[mod] Warlords: Total Realism 2.3a

A mixture of Celts, Nordics and barbarians. Now that does sound typically English :)

Coming back to the tech thing. I'm noticing that because of the quite lengthy technology avenues you have to take, Great Wonders are being built later in the game and are being spread out more amongst the civs. You certainly have to give more thought to what you want to research and the smaller steps in military tech means that in order to dominate you must employ huge armies at huge financial cost. Which is how it should be.
As far as the scrolling bug goes I know that if I go to single unit graphics and lower detail my problems go away. But then I won't fully enjoy the new units. Decisions, decisions :crazyeye:
 
Hi all, I am playing at Prince level in a Pangea, with ten AI players and I have met two problems:

the first is that sometimes the screen freezes when I scroll over the map to give orders to my units, and I have to restart my pc.

the second problem is that I see enemie assassins! even if I haven't a my assassin near in the map, I can see other assassins going over my country...how it is possible?

It's fantastic the new tech tree, even if it's a little too slow, I haven't ever used swordmen for a so long time, It's very hard to finish tech tree until 2050 d.c.!

Last thing...TTR mod generates very beautiful Pangea world, very different one to other and very nice to play...I think you have changed something in world generator....simply fantastic! :goodjob:
 
I mean that it's not as close to realism as intended. It's nearly impossible on Prince level to be close to the "real" tech tree. It will need some changes. There are many solutions. We will look at that.

You could start by asking players to post the year/turn number they reach each era and the game difficulty. This will give you a broader base and different levels of experience to help you fine tune the tech advancement.

Just a thought.
 
You could start by asking players to post the year/turn number they reach each era and the game difficulty. This will give you a broader base and different levels of experience to help you fine tune the tech advancement.

Just a thought.

Hi Harrier,

It's a good thought. ;)

While testing, we used the system Vitez, Anaztazioch, Walter and me. But we can't go as far as we want. We tested from the beginning to late middle age - early renaissance. Lack of time. :cry:

The second problem is that we didn't included our new civic system. lack of time again. This one would solve three problems: research, army upkeep and happiness/health bonuses and maluses (at that time too much bonus).

Last but not least, a few buildings weren't included too. Again and again, lack of time. As an example, the Philosopher school (available with philosophy) as research/science building.

As you can see, there are still a lot of thing to tune and/or change.

Nevertheless, don't hesitate to give us the needed help to make the mod better. In that case, please use our private forum. Create a topic where you will give us the year/turn you change eras and the level and type of maps you're playing.

Hian the Frog.
 
So, TR team that tested the game:

You didn't think the MAF problems made this mod unplayable? One suggestion is to turn off autosave, but what if you want to save your game to come back another day? Do you know how annoying and a waste of time to play a game for a couple hours, and then when you're ready to quit and you try to save, then the MAF appears and you lost everything? It is really bad and I am unable to enjoy this mod. Do you guys have any info on BTS and your future port to this as far as MAF problems?
 
Do you know how annoying and a waste of time to play a game for a couple hours, and then when you're ready to quit and you try to save, then the MAF appears and you lost everything?

That's why I save each turn and loose 5 mins max.

I have recived MAF in 600ad when using WorldBuilder.
I have not recived MAF till 1700ad without Worldbuilder.

That's not a proper answer IMHO. The thing that you did not receive MAF does not mean anything when there are lots of other players (including me) reporting increased MAF activity. So either MAFs depend on some mystery we don't know yet or it just depends on luck/specific gameplay/types of actions etc. So I'd say "Yes, they do exist, the only thing can be done now is perform workaround solutions and have patience" instead of saying "I don't have MAFs".
 
So, losing 5 turns is acceptable for you? You must have a lot of spare time on your hands to load this mod back up, wait while you load the last save game(which can take awhile in itself once you get to later stages in the game), and then repeat the same steps you just completed in the last 4 turns before the crash. I am not that patient with computer games.
 
I played Washington at Prince level for more or less 600 turns in a huge pangea, with 10 Ai opponements...and I haven't MAF problems, but only some graphic bug, as workers and ship turned black.
I love this mod, but for my little impression, I think it's simpler than previous version.
With old tech tree, AI discovered Bronze earlier than human player, and advanced more before Human could close that gap.
With new tech tree, that is very slow, you can use for a longer time old units and you can restrict the gap.
I love some new techs, but do you think that the new tree is a little too big and that is no longer realistic with the time of the game?
I think to finish the game without any possible to discover all the techs or a good number of modern techs.
Can TTR chages in new version the speed or reduces the number of turn for any tech?
A last thing, as it's possible that assassin can only sabotage research even if in civilopedia there is written a lot of things that it can do? I don't understand if I need some tech to use other abilities or if it's a bug.
However new units are very beautiful and the diplomacy is very improved and realistic.
I know that you does this work for pleasure and I and we are aking you other work and other improvements, but this mod is so nice that for me is a stand alone game and not more "only a mod".
Thanks :goodjob:
 
So, losing 5 turns is acceptable for you? You must have a lot of spare time on your hands to load this mod back up, wait while you load the last save game(which can take awhile in itself once you get to later stages in the game), and then repeat the same steps you just completed in the last 4 turns before the crash. I am not that patient with computer games.

Why 5 turns? I save every turn not every 5 turns. So if I have to load after MAF then I loose only 1 turn. And reload takes 1-2 mins not 5 (just checked yesterday evening).
What is more annoying is total system hang when scrolling the map. Occured at least 5 times and then I have to reboot whole PC - this takes ~5 mins.

Btw if you're not patient with computer games then you should rather head for RTS types (or even FPS) not turn based strategies :) . But watch out with your impatience ;) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Fz9nIgy8w

I played Washington at Prince level for more or less 600 turns in a huge pangea, with 10 Ai opponements...and I haven't MAF problems, but only some graphic bug, as workers and ship turned black.

It's not mod related but more Civ/Warlords related. Just do alt+tab to desktop and then go back to the game. Works for me.

Can TTR chages in new version the speed or reduces the number of turn for any tech?

We're working on it.
 
I'm getting a "FATAL_ERROR" message saying:
"Memory allocation failure - exiting program.
Reason:bad allocation"
When I restart CIV and load the latest autosave I can continue, but after a while I get the same message...
Don't know if it's the mod or the program...

BTW! I really like this MOD! it's by far the greatest mod I've played and SO much better that the original CIV and expansions... I'm not even interested in BtS until you guys release the first mod for this...
Sorry about repeating everybody else :blush:
:D
 
Why 5 turns? I save every turn not every 5 turns. So if I have to load after MAF then I loose only 1 turn. And reload takes 1-2 mins not 5 (just checked yesterday evening).
What is more annoying is total system hang when scrolling the map. Occured at least 5 times and then I have to reboot whole PC - this takes ~5 mins.

Btw if you're not patient with computer games then you should rather head for RTS types (or even FPS) not turn based strategies :) . But watch out with your impatience ;) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Fz9nIgy8w



It's not mod related but more Civ/Warlords related. Just do alt+tab to desktop and then go back to the game. Works for me.



We're working on it.

Why 5 turns? I save every turn not every 5 turns. So if I have to load after MAF then I loose only 1 turn. And reload takes 1-2 mins not 5 (just checked yesterday evening).
What is more annoying is total system hang when scrolling the map. Occured at least 5 times and then I have to reboot whole PC - this takes ~5 mins.

Btw if you're not patient with computer games then you should rather head for RTS types (or even FPS) not turn based strategies . But watch out with your impatience : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Fz9nIgy8w


I never said it takes 5 minutes to load up your mod, as I have a brand new system. However, I'm sure it takes anywhere from 5-10 minutes for people with older systems to start your mod, then load their game back up.

Thanks for the suggestion about playing RTS games, but I'm sure I've been playing turn-based games longer than you have, including the original Civ. I don't think I will switch to RTS games as you suggested, but maybe to a semi stable mod that doesn't quit to desktop or freeze the PC all together. I do not mean this as an attack on you, but your reply seemed to be a little hostile telling me to switch to a different genre of games. Your mod is good, and has good ideas, but it has problems that make it unplayable for me, and I'm sure other people as well. This is my opinion, sorry if it offends you, but that is what forums are for, opinions. I hope you can resolve these problems in your BTS version, and I await that version. You have fallen behind other mods that are already popping up for BTS, but maybe yours will be better quality this time?
 
I never said it takes 5 minutes to load up your mod, as I have a brand new system. However, I'm sure it takes anywhere from 5-10 minutes for people with older systems to start your mod, then load their game back up.

Sorry, I was referring only to myself and my PC. I can't talk for everyone else. It's just my example that saving every turn gives me few mins delay only. Still I don't know where have you taken these 5 turns?

Thanks for the suggestion about playing RTS games, but I'm sure I've been playing turn-based games longer than you have, including the original Civ.

Can you share with me what makes you so sure about it?

I do not mean this as an attack on you, but your reply seemed to be a little hostile telling me to switch to a different genre of games.

It seems that you just have different sense of humour than me. Next time - read the smileys and then try to make more proper judgement whether givent opinion is hostile or not.

Your mod is good, and has good ideas, but it has problems that make it unplayable for me, and I'm sure other people as well. This is my opinion, sorry if it offends you, but that is what forums are for, opinions.

And you still can't accept it that most of errors you encounter have their origin not in the mod but in game/warlords/2.13 version ?
Why do you choose the easiest way - blame the mod?
 
For those who find that MAF problem makes the mod unplayable, I think they better do what I do. I simply avoid the world map scenario for now. It is a pity for sure it is quite fun but I still can enjoy the mod very much on standard, or large random maps.

We all know that the MAF problem is not the fault of modders. They might try to have workarounds but in the end if you want to have the fun of playing a rich mod you need to live with it and try any working trick.

Hopefully when TR is ported to BTS the MAF problem would go away or at least become less intense. I also hope that when you guys work on porting the MOD you will try to keep python calls on the end of turns to the minimum. If this is accomplished I would be able to play the world map as well as many others.
 
After some testing I have to say that some new improvements are great, but something is worse than previous version. For example, in TR Gold, almost all Civs agreed to open borders now almost all refuse it. This means we lose the utility of such agreement. Second, as already said, Bronze Working comes too late as Monarchy (in real world Monarchy is the most ancient form of government). If you want to be a warmonger, AI cant resist your army but your finances collapses very early. With 10-12 cities, with research set to 0 you lose 30-40 gp/turn! And this looks unrealistic in my opinion. At the same time, cottages are moved later with Architecture and this doesnt allow to get gold until late in the game, and frankly speaking, if a player cant manage some wars the game is simply boring, just clicking the end turn. Last, I dont like pandemia system, you lose every turn some population points without anything to do, even when you've built all health facilities in your towns. Latest, religion spreads very slowly, sometime it tooks forever to have a new city with state religion, even when all are connected.
I thank you a lot for your work and efforts, but I prefer TR gold, more funny to play, managing your resources you can expand and conquer the world already in ancient times, here almost not.
 
After some testing I have to say that some new improvements are great, but something is worse than previous version. For example, in TR Gold, almost all Civs agreed to open borders now almost all refuse it. This means we lose the utility of such agreement. Second, as already said, Bronze Working comes too late as Monarchy (in real world Monarchy is the most ancient form of government). If you want to be a warmonger, AI cant resist your army but your finances collapses very early. With 10-12 cities, with research set to 0 you lose 30-40 gp/turn! And this looks unrealistic in my opinion. At the same time, cottages are moved later with Architecture and this doesnt allow to get gold until late in the game, and frankly speaking, if a player cant manage some wars the game is simply boring, just clicking the end turn. Last, I dont like pandemia system, you lose every turn some population points without anything to do, even when you've built all health facilities in your towns. Latest, religion spreads very slowly, sometime it tooks forever to have a new city with state religion, even when all are connected.
I thank you a lot for your work and efforts, but I prefer TR gold, more funny to play, managing your resources you can expand and conquer the world already in ancient times, here almost not.

Opened borders are intentional. Think when was the 1st time Spanish people visited Chaina ? In BC after dicovering writing, or once tribes/kingdoms on their way have agreed not to attack their explorers ?

Architecture comes quete early in game. Its the player (you) that chooses to get it late, and you have to pay for it. My tech route is usually fishing, Toolmaking, woodworking, metal lore, stonecutting, sailing, agriculture and than going for architecture, and i never find my self low on gold both on World Map and custom maps. As for having 10-12 cities in early games you complaina bout having no cash. Persian empire and Roman were only onces that could get this big and maintain its glory for a time. Other "epire" usually collapsed before they grew. Yours is one of them.

Wargromer and AI. We allways had problems with AI. They were too weak, too stupid, than making too big stacks of units (83 on one square to attack and 44 in capitol garrison), where 3 or 4 units of that stack attacked, rest "prtected" attackers... Also large number of units made game unplatyable (long waiting time betwean turns, early MAFs). This is best we figured out.
And a thing to you. Wargromer =/= conqueror. Wargromer rather pillages and razes things and get $ for that, rather than spreads its borders.

Clicking end turn - that is big question what to do. I was asking Team to lower cost of early buildings and make their bonuses lower, but its still end turn till you finish them. On worldmap with very crowded europe there is no space to expore so you cant do it. what to do with it ? Leave it as it is, as we havent thought of anything better, nor anyone enlighted us.

Slow religion spread is intentional. Look at dates.
Zoroastrianism was founded... who knows. Cyrus has made the Persian empire arround 600 or 500 bc (cant remember the centuary doh) and its "state religion" was Zoroastrian (free religion actually). And Zoroastrianism did not existed outside Persia, sure some merchants or other faithfull left Persia looking for "better" life and were spreading it along way, but it wasnt successfull. Thats why Zoro has slow spread rate, low missionary number and high cost of them.
Judaism for 2. It was spread in Palistina, Lebanon, Assyria, Antioch and some other mid-east regions. Egypt didnt want to accept it, but it was existant there, but not by spread or missionaries, but by slaves that were Jewls.
Hinduism also hasnt left India much, or atleast in foreign lands it werent influencive enough to be considered as state religion. (in TR it spread is slow, but barable)
Buddism is 1st religion that has spread fast. Why ? Maybe becouse it was easy to accept. It had no god, so there is not "pray or die infidel". But the fact is that it has spread in India, China, Korea, Japan and even to mid-east, but that land allready belonged to Zoroastrianism and Judaism.
Christianity spreads more by Missionaries, than by it self (Jesus Christ, if not him, Christianity not only would not exist, but would not leave Jerusolem, Poland adopted Christiany thanks to Czech missionaries)
And for the end, werent you annoyed that in 1000bc half of the World was Hindu ? and once in 100bc Christianity was founded, Europe, Asia and half of Africa (other half of Africa was barbarian) was hindu ?
 
About religions and their spreading, in my games, still only one or two religions "conquer" the world.
In my game at huge pangea, in 1700 D.C., 8 players are hindu, 1 Christian and one Zoroatrist. The problem is not only the speed of diffusion, but that more than a religion has been discovered by one single player.
Spiritual player should discovers one religion and use that, and not discovers two religions, use only one of that and loose the other that becames unplayable.
Other thing is that AI should use missionaries, but often I found an AI player with a state religion and in late time some cities without any religion.
Changing this things, I think to see a world more variegated than now, with all the religions and a diplomacy very different.
I think also that religion is too strong to influence diplomacy, it is one of the principal cause of war and so it's very hard to diffuse a religion in late time, even because now AI don't give you open borders.
In BTS, with Apostolich palace, this problem is still bigger!!

Three things to ask, one of this I wrote some post before.

Why I can see apponement assassins in my map even if I haven't any of mine near?

I adore this mod, so I would like to know what do you think about this things:

Why when I conquer a city even in 1600..I have to rebuild all, even well? It Is not possible to conquer a city withou raze all the buildings? And why I have to build always Palissades to build Wall? I can build a wall of stone in 1200 without a wood one?

And It's possible to make too old some units? When you have infantry, I have in city a too big list of units..with also swordman..It's possible to hide oldest units as you have done with buildings?

Thank to all :goodjob:
 
Guys,

All you said is very interesting and is going right into our actual knowledge about what need to changed, upgraded,....

I give you there a short lists of the bugs and problems we already know and that will be "studied".
- tech tree: it seems to slower when reaching middle age and later eras. (Currently working on this personnaly ;) )
- Happiness and health ressources: too much of the first, not enough of the second. (chatting among ourselves to find the best solution, as moving back to the older system.)
- Religions: spreading problems, HS money income,.... (One of our wish to have religions working in a realitic way).
- Units: BW and units linked to are last for a too long time and need some tuning.
- Pandemia: values need to be adjusted (already done at home for us ;) ).
- Civics: we didn't implemented them by lack of time. They are probably an answer to most of the problems dealing with research, gold,....and army upkeep.

As you can read, there is still a lot of stuff to do to stabilize the mod. As i have already said, most of us are in holidays at that time - until around the middle of september. We will look at that asap.

And please, never forget that we have made this mod on our private time. We can't go as faster as everybody (us included) hope.

MAFs: For the last time, i repeat that MAFs aren't linked to our mod but to civ4. Warlords creates MAFs.... As you, i hope that BtS is "better" than Warlords and will solve this problem.

Nevertheless, in the name of the Team, thanks for your feedbacks and comments. Mixed with our own tests, we have a better vision on what failed, what need to be adjusted, etc.
Thx. :goodjob:

Hian the Frog.
 
Thx for the answer..an for all this work.
I know that you work on this mod in your free time and that our only help is to test it and suggest you how to improve it.
Your list is very very interesting, I would like to know more, if you can tell me, even in the future, about how you want to change that things.
Good Holidays at all!
 
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