Micro Challenge III

[Izuul]

Not realistic, but a lot of fun nonetheless. I think it did at least start as a micro exercise before it morphed into something that more closely resembled a fantasy RPG/RTS than Civ.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Trying all possible combinations to get the desired result isn't actually a micro, since in normal games you don't have so many tries (you have exactly one) and normally try to do intuitive and logical stuff. I am sorry all the irrational exploits will never be banned or shunned at least.

This isn't true. Test games are popular in XOTM and SGOTM, although perhaps less so in plain HoF. The idea is to re-create important facets of the map (IE start, micro situation) and then test different approaches, with the goal of micro optimization usually being the one in mind.

It's legal in the strict and logical sense (after all, playing any game concurrently with a given game is 100% fine), but allows one to duplicate the micro attempts. It goes beyond my patience, but you can indeed do exercises like this with effort in any game without resorting to reloads or worldbuilder.

Edit: and yes, this is more of a "mechanics abuse" challenge than a micro challenge.

Spoiler :

The only true micro decisions are how you ship your units to the 1st island and how you micro your workers on it...and there are multiple solutions that get the same functional result there. After that, it morphs into straight knowledge of mechanics and abusing them, via maxing how far you can teleport.

 

[shakabrade]

This isn't true. Test games are popular in XOTM and SGOTM, although perhaps less so in plain HoF. The idea is to re-create important facets of the map (IE start, micro situation) and then test different approaches, with the goal of micro optimization usually being the one in mind.

It's legal in the strict and logical sense (after all, playing any game concurrently with a given game is 100% fine), but allows one to duplicate the micro attempts. It goes beyond my patience, but you can indeed do exercises like this with effort in any game without resorting to reloads or worldbuilder.

I'd take back what I said if I could. I did quite a lot of testing in SOTM 16 and am a bit of a hypocrite now. However, I'd like things like test maps weren't possible. It is only ok cause everyone is doing it. Effort invested in setting the test map up doesn't make it more right. However, that is just my opinion and don't want to provoke an offtopic discussion/war here. It is just my frustration cause I generally support ''play by feel and logic'' philosophy.

Edit: and yes, this is more of a "mechanics abuse" challenge than a micro challenge.

What I like is that after some of these challenges, a lot more of people will know about them and advantage one gets with these abuses in competitive play will be diminished. Only thing more wrong than abusing in civ, is hiding it from others (opinion).

Spoiler :

The only true micro decisions are how you ship your units to the 1st island and how you micro your workers on it...and there are multiple solutions that get the same functional result there. After that, it morphs into straight knowledge of mechanics and abusing them, via maxing how far you can teleport.

Agreed!


Although I might sound way too critical, I am a fan of these Micro Challenges. I can generally say that after kossin and other teammates forced me to think about micro in our SGOTM tests, my ''play by feel'' micro has improved significantly. Completing these tedious challenges is a great investment for the future civving.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It is just my frustration cause I generally support ''play by feel and logic'' philosophy.

I obviously play fast and loose, but at the fundamental level civ IV is a #'s game, and most direct gameplay mechanics can be planned quite well in advance. I don't see the functional difference between making a "test save" and running a spreadsheet with all of the city values, for example. Both of these accomplish the same goal through the same means; using something other than the current game as a tool to help plan in the current game.

Where do you draw the line in usage of those things? Is it too far to use a spreadsheet? What about a calculator? What about doing math in one's head? I don't see a major difference in any of these approaches; they are all using the same information and trying to do the same thing, and people will even be better at different approaches.

 

[DanF5771]

So teleportation mechanics is different for closing Open Borders and for declaring war...
Like teleporting wasn't already far-fetched.

Spoiler :

interesting, it's the gifting of the city which is problematic, as revealing the new ownership of the adjacent plots doesn't work as assumed - triggering a double jump, first 1W and then 2W
I placed a barb Galley 1W to invalidate that plot as a jump target, so that our Galley has to jump 2E directly. The culture shows that the ownership is not updated correctly

 

[shakabrade]

I obviously play fast and loose, but at the fundamental level civ IV is a #'s game, and most direct gameplay mechanics can be planned quite well in advance. I don't see the functional difference between making a "test save" and running a spreadsheet with all of the city values, for example. Both of these accomplish the same goal through the same means; using something other than the current game as a tool to help plan in the current game.

Where do you draw the line in usage of those things? Is it too far to use a spreadsheet? What about a calculator? What about doing math in one's head? I don't see a major difference in any of these approaches; they are all using the same information and trying to do the same thing, and people will even be better at different approaches.

I guess you are right. I am an engineer and my mind is tweaked for numbers. Some people deal with numbers less frequently and can't deal with so many parameters at once while they still have great ideas and strategies. Competitive play is usually too much for any brain and having test game frees ones memory for more creative stuff.

I am converted.

No more offtopicing. More praise for iggy.

 

[kossin]

Turn 5

This, I did not expect however. Well done, I learned something new

 

[iggymnrr]

Impressive! What I admire the most is iggy's faith that he could do better than T7.

Maybe, but I did see both the worker + settler and the worker + worker approaches lead to the same turn 7 finish. The faith part came naturally.

This, I did not expect however. Well done, I learned something new

This challenge made me learn teleportation. The DOW trick might have come from popping maps down on settler level. (Eventually you will DOW an AI that you learned about via a map only to discover that you did things the normal way -- OB and scouting. The horns of war don't go off when moving in and a subsequent DOW might do some funny things to units.)

 

[Tall German Joe]

This isn't true. Test games are popular in XOTM and SGOTM, although perhaps less so in plain HoF. The idea is to re-create important facets of the map (IE start, micro situation) and then test different approaches, with the goal of micro optimization usually being the one in mind.

It's legal in the strict and logical sense (after all, playing any game concurrently with a given game is 100% fine), but allows one to duplicate the micro attempts. It goes beyond my patience, but you can indeed do exercises like this with effort in any game without resorting to reloads or worldbuilder.

Edit: and yes, this is more of a "mechanics abuse" challenge than a micro challenge.

Spoiler :

The only true micro decisions are how you ship your units to the 1st island and how you micro your workers on it...and there are multiple solutions that get the same functional result there. After that, it morphs into straight knowledge of mechanics and abusing them, via maxing how far you can teleport.

that whole style of play seems really absurd to me. what's next, writing a "test game mod" that's scriptable to play every situation in hundreds of possible combinations? at what point are you no longer even really playing a game?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

that whole style of play seems really absurd to me. what's next, writing a "test game mod" that's scriptable to play every situation in hundreds of possible combinations? at what point are you no longer even really playing a game?

Keep in mind that I'm saying this as one of the fastest time spent/game players here, but we all do something functionally similar to test games or spreadsheet planning every time we play. It's truly a matter of the level of detail one cares to pursue. It's very much a game still, and people can have fun doing it, though I don't.

I would actually relish a spreadsheet that did a reasonable job with micromanagement heuristics and could be manipulated quickly, but just making THAT is a daunting task. Regardless, it's 100% valid play and even advisable should one actually enjoy doing it.

I'm pretty sure the only environment I could be competitive against reasonably good players is with a blazing timer, because micro planning is far more limited there.

 

[iggymnrr]

Turn Six and a Third

Spoiler :

I managed to improve the settler + worker start to where I have 1 galley with 1 movement and 1 galley with 3 movement points left. Both are in the right spot at the right time. The problem is that there is no useful mechanical bumps to exploit the situation. I might be missing something at this final stage. (If you've seen one of those shuffle stack puzzles on Survivor, you can figure out the technique.)

 

[iggymnrr]

Nightmare Solution, Galleon Style

Spoiler :

OB everyone except Taco, gifting mysticism. Switch to serfdom. Send galleon back to the capitol. Send 2 workers to nearest hill and build fort. Pick up the 2 settlers and take them to hill with workers. Move 1 settler to next hill. Found city there. Should be turn 4 and fort will finish. Sail 1 galley into pond and gift city to Zara. Put 1 settler onto the galley in pond. Delete all other units except galleon and prophet. When galleon gets to capitol load prophet and head towards Zara's city. The galleon should get to pond with 1 move left. This is important! Manually move galleon into pond. ZARA's borders should have just popped (turn 9) Now DOW Zara. Both galley and galleon will get a REALLY friendly bump. Move galley to 2nd roadblock and unload settler and delete galley. Galleon will still have a move left so keep going. Next turn sail through city and gift it to SB and DOW. The galleon should get a bump and be able to sail into the jungle dead zone, expending it's movement. Keep sailing and DOW Freddy, Liz and Alex always catching a bump forward. DOW Taco and sail into shrine city. The galleon should end it's movement there on turn 13. Unload prophet and build shrine.

Who said the galleon was a red herring?

 

[Mec AntiKythera]

Another interesting challenge, it looks like you had fun making this one.

 

[rfcfanatic]

Turn 15

Spoiler :

Sent the Workers to build some roads so I could faster move my 1st Settler to the future location of Nobamba - 1E from the flatland grassland. I ordered Nobamba to build Culture. At the same time my workers built a grassland mine which helped to get the border pop faster. After the border pop my Galleys were able to cross the ocean tiles and transport the 2nd Settler to the east where another strip of land was blocking the movement of my ships. By the time the city got settled, my Galleon had arrived. I picked up the GP, DoW'ed on the AI blocking the way and finally reached the holy city of Buddhism.

 

[Mec AntiKythera]

After many attempts looking for the spot to jump the mountains I managed T7. Anybody want to show a walk through of a T5 solution?

 

[kossin]

I'll get to it later today; comp required formatting which has considerably reduced my civ time this week.

 

[Mec AntiKythera]

Yeah, reformatting will do that!

No hurry, just curious about it.

 

[kossin]

Solution​

Spoiler :

Youtube somehow added a bunch of black screen at the start... I've trimmed it but at the time of this posting the higher resolutions still have approximately 36 seconds of black screen (skip). Annotations are buggy at the moment as well

My original solution was for T7 Mahabodhi but iggymnrr found that units inside a border are teleported differently if there was open borders or not... so here's T5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqJruvhLr-w

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm pretty sure you can edit videos directly on youtube and cut anything you want people to skip out.

 

[kossin]

Yea that's what I did, but it took forever to be edited (seems fixed now).