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Modern Day Communism Boils Away Oppression

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cheezy the Wiz, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    Eh. Nobody cuts America any slack for being behind the times, perhaps rightly so. I have to admit that a lot of things here make me embarrassed in front of the Europeans, which partly drives me to want to change them and partly to give up and leave. Why should we show any mercy, especially to a country that has such ill will towards Americans?
     
  2. Mechanicalsalvation

    Mechanicalsalvation -

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    So what is the difference between the old days communism and the modern day version?
     
  3. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    Most things America is behind the times on we are more than a handful of years behind. If anyone were able to speak from a position of decades of solid progress on the issue it would be different, but I doubt there is any country on earth where gay rights were not in a poorer state than they are now in Russia just within my lifetime, or even in my kids' lifetime.

    Treated like second class citizens, might get fired for it, might get assaulted by right wing thugs, discriminated against by law enforcement...somebody who can honestly say that stopped twenty years ago or more in your own country please pipe on up. I can't because I wouldn't say we are really a hundred percent on that today.
     
  4. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    Curious for your take. Which ones?
     
  5. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Because it's trendy now. Big bad Russia theme must be kept alive and topics about Chechnya, freedom of press and Putin-dictator are somewhat exhausted.
     
  6. Mechanicalsalvation

    Mechanicalsalvation -

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    O.K. I just noticed the twin thread on liberalism so this is in fact thread about russian gays now, right?
     
  7. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    Access to health care and basic life necessities is archaic compared to a lot of the rest of the world. Our economic dependence on defense spending to drive the economy is grotesque and the entire world knows it except us. Our inability to recognize the entire planet is a consumable resource and try to discipline ourselves seems horrifically weak compared to some (not all ) places. There may be some others that aren't on the tip of my tongue.
     
  8. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    Interesting. I'll go with you at least on the cross of iron.
     
  9. Daw

    Daw Emperor

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    Spoiler :
    Hmm... I checked Merriam Webster for discrimination in case I understand it wrongly, but no, I remember the definition quite correctly:
    That's not the case. All laws are applied equally to everyone.
    Well... the difference is recognized, quality is another matter much depending on particular feature in question. I readily agree for instance, that gays are sometimes more gifted in creativity then straights.
    The difference, again, is recognized.

    So, yes, gays are discriminated meaning that they are distinguished from straights as having a different sexual orientation. But similarly, straights are discriminated too meaning they are distinguished from gays as having a different sexual orientation. What's bad in that?

    Ok, they have won then, because that's achieved.


    Heterosexuals also can't marry whomever they want.

    First, they can't marry people younger than 16.
    Second, they can't marry if they are already married.
    Third, they can't marry if their beloved is already married.
    Fourth, they can't marry their close relatives (like parents, grandparents, children, grandchildren, siblings, nephews and nieces, aunts and uncles, not sure about cousins - probably also not).

    All these restrictions are effective no matter how people are attracted to each other. And they don't want to marry to whom they're not attracted to, they are left alone with that personal problem of theirs...

    Good you've agreed. So, there are always other reasons.

    Well, from what I've seen, the guy was fired not for his sexuality but for bringing it up in a TV show, which was supposed to be about something else. It's like being banned from a forum for off-topic (which we are risking right now).

    Accepted. Can I compare it to face control? Like you can't go to modeling if you're too ugly or something?

    There are certain prerequisites in most of the jobs. People who don't meet (or stop meeting) the prerequisites can't have the job. But it neither means they can't have any other job, nor it means they are necessarily discriminated.

    After all being home-based self-employed is always an option.

    But the Article 127.2 does not say a thing about gays. It says that "individuals, not being married, cannot jointly adopt a child as a couple".

    This means that it:
    a) equally goes to any two individuals regardless of their sexual orientation,
    b) does not prohibit an individual from adopting a child individually - also regardless of their sexual orientation.

    If it makes it easier for you, my wife and I also can't jointly adopt children as a couple because we're not married officially. We just live together as husband and wife for 6 years already.

    But there is inequality. Single males have been statistically proved to constitute increased risk of sexual and abuse and physical violence for adopted children. So they are the last to be chosen.

    Yes, and what I am trying to say is that it is not about gays, it's about law enforcement system failure.

    Well, if heterosexuals give their sexuality too much rope they also have to deal with people who are uneasy about that. Give someone too much attention and get ready for harassment accusations. :dunno:

    Still don't think they are. I know a few gays, one is a department manager, another is a logistic specialist (they work for the same company and have an affair, and everybody knows but people don't really care). Yet another one works for a courier company and brings mail, also a fine guy to say "hello" to.

    However, I once was attempted to be hooked up by a gay in a bar. Now THAT was ANNOYING... but educating: I had a unique experience of standing fast (and also remain polite which was my personal challenge) against the whole arsenal men usually use on women :lol:

    I see. But this law has 2 major points to consider:

    First, it minds minors. With standard 18+ age limit for sexual content, minors are not supposed to know a single thing about any sex at all. Homosexuality goes as integral part of that.
    Second, it is about propaganda defined as active distribution of information. You still can answer questions if you're asked, but you can't go out on an awareness campaign.

    No, I'm not the one who brought it up mentioning LGBT and their supposed problems.
    Yes, you're absolutely free to have any religion you want, but you do have to want Christianity first if want to be officially baptized or receive the sacraments.

    Yes, you're absolutely free to have whatever political ideology you want, but if you want to officially join a party, you do have to first want the official one of that party.

    Because we're talking here about the official formal marriage, not about having sex with someone.

    Really? I'm not an expert in donkey farting, but if you say so... it must be quite convincing, especially if you're left in a locked room with it. ;)
    ^^ Off topic
     
  10. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    Homophobia surely is not a Russian invention. But to outright encourage homophobia was taboo already 20 years ago in Germany.
    It also hasn't been 100 years that women's suffrage became political reality. Still nowadays it is an outrageous thought that it could be any different. Equal rights in other avenues is even a lot more recent. Still it is unthinkable nowadays that it could be any different.
    When a wrong is clearly established and of grave quality - I don't see what it matters how long this has been established. This isn't or shouldn't be about being better but about what is right.
    Homophobia is just so ridiculous and such a burden for homosexuals - it is one of those rare cases where good and bad still shines in clear white and black.
     
  11. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    I'm pretty confident you're not doing your case much good with this.

    To justify a ban on homosexual marriage you have to come up with a reason why they shouldn't marry each other. You're not really addressing that at all.

    That's the reason it's becoming legal in various countries round the world: there simply is no reason to ban it. It cannot conceivably do anyone any harm.
     
  12. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    So First) a prohibition based on children and what age is appropriate to give consent, I can roll with you here. 16 might be a little young, but it's not obviously terrible. So that's ok.

    Second) a wrongness

    Third) a wrongness

    Fourth) a wrongness

    I like your argument, but precisely because it isn't an argument in support of prohibitions on same sex marriages. It's an argument very much in favor of rectifying even more errors.
     
  13. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    If an implication here is that Russian government is outright encouraging homophobia, this is not correct.
     
  14. useless

    useless Social Justice Rogue

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    You'll need to remind us of the Russian government's amazing track record with LGBT equality and friendliness.
     
  15. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    Then it seems you are the only that didn't misunderstand the government. They really need to work on their communication skills.
     
  16. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    Maybe Germany is way ahead of the rest of us. I would never have guessed that. I'm also not sure exactly where 'outright encouraging homophobia' entered the evidence pool, because I don't follow things closely enough to see Russia encouraging homophobia. I do see them doing less to protect their citizens against it than you imply Germany is doing...even less than the US is doing (maybe)...but I don't see much encouragement of homophobia going on anywhere. I think the Russian government would prefer the whole issue just go away...a 'solution' that we in the USA called 'don't ask don't tell' which is still being applied.
     
  17. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_LGBT_propaganda_law

     
  18. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you start handing out 'benefits of the gay lifestyle' pamphlets on a school campus in the US your life will be in your hands...today. That law doesn't put them ten years behind the times. It doesn't put them ten minutes behind the times.
     
  19. Mechanicalsalvation

    Mechanicalsalvation -

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    I bet we can find like 50 countries where gay situation is absurdly bad but Russia gets the bad boy credit...
    This is one of the staunchest ally of the so-called democratic world:
     
  20. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    It is ahead of the USA, I think so yes. And so are other European nations.
    For reference, the current major of our capital is gay, the previous second head of government and leader of a coalition party was gay.
     

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