are about to settle on the south coast. We can see it already, and there may be some good trading opportunities if we can get there fast.
Any thoughts on Forbidden Palace strategy yet? Anyone?
For spectators and anyone who can't load it up, here's the F3 summary:
BTW, when I say "Got it" I mean I've downloaded the save and opened it and looked around a bit. That's to avoid any possible delay when I come to play, hopefully later today, and in time for Smackster to play today as well, if he wants.
Looks good. We have 22 warriors, and a healthy cash flow. Good work on getting the worker count up as well. And hey, I just looked at MB's graph. We've gone into the lead!
.Let's hope Tokugawa's horses give us time to get our Kensai Oda together. The AI only seems to get warlike when they run out of room for new cities, so I'm hoping we have some more time. In this terrain I think the horses will be at a distinct disadvantage and should be easy meat, though a little tough to chew
.Our culture is not strong yet, but now we are starting to build further out and further apart we'll maybe build a few cheap temples and that will change. Not that we need it much, apart from for flip prevention.
I'm a bit surprised we didn't get the full continent map during the Mapmaking turn. I guess we want to ship over to the new world asap now we are about to settle on the south coast. We can see it already, and there may be some good trading opportunities if we can get there fast.
Any thoughts on Forbidden Palace strategy yet? Anyone?
For spectators and anyone who can't load it up, here's the F3 summary:
That Map Making round was bugging me. Our map is 60 gold less valuable than anyone else's because we don't have Takeda's piece. So before I played the next ten turns, I loaded up the 1000 BC save to see what the problem was, hoping to learn something and to share it with the team. And I did, and I am.
Sir Bugsy's sequence gave us Map Making and a world map for 34 gold, but our map is undervalued by about 60 gold. Here's an alternative trading sequence, using an approach I evolved during Moonsinger's trade training exercise:
First we can build up our world map as far as possible by buying relatively cheap territory maps from the guys with Map Making:
Sell WM to Takeda for 65 + TM
Sell WM to Tokugawa for 24 + TM
Kuroda has no cash, so buy his map and Map Making:
Buy MM + TM from Kuroda for WM + 204.
Now we can sell our enhanced map to build it further and raise more cash:
Sell WM to Chosabe for 5 + WM
Sell WM to Mori for 99 + WM
Sell WM to Tokugawa for 45 + WM
Sell WM to Kuroda for 10 + WM
At this point we have Map Making and the same map as Sir Bugsy, except we are 44 up instead of 34 down.
Takeda still wants big money for his WM, and we know no one else knows it because we have swapped with them. So buy and resell it, as it will get traded anyway, leaving us behind:
Buy WM from Takeda for 112 + WM
Sell WM to Kuroda for 37
Sell WM to Mori for 11
Sell WM to Tokugawa for 28
Net result is we have a full world map plus Map Making at a cost of 12 gold. It's more complicated and time consuming, but key trading events like this only happen a few times in the game, and are worth agonising over.
The key lessons from this exercise are (1) maximise the value of your own map before you buy others and (2) make sure you get everyone's world map during this critical turn, as you will have to buy it sometime, but you will never be able to resell it later.
@Sir Bugsy: I hope this is helpful. I'm not criticising, and I might well have done the same deals as you, but 20:20 hindsight is a wonderful luxury
@Teknoice: I am told it's best to zip the save file if you can before uploading, as it then has a check sum that protects it against corruption end to end. If the file suffers a subtle corruption during the transfers we might not notice it for a while, by which time it's too late to go back. Corruption seems unlikely to me, given that we are using reliable TCP/IP protocols and modern servers, but I'm just going on advice I've seen from more experienced players than me.
Now I'll get on with my ten ...
Sir Bugsy's sequence gave us Map Making and a world map for 34 gold, but our map is undervalued by about 60 gold. Here's an alternative trading sequence, using an approach I evolved during Moonsinger's trade training exercise:
First we can build up our world map as far as possible by buying relatively cheap territory maps from the guys with Map Making:
Sell WM to Takeda for 65 + TM
Sell WM to Tokugawa for 24 + TM
Kuroda has no cash, so buy his map and Map Making:
Buy MM + TM from Kuroda for WM + 204.
Now we can sell our enhanced map to build it further and raise more cash:
Sell WM to Chosabe for 5 + WM
Sell WM to Mori for 99 + WM
Sell WM to Tokugawa for 45 + WM
Sell WM to Kuroda for 10 + WM
At this point we have Map Making and the same map as Sir Bugsy, except we are 44 up instead of 34 down.
Takeda still wants big money for his WM, and we know no one else knows it because we have swapped with them. So buy and resell it, as it will get traded anyway, leaving us behind:
Buy WM from Takeda for 112 + WM
Sell WM to Kuroda for 37
Sell WM to Mori for 11
Sell WM to Tokugawa for 28
Net result is we have a full world map plus Map Making at a cost of 12 gold. It's more complicated and time consuming, but key trading events like this only happen a few times in the game, and are worth agonising over.
The key lessons from this exercise are (1) maximise the value of your own map before you buy others and (2) make sure you get everyone's world map during this critical turn, as you will have to buy it sometime, but you will never be able to resell it later.
@Sir Bugsy: I hope this is helpful. I'm not criticising, and I might well have done the same deals as you, but 20:20 hindsight is a wonderful luxury
@Teknoice: I am told it's best to zip the save file if you can before uploading, as it then has a check sum that protects it against corruption end to end. If the file suffers a subtle corruption during the transfers we might not notice it for a while, by which time it's too late to go back. Corruption seems unlikely to me, given that we are using reliable TCP/IP protocols and modern servers, but I'm just going on advice I've seen from more experienced players than me.
Now I'll get on with my ten ...
smackster
SGOTM
Alan,
That is a great look at how to maximise trade value from world maps.
The one thing I would have done differently on Sir Bugsy's turn is that I would not have bought Mathematics. Reason one is that we need to save the cash for the Oda upgrade, but also I just don't like to buy techs for cash at the early stages unless we have a strategic reason to do it. We don't really need that yet, and it would get cheaper as other techs are discovered. Also we shouldn't worry about being behind in techs at this stage.
Just my 2 cents, right or wrong.
BTW I should be able to play my turn tonight, so Genkis Khan please get ready as you will be up tomorrow.
Smackster
That is a great look at how to maximise trade value from world maps.
The one thing I would have done differently on Sir Bugsy's turn is that I would not have bought Mathematics. Reason one is that we need to save the cash for the Oda upgrade, but also I just don't like to buy techs for cash at the early stages unless we have a strategic reason to do it. We don't really need that yet, and it would get cheaper as other techs are discovered. Also we shouldn't worry about being behind in techs at this stage.
Just my 2 cents, right or wrong.
BTW I should be able to play my turn tonight, so Genkis Khan please get ready as you will be up tomorrow.
Smackster
smackster
SGOTM
Mad-Bax,
Alan and I always play same day, he said he would finish tonight (UK time), so I can get it (US time) and play it same day (assuming that nothing external gets in the way of either of us). So Gengis will be up tomorrow (or probably late tonight).
Smackster
Alan and I always play same day, he said he would finish tonight (UK time), so I can get it (US time) and play it same day (assuming that nothing external gets in the way of either of us). So Gengis will be up tomorrow (or probably late tonight).
Smackster
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Alan, Thanks for the primer on trading. 
I need to get better at it and your advice will help me. I'll go back and replay it.
The reason I went for Math was to get to a tech that the AI usually don't research for a while, namely currency. At 50-turn research, this may be very difficult and may prove to be a
move. However, if we actually do get a monopoly on a tech it could be huge for us. I thought it was worth the money to put us in position for a gambit. However, this is probably another thing I need to improve in my game play.
Bugs
I need to get better at it and your advice will help me. I'll go back and replay it.The reason I went for Math was to get to a tech that the AI usually don't research for a while, namely currency. At 50-turn research, this may be very difficult and may prove to be a
move. However, if we actually do get a monopoly on a tech it could be huge for us. I thought it was worth the money to put us in position for a gambit. However, this is probably another thing I need to improve in my game play.Bugs
smackster
SGOTM
Have we worked out why we are getting 50 turn research paths yet?
You are right that if we get it at a Monopoly then it would be a big benefit, but usually we wont. Actually I can't even remember what level this game is at? On Diety we would surely get beaten to it.
My general rules for tech on the higher levels in the Ancient age, are to research on minimum, only buy Writing and MM, and research down a path that I think I'll get a monopoly on, and sometimes push the research button if if makes a big difference (say Monarchy in 24).
Time will tell if we can get Currency.
Nothing I ever say is a critisicm, just observations, trying to start discussions and improve all our games. This is the last time I say this.
Smackster
You are right that if we get it at a Monopoly then it would be a big benefit, but usually we wont. Actually I can't even remember what level this game is at? On Diety we would surely get beaten to it.
My general rules for tech on the higher levels in the Ancient age, are to research on minimum, only buy Writing and MM, and research down a path that I think I'll get a monopoly on, and sometimes push the research button if if makes a big difference (say Monarchy in 24).
Time will tell if we can get Currency.
Nothing I ever say is a critisicm, just observations, trying to start discussions and improve all our games. This is the last time I say this.
Smackster
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I accept all comments and criticism. That is the way I learn. So long as no one is flaming on me, I will listen to, review, study, and try to learn from all comments. I accept that my game isn't at the level of other players and one of the ways I can improve is through constructive criticism. Again thank you Alan for an excellent instructional post. If I get some time in the next three days (doubtful, work is a bear at the moment) I plan on going over it trade by trade. If not, Thanksgiving morning will find me playing MB4A at year 1000 BC.... again.
Ahhh! Just came up for air after playing the moves.
Preflight
Surprised to see no irrigation on the food bonuses at Ise. Food bonuses = population, and population makes everything else at this stage. I'll let he workers do what they're doing then mess up someone's work!
MM to improve gold output and reduce Azuchi's shield waste a tad.
Trading check - well I've already mentioned the problem with the world map deficit.
Next turn
Tokugawa declares war on Mori.
Azuchi Footman -> Warrior
Nagoya Settler -> Settler
Ogaki Warrior -> Warrior
Handa Warrior -> Warrior
Suzuka Warrior -> Warrior
Wow! That's what I call productivity. Nice one, Bugsy.
Turn 1: 730BC
Build Komaki near the southern horses -> Warrior (5 turns)
Build Hikone on the north cape -> Barracks (MM to 10 turns)
Slider back to 9.1.0, MM cities to 33 gpt.
Diplo. Another look around, and the map situation is not so bad after all. I buy Mori's WM for our WM plus 7 gold. Chosogabe also offers a WM swap with little differential, so these guys still don't know Takeda's secret spaces. Deals are still possible. Mori has cash, and both have Confucianism.
So I buy Takeda's WM plus a worker for 84 gold + WM to use as a stake. Mori has 40 gold and will give it for our WM. Check that this is a reasonable price by comparing his price for Confucianism with and without WM. The price difference is 47 gold, so 40 cash is not too bad. Sell WP to Mori for 40 gold,and then buy Confucianism from Chosogabe for 68 + WM.
Bottom line: For 112 gold we get a worker (worth about 28 gold on today's slave exchange) plus the balance of the world map (worth about 70 gold according to the guys who had it to sell) plus Confucianism. Not a bad day at the office
Takeda still wants our first born and all our concubines for Civil Service. Let's try a little mild extortion. I check the power curve and sell peace treaties to Kuroda (99 gold + WM) and Chosogabe (72 + WM - all he has). We don't want 20 turns of peace with Tokugawa, and I'm not too sure whether we have a power advantage over Takeda.
There's a barb camp on the south coast. Must try to get down there for some cash.
IBT
Tokugawa moves on through, going east for his appointment with Mori. Kuroda archer attacks and presumably kills an invisible barb on the southern mountains.
Yokkachi completes Temple, starts Warrior.
Turn 2: 710BC
Build the next city on the south coast. The name generator has reached the end of its list already, so we get New Azuchi. OK, let's make some of our own. This one's called Sir Bugsy, and starts building a Junk for a little offshore cruising, maybe some water skiing if we can find a sloping bit.
Diplo check: Takeda is clearly suffering from barbs, He sells another worker for 27 gold + WM.
IBT
Azuchi Warrior -> Warrior
Ise Warrior -> Warrior
Turn 3: 690BC
Switch Komaki to Barracks, as we are producing Warriors fast and furious and we don't need regulars. Keep on MM'ing.
IBT
Handa Warrior -> Warrior
Suzuka Warrior -> Forbidden Palace. Feel free to discuss and disagree.
Moriyama-ku Barracks -> Warrior
Turn 4: 670BC
Moving Warriors out to the two holding positions at Handa (TFT South) and Koromo (TFT North).
MM for max gold, max food, min waste.
IBT
Azuchi Warrior -> Worker
Nagoya Settler -> Settler
Kuromo Temple -> Warrior
Ogaki Warrior -> Warrior
Turn 5: 650BC
Sorry Sir Bugsy - start irrigating the wine at Ise.
Change Handa to Worker.
IBT
Ise Warrior -> Warrior
Yokkachi expands. The northern iron is ours. The guest workers are building the road.
Turn 6: 630BC
Move Settler and Warriors. Have to work around a continuous stream of Tokugawa horses passing through. Sell our WM around for 10 gold.
IBT
Red lined squid seen off the north coast. Someone had a ship once!
Azachi Worker -> Warrior
Handa Worker -> Warrior
Yokkachi Warrior -> Worker
Ichinomiya Worker -> Worker
Turn 7: 610BC
A couple of Warriors are checking out the south coast. Kuruda archers take out the barb came before I can reach it. I'm going to post a warrior on the southern headland to watch for contacts across the narrows. I decide to post a second MP in Nagoya, as it's too risky trying to move temps in and out as the pop rises and falls, with the Tokugawa horses tramping through our streets and getting in the way.
I consider briefly trying to tech broker Civil Service, which is still an monopoly for Takeda - he must have popped a hut for that. However, thre's only about 300 available, and he wants over 500 for it over time.
IBT
Koromo Warrior -> Warrior
Ogaki Warrior -> Warrior
Turn 8: 590BC
Build our next city - Smackster, in the west. That will become a new forward base for TFT South, so it starts on a Barracks for running repairs. I've moved a couple of Warriors there as garrison to show we mean business. I've also added second guards in Ise and the other eastern city.
IBT
Azuchi Warrior -> Horseman - I think a little diversity might be a good thing. We have a lot of Warriors for upgrade to Kensai Oda now, and as we approach the end of the Ancient Era and look forward to the age of Chivalry, we are going to need some swift horses to cover those plains to the west.
Nagoya Settler -> Settler
Ise Warrior -> Warrior
Koromo expands
Turn 9: 570BC
Tokugawa has razed a Mori city east of our borders.
The power curve now indicates we can make a painless extraction of 40 gold from Takeda for a peace treaty. So I do
IBT
Handa Warrior -> Warrior
Turn 10: 550BC
Build Karasu. It's a bit close to Ichinomiya, but they share mountains, and there's plenty for everyone on the Ise plain.
Firaxis score is 378
We have iron hooked up next turn, a couple of dozen Warriors demanding iron swords and armour waiting in our forward positions, and we have over 600 gold in the treasury. Smackster San will have the honour to lead us into the field of battle. The nation's eyes are upon you. I suspect we could persuade Takeda to join the fight and split Tokugawa's forces east and west.
Remember that if we go to war with the Kensai we'll probably trigger a Golden Age. Pity we didn't go hell for leather for Monarchy, but there you go.
Here's the save, and here's a couple of screen shots to keep you all amused.
Preflight
Surprised to see no irrigation on the food bonuses at Ise. Food bonuses = population, and population makes everything else at this stage. I'll let he workers do what they're doing then mess up someone's work!
MM to improve gold output and reduce Azuchi's shield waste a tad.
Trading check - well I've already mentioned the problem with the world map deficit.
Next turn
Tokugawa declares war on Mori.
Azuchi Footman -> Warrior
Nagoya Settler -> Settler
Ogaki Warrior -> Warrior
Handa Warrior -> Warrior
Suzuka Warrior -> Warrior
Wow! That's what I call productivity. Nice one, Bugsy.
Turn 1: 730BC
Build Komaki near the southern horses -> Warrior (5 turns)
Build Hikone on the north cape -> Barracks (MM to 10 turns)
Slider back to 9.1.0, MM cities to 33 gpt.
Diplo. Another look around, and the map situation is not so bad after all. I buy Mori's WM for our WM plus 7 gold. Chosogabe also offers a WM swap with little differential, so these guys still don't know Takeda's secret spaces. Deals are still possible. Mori has cash, and both have Confucianism.
So I buy Takeda's WM plus a worker for 84 gold + WM to use as a stake. Mori has 40 gold and will give it for our WM. Check that this is a reasonable price by comparing his price for Confucianism with and without WM. The price difference is 47 gold, so 40 cash is not too bad. Sell WP to Mori for 40 gold,and then buy Confucianism from Chosogabe for 68 + WM.
Bottom line: For 112 gold we get a worker (worth about 28 gold on today's slave exchange) plus the balance of the world map (worth about 70 gold according to the guys who had it to sell) plus Confucianism. Not a bad day at the office
Takeda still wants our first born and all our concubines for Civil Service. Let's try a little mild extortion. I check the power curve and sell peace treaties to Kuroda (99 gold + WM) and Chosogabe (72 + WM - all he has). We don't want 20 turns of peace with Tokugawa, and I'm not too sure whether we have a power advantage over Takeda.
There's a barb camp on the south coast. Must try to get down there for some cash.
IBT
Tokugawa moves on through, going east for his appointment with Mori. Kuroda archer attacks and presumably kills an invisible barb on the southern mountains.
Yokkachi completes Temple, starts Warrior.
Turn 2: 710BC
Build the next city on the south coast. The name generator has reached the end of its list already, so we get New Azuchi. OK, let's make some of our own. This one's called Sir Bugsy, and starts building a Junk for a little offshore cruising, maybe some water skiing if we can find a sloping bit.
Diplo check: Takeda is clearly suffering from barbs, He sells another worker for 27 gold + WM.
IBT
Azuchi Warrior -> Warrior
Ise Warrior -> Warrior
Turn 3: 690BC
Switch Komaki to Barracks, as we are producing Warriors fast and furious and we don't need regulars. Keep on MM'ing.
IBT
Handa Warrior -> Warrior
Suzuka Warrior -> Forbidden Palace. Feel free to discuss and disagree.
Moriyama-ku Barracks -> Warrior
Turn 4: 670BC
Moving Warriors out to the two holding positions at Handa (TFT South) and Koromo (TFT North).
MM for max gold, max food, min waste.
IBT
Azuchi Warrior -> Worker
Nagoya Settler -> Settler
Kuromo Temple -> Warrior
Ogaki Warrior -> Warrior
Turn 5: 650BC
Sorry Sir Bugsy - start irrigating the wine at Ise.
Change Handa to Worker.
IBT
Ise Warrior -> Warrior
Yokkachi expands. The northern iron is ours. The guest workers are building the road.
Turn 6: 630BC
Move Settler and Warriors. Have to work around a continuous stream of Tokugawa horses passing through. Sell our WM around for 10 gold.
IBT
Red lined squid seen off the north coast. Someone had a ship once!
Azachi Worker -> Warrior
Handa Worker -> Warrior
Yokkachi Warrior -> Worker
Ichinomiya Worker -> Worker
Turn 7: 610BC
A couple of Warriors are checking out the south coast. Kuruda archers take out the barb came before I can reach it. I'm going to post a warrior on the southern headland to watch for contacts across the narrows. I decide to post a second MP in Nagoya, as it's too risky trying to move temps in and out as the pop rises and falls, with the Tokugawa horses tramping through our streets and getting in the way.
I consider briefly trying to tech broker Civil Service, which is still an monopoly for Takeda - he must have popped a hut for that. However, thre's only about 300 available, and he wants over 500 for it over time.
IBT
Koromo Warrior -> Warrior
Ogaki Warrior -> Warrior
Turn 8: 590BC
Build our next city - Smackster, in the west. That will become a new forward base for TFT South, so it starts on a Barracks for running repairs. I've moved a couple of Warriors there as garrison to show we mean business. I've also added second guards in Ise and the other eastern city.
IBT
Azuchi Warrior -> Horseman - I think a little diversity might be a good thing. We have a lot of Warriors for upgrade to Kensai Oda now, and as we approach the end of the Ancient Era and look forward to the age of Chivalry, we are going to need some swift horses to cover those plains to the west.
Nagoya Settler -> Settler
Ise Warrior -> Warrior
Koromo expands
Turn 9: 570BC
Tokugawa has razed a Mori city east of our borders.
The power curve now indicates we can make a painless extraction of 40 gold from Takeda for a peace treaty. So I do
IBT
Handa Warrior -> Warrior
Turn 10: 550BC
Build Karasu. It's a bit close to Ichinomiya, but they share mountains, and there's plenty for everyone on the Ise plain.
Firaxis score is 378
We have iron hooked up next turn, a couple of dozen Warriors demanding iron swords and armour waiting in our forward positions, and we have over 600 gold in the treasury. Smackster San will have the honour to lead us into the field of battle. The nation's eyes are upon you. I suspect we could persuade Takeda to join the fight and split Tokugawa's forces east and west.
Remember that if we go to war with the Kensai we'll probably trigger a Golden Age. Pity we didn't go hell for leather for Monarchy, but there you go.
Here's the save, and here's a couple of screen shots to keep you all amused.
I think that's probably Cracker's way of telling us to either research at max or not at all. I think it also takes away the issue of one turn start delay followed by two 40 turn research projects just missing the QSC date.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
smackster: you are UP, as you know.
Genghis, could you please let me know if your installation runs OK?
If you are having any trouble I know of a guy who might be able to help you out
Just for accuracy... cracker upped the minimum turns/tech to 50 as one of several measures to slow research. I requested a game with a slow tech pace purely to get value out of all the effort that had gone into these units, but which I didn't see in the GOTM proper.
I quite like it.
Genghis, could you please let me know if your installation runs OK?
If you are having any trouble I know of a guy who might be able to help you out
Just for accuracy... cracker upped the minimum turns/tech to 50 as one of several measures to slow research. I requested a game with a slow tech pace purely to get value out of all the effort that had gone into these units, but which I didn't see in the GOTM proper.
I quite like it.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Very cool. I get a seaport named after me! Every sailor's dream.
I've now learned two things today from you Alan... the peace treaty negotiations. I've read about them, but that's the first time I've seen them used.
We could probably get the Mori to pay us for a MA against Tokugawa.
Now smackster gets to have some serious fun. Gengis, this will right up your alley.
Bugs
Every sailor's dream.I've now learned two things today from you Alan... the peace treaty negotiations. I've read about them, but that's the first time I've seen them used.
We could probably get the Mori to pay us for a MA against Tokugawa.
Now smackster gets to have some serious fun. Gengis, this will right up your alley.
Bugs
