MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [civ3] Roster A

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Quick summary as you want to get on with it:

We've taken out all but Tokugawa's last two cities. I recommend we take out the current capital and then get Feudal Warlords and the kitchen sink out of him for peace, leave him on that little spit of land and build around him.

We have a couple of cities with taxmen as they have grown bigger and are getting restless. I think that's still more cost effective than raising the lux slider to 20%.

There are settlers in place or close on the south coast to eat up some land. we wre beaten to one prime site by Kuroda, but there's room between him and Takeda. Nagoya is on a holiday from settler production while its pop builds again. You may want to MM it and Azuchi.

I think we are OK. Our Firaxis score is 694 and we just hit the top of the table. We need to start thinking about our next target - probably Takeda, but we need to gather some troops into position. Our adviser is telling us we are outnumbered, and of course they'll have pikes in some cities soon. We have about 10 turns of peace treaty left, if that means anything to the ROP rapist from SG23 ;)
 
Got it.

I will play tonight, but wont be able to post until Monday.

BTW I think I first broke a peace alliance in SG23, but don't recall doing an actual ROP rape and there is a difference of course.
 
Roster:

Karasu (Returns 5th December)
Sir Bugsy
AlanH
smackster UP
Teknoice ON DECK

I'll PM Teknoice to warn him he's up next, as we haven't heard from him for a while.
 
Originally posted by smackster
BTW I think I first broke a peace alliance in SG23, but don't recall doing an actual ROP rape and there is a difference of course.
I know, but you really, really wanted to, didn't you!

Just a warning:

I learnt the hard way in GOTM25 that if you have a single deal that includes an alliance and a peace treaty then if you break the alliance, for example by destroying the enemy, then you are automatically at war with your previous ally. It's obvious really, but I'm a bit slow on the uptake. It happened to me at least twice in GOTM25, once with two allies at the same time. The first I knew that something had happened was when my allies stopped returning my calls. No declaration, no drama, just a new red line on the F4 screen. You are deemed to have declared war by breaking the combined deal.

The relevance here is that I bundled a peace treaty plus an alliance vs. Mori to extract a large gpt deal from Chosogabe ten turns ago. I should probably have done two separate deals. As it is, if we were to destroy Mori or make peace with them within ten more turns then we would be at war with Chosogabe. We would also lose the gpt income, of course.
 
It always seems that if you have an alliance then destroying the enemy is ok, but from what you are saying the combined deals are risky. I got that "war without declaration" in our GOTM 23 when I broke our first deal, I think its a CIV3 bug, as I don't ever see that in PTW.
 
@mad-bax: Thanks for updating the graph in your first post.
Please note that your roster is incorrect. Either it is still as it was before your weekend break, or it anticipates the status after Smackster plays today.

Smackster is UP and Teknoice is On Deck.
I have PM'd Teknoice to warn him that he will be up soon.

@The team: The graph indicates we can leave the others eating our dust. Let's keep up the good work. :goodjob:
 
I've corrected the first post. Note: Karasu will be away 'till the 8th, not the 5th as previously stated. Sorry for the confusion.

Alan, I shall enjoy watching you eat your words. ;) :D
 
I am curious if I can retrurn to my spot in this SG. Sorry for not telling you about my AWOL sessions. Pleasse do accept me back :).

If it is not possible for me to return, I understand :(. Please make sure to include me in the next GOTM SG.
 
Smackster-san back in charge of the Oda

50AD

Looking the map position, decide that Takeda should be our next victim. I do not intend to break any treaties yet so my 10 turns will simply be preperation for that attack. See that we can end the Alliance with Karuda against Mori, so stop that (we were paying them 1GPT), as this will give us flexibility to attack them, I'll asses the wars as we go on an may sign up another if there are not enough going on. Will continue with Alans plan to get Fuedal Warlords of Tokugawa when they are down to one city, don't like the culture flip chance but our culture does appear to be catching them so will take the risk, we will starve any Toku citizens that we see.

Get embassy with Shimazu to see if they will join in some war, they will fight Mori for Monarchy and 5 gold. My theory is they will get that soon anyway even if it does help them, and I want them to start fighting. Now I work out who Mori is I see that they have a city not far from us, so decide to take that too (when I meet them I find they are a colourful orange). Can get ROP with Karuda to help our passage, that will help their passage over our land for their Settler, but I'm really not worried about that, we'll take it back after Takeda have gone, if they start to run too many through our land we'll head them off. On a related subject I see nearly 30 Takeda troops trying to get to Tokugawa, this presents an opportunity to herd them with our troops so that when we decide to attack them all 30 are in range for attack, which should make them a much easier target and give us some leader opportunities. I'll take some photo's of my herding, I did this in GOTM 25 and had a turn where I killed about 20 Koreans that I had stuck in my land. The tricky part would be if they declared war on us, but we'll keep that in mind and be careful.

Did some warrior upgrades, sorry are we saving for something, Knights maybe.

IBT Sorry did I say 30 Takeda, call it 35 now.

T1 70AD

Karasu horse->horse

New Nagoya built, ->warrior

Our Junk moves towards the Island that we see in the fog, I'm playing this like I don't know where the other land mass is, just going for what looks logical.

4 workers complete southern road over to Kofu, but now I need them to help me do a bit of sheep herding.

IBT Add an Archer army to those 35 Takeda troops, the net is closing, will hold of the last attack on Toku so make sure we close it, trick is not to block of the root to the Toku cities pr they would start to go home.

T2 90AD

Azuchi horse->temple, why well its only 4 turns as the temples are so cheap in this game, and we really are struggling on culture so I think the trade off is worth it
Suzuka horse->horse

The Takeda Army has two archers and a warrior !!!!!!!!!!!

Built Clacton-on-Sea strangely enough on the sea to the south.
Built AlanHwick, not exactly sure where this guy is going, only just noticed him, seems ok to build him where he is

Buy worker from Takeda

90_copy.jpg


IBT The Takeda herding plan is not working as they have a steady line of troops going both directions, just cant cut it off, they get up to 10 in a straigh line, can't find the end.

T3 110AD

Yokachi horse->horse

Kill our first Mori and horse upgrades to elite. I love their colour and the animation on them

T4 130AD

komaki horse->horse
hikone oda->oda
smackster temple->horse

Cut off Takeda but with one of our troops in their area, will it stick?

T5 150AD

Nagoya settler->horse
Ichi horse->horse
Handa horse->horse

Now we have trapped the Takeda troops, 42 troops and 3 in an army all sealed off until we decide to kill them. If they attack us then it wont be nice, but we do have a lot of troops in the area.

We take Yokaichi, declare peace with Toku, get Feudal Warlords, Republic and Literacy. We move our troop from in front of their last city and allow Takeda to wipe them out with their stacks, while we herd them into bigger groups. I love it when plan works out.

We now have tech parity researching Monothism with a scientist. Would really like to get Knights sooner than this, but assume that others will research this much sooner either way so we can trade for it.

they_cant_get_out_copy1.jpg


IBT Kofu flips to Toku with only one citizen, damn, damn, damn, this really messes up our herding plan, no doubt Takeda will attack that if they can, damn, damn, damn

T6 170AD

Ise horse->horse
Koroma horse->horse
Ogaki horse->horse
Suzuka horse->horse
Komano barracks->horse

Can still cut off 27 of the Takeda troops, but the others can take Kofu and I can't stop them then I wont be able to block them

IBT Toku are destroyed, just one turn, one turn and the plan would have been perfect.

T7 190AD

Looks like we might still be able to block off all their troops around Kofu too.

T8 210AD

Nothing much going on

T9 230AD

New Ise built

T10 250AD

Somebody discovered the other Continent and all have their contacts. Both Monothism and Engineering (at least) are available. Not all have both, so we should be able to buy contacts and probably trade for both of them. As its turn 10 I'm not doing any of it so there are many questions left unanswered, this turn is key for us.
The peace with Takeda is over, so we can attack them after this, not quite sure I would do it yet, maybe wait two more turns to get the troops in place.

When war is declared watch out for our workers in their land, and our junk skimming the Takeda land. There is a few of our troops on the way to Mori, who can now see a stack of Mori Oda.

Also noticed this turn that the 25GPT negotiated with Karuda for peace and tech (or whatever it was) is still active and we need to renegotiate to get rid of the 25gpt so we should do that.

The next few turns should be fun.

250ad_copy.jpg


Score 832

.zip

P.S. Two things I forgot to do, 1) to send a troop down to the Takeda iron, still worth sending it now and its next to free space, will take a while to get there Sorry. 2) When I cut off Takeda they stopped moving so they are not quite positioned right, its actually easy to herd them where you want them to go, just give them an outlet somewhere (somewhere you can block off before they get there), and they will all move that way, then you block off the exit.

I recommend attacking them soon, I didn't count our troops but we do have a lot and of their 45 troops at least 40 are defence 1, so it should be mincemeat, and leader time.

P.P.S Might be worth asking Takeda to leave our territory as they may declare war, they would just get pushed further into our net.

Smackster
 
Excellent work, Smackster. :thumbsup: You didn't get to do too much fighting, but your preparations look superb.

The gaudy wheel of fortune slows to a crawl, stops, then lurches once more and the fickle finger of fate points to ...

Teknoice. You are UP.

Roster:

Karasu (Returns 8th December)
Sir Bugsy ON DECK
AlanH
Smackster
Teknoice UP
 
CivGeneral.

The three reliable players on the roster (Bugsy, Alan and smackster) can PM me. If they all respond and unanimously ask for you to be put back on the roster then that is what will happen. If the decision is not unanimous then the roster will remain unchanged. I'm not abdicating responsibility, I just feel that these team members deserve to have what they want.

Nobody died and made me God.
 
Alan, I shall enjoy watching you eat your words

Happy to do so, as and when. Flying pigs? What flying pigs? :p
 
Alan and smackster that was terrific!! I would have never guessed that Tokugawa would be gone in 16 turns. I suppose having Takeda helping out certainly helped.

My preference would be to continue warring to the south. Perhaps we can convince Takeda to declare on us by asking him to leave our lands or renegotiating peace.

Once again we can bring Kuroda in to help us.

One note of warning when including an MA in a peace treaty: before you kill the last city of a civ or make peace you need to renegotiate the peace treaty. Otherwise, you are right back at war and often in a very bad position.
 
Agreed, in general we should try to avoid resources, alliances, and luxuries in peace deals, just avoid anything that can be broken by other means. Once you break one deal you are done for the rest of the game. Currently we can still buy tech for GPT, and it would be nice to keep that until we are sure we want to break our reputation. ROP does not seem to be affected by other deal breaks.
 
smackster, it's not our rep I'm worried about. In my first attempt at a GOTM....Spain (20?) I made peace with civ "A" and included a MA in it against civ "B" (sorry, I can't remember the civs, this was in June). When I destroyed the last city of Civ B, I was suddenly back at war with civ A. They had troops throughout my lands and promptly cut the number of cities that were Spanish in half. (I never did finish that game :( )

I have since learned that you have to renegotiate the peace treaty before capturing the last city to avoid this from happening.

Bugs

[Edit] - P.S. @ mad-bax, will we be able to read the other threads up to a certain point like CF arranged for the SG23 games?
 
I think that is a good idea. I will post page numbers in the first post which will indicate where the graph ends fro each team... if you see what I mean.

I see no reason why you can't read up to that point. Won't be tonight though.
 
Sir Bugsy,

Double risk then of tying MA to a peace renegotiation.

Of course you should always watch the AI as they wander through your land. Having been sneaked attacked 4 times in the GOTM25 I know all about that one. And I did eventually win it, albeit about 1000 years after I would have liked.

Smackster
 
I was sneak attacked four times also, Egypt, Kelts, Han, Tokugawa. I wonder if cracker can pre-program that kind of stuff?

Sorry for the off-topic.

I also watch the AI, and try to not have unguarded cities nearby that might tempt them. Unless I want to tempt them :mwaha:
 
I don't think this is too off topic, I think its relevant to this game. For instance our border with Karuda is probably safe because of all the mountains which would slow them down. But I tend to think there is a fair amount of randomness in sneak attacks, sometimes the AI just does it when it makes no sense, but other times like in that game of the month where I had too many undguarded cities near my neighbour who proceeded to take them.
 
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