Mohammed - Prophet of Peace

[landlubber]

Also, I'd like to point out that it is very much against Islamic doctrine to make hate against Christians like that, and that those Muslims really don't represent the Muslim community as a whole.
And, no, I'm not Muslim, but I know many Muslims and have asked them questions like this.

 

[kramerfan86]

People who judge islam harshly vs christianity tend to forget how bat crazy insane christianity was during the mid millennium. Oh sure it has calmed down now, but the crusades were the jihad of their time and the taliban pretty much had a christian equivalent in charge of every european nation with equally horrible punishments and unlike islam today where it is a minority who act crazy back then the wide majority of Christianity supported the madness.

 

[plarq]

Also, I'd like to point out that it is very much against Islamic doctrine to make hate against Christians like that, and that those Muslims really don't represent the Muslim community as a whole.
And, no, I'm not Muslim, but I know many Muslims and have asked them questions like this.

"Only theoretically". In practice, an Islamic government could be very lenient to Christians, or very harsh, even at the same time!

Well, hating Christians is not a universal trait of Islam, of course, but the creation of Israel in 1948 created all the "Hate Christians, Hate Jews" mentality among Muslim communities.

 

[Thedrin]

Classical Hero, if you randomly selected a person from the set of all people who both worship the Abrahamic god and believe that Jesus was his son, I suspect it is highly unlikely that that person would be Jewish or Muslim.

 

[Aroddo]

Jews dont think their God has sent a son down yet either, guess that silly Torah God isnt the same God either.

Considering that Jesus was a jew, your comment served no point other than provocation.

"Only theoretically". In practice, an Islamic government could be very lenient to Christians, or very harsh, even at the same time!

Well, hating Christians is not a universal trait of Islam, of course, but the creation of Israel in 1948 created all the "Hate Christians, Hate Jews" mentality among Muslim communities.

And the 60 years following the occupation didn't much help in creating friendship and harmony either. Although to be fair, the current driving force behind the Israeli unconciliatory politics are a small group of ultra orthodox jews, whose customs and world views make them indistinguishable from even the most radical jihadists.

He thought he was the son of God. Doesn't that qualify?

But with this proliferation of Christian sects, the term Christian is beginning to lose it's meaning. Calling Mormons Christians; That's stretching it.

Actually there is no evidence that Jesus ever claimed he is the son of god. It's most likely that the church hyped up his importance by adding that detail to his curriculum vitae. And besides, there's no way to find out what Jesus "thought", only what he said.

 

[kramerfan86]

Considering that Jesus was a jew, your comment served no point other than provocation.

Hardly, merely pointing out the hypocrisy many christians have where the Jewish differences from Christianity are forgivable and still make them a brother religion but incredibly similar differences in Islam are horrific and make them some weird alien religion. Jews bluntly believe Jesus is not the son of God, just like muslims (whose religion at the very least acknowledges him as an important religious figure unlike Judaism). Jews believe God has not sent a son to Earth, just like muslims. Yet the person I was responding to claims the muslim version of these differences means the God they worship isnt the same person.

 

[Winner]

People who judge islam harshly vs christianity tend to forget how bat crazy insane christianity was during the mid millennium. Oh sure it has calmed down now, but the crusades were the jihad of their time and the taliban pretty much had a christian equivalent in charge of every european nation with equally horrible punishments and unlike islam today where it is a minority who act crazy back then the wide majority of Christianity supported the madness.

Wait, so...

... the early Islamic expansion in the 7th-9th centuries which was done almost *entirely* through conquest of non-Islamic cultures - the Eastern Christians under the Roman Empire, the Zoroastrians in Persia, the Western Christians in Iberia and France - wasn't "crazy insane" and violent, but the relatively limited Christian counter-invasions a couple hundred years later (the Crusades and later the Reconquista) were?

You have it pretty much backwards, friend. If we were to compare Christianity and Islam *purely* in terms of how they expanded before they settled down, I'd say early Islam was far more militaristic, aggressive, and violent than early Christianity. The causes of that are of course debatable.

 

[plarq]

Hardly, merely pointing out the hypocrisy many christians have where the Jewish differences from Christianity are forgivable and still make them a brother religion but incredibly similar differences in Islam are horrific and make them some weird alien religion. Jews bluntly believe Jesus is not the son of God, just like muslims (whose religion at the very least acknowledges him as an important religious figure unlike Judaism). Jews believe God has not sent a son to Earth, just like muslims. Yet the person I was responding to claims the muslim version of these differences means the God they worship isnt the same person.

That way we bring out 'pro-Jewish" Christianity and "anti-Jewish" Christianity. To be frank, historically Christians (Catholics, Orthodox, Protestant) have numerous anti-Jewish surges. It is the modern (Post-WWII) United States right-wing conservative Christianity groups that are ardently pro-Israel, thus pro-Jewish.

Although to be fair, the current driving force behind the Israeli unconciliatory politics are a small group of ultra orthodox jews, whose customs and world views make them indistinguishable from even the most radical jihadists.

Not only orthodox Jews, the secular Jews are major drive of Israeli politics. They want "living spaces" by occupation of Palestine lands.

 

[kramerfan86]

Wait, so...

... the early Islamic expansion in the 7th-9th centuries which was done almost *entirely* through conquest of non-Islamic cultures - the Eastern Christians under the Roman Empire, the Zoroastrians in Persia, the Western Christians in Iberia and France - wasn't "crazy insane" and violent, but the relatively limited Christian counter-invasions a couple hundred years later (the Crusades and later the Reconquista) were?

You have it pretty much backwards, friend. If we were to compare Christianity and Islam *purely* in terms of how they expanded before they settled down, I'd say early Islam was far more militaristic, aggressive, and violent than early Christianity. The causes of that are of course debatable.

What exactly is your point? Where did I suggest Islam was more peaceful than Christianity? Im just pointing out Christians who lament how violent islam ignore the hundreds of years Christianity acted nearly as violently as modern day extremists do. You cant justify the crusades or torture that was done by christians back then by pointing out islam did it too.

That way we bring out 'pro-Jewish" Christianity and "anti-Jewish" Christianity. To be frank, historically Christians (Catholics, Orthodox, Protestant) have numerous anti-Jewish surges. It is the modern (Post-WWII) United States right-wing conservative Christianity groups that are ardently pro-Israel, thus pro-Jewish.

True, but it still doesnt really justify holding up islam to some weird higher standard of similarity while bluntly ignoring the differences with Judiasm and practically acting like they are just Christians astray to a degree. Practically they should acknowledge all three are different directions of worship from the same base and God. The point isnt "you should treat Jews worse" as it is "islam should be treated better".

 

[wolfigor]

an interesting comparison can be found here. The title of the web-site matches the OP
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Jesus-Muhammad.htm

 

[Tycho Brahe]

Some muslims are violent, some are peacefull. It doesn't matter what kind of profet Mohammed was, or if muslims revere jesus or not. What matters is how modern muslims act. Some act like bloodthirsty maniacs, some act like peacefull law abiding citizens. Just like christians, hindus and atheists. People should be judged on their own individual actions, not on their religion or lack of religion.

 

[landlubber]

an interesting comparison can be found here. The title of the web-site matches the OP
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Jesus-Muhammad.htm

You honestly think that I'm going to trust a website whose home page reads "Islam: One Messed Up Religion"? No. I'm not. That kind of bias and hatred is exactly what the OP is going against.

 

[Lillefix]

People should be judged on their own individual actions, not on their religion or lack of religion.

When people claim they do something specifically because of their religion, it's difficult not to consider the religion as well as the individual.

 

[Aroddo]

Hardly, merely pointing out the hypocrisy many christians have where the Jewish differences from Christianity are forgivable and still make them a brother religion but incredibly similar differences in Islam are horrific and make them some weird alien religion. Jews bluntly believe Jesus is not the son of God, just like muslims (whose religion at the very least acknowledges him as an important religious figure unlike Judaism). Jews believe God has not sent a son to Earth, just like muslims. Yet the person I was responding to claims the muslim version of these differences means the God they worship isnt the same person.

Oh, then I misunderstood, sorry.
I also have the impression that Christianity has more in common with Islam than with Judaism.

 

[El_Machinae]

He proved he was the Son of God by his actions. How many peope do you know who have died to rise again?

The Dali Lama?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

And Big Vern from Viz comic.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yes. That's what the religions have in common; they were all founded by maniacs.

I don't know how strongly you could actually make that case. Even as an atheist, I'd say that that Jesus and Muhammad were basically legitimate religious philosophers, however heterodox they may have been in some respects.

Wait, so...

... the early Islamic expansion in the 7th-9th centuries which was done almost *entirely* through conquest of non-Islamic cultures - the Eastern Christians under the Roman Empire, the Zoroastrians in Persia, the Western Christians in Iberia and France - wasn't "crazy insane" and violent, but the relatively limited Christian counter-invasions a couple hundred years later (the Crusades and later the Reconquista) were?

You have it pretty much backwards, friend. If we were to compare Christianity and Islam *purely* in terms of how they expanded before they settled down, I'd say early Islam was far more militaristic, aggressive, and violent than early Christianity. The causes of that are of course debatable.

When did Christianity ever "settle down"? They were still spreading the cross with fire and sword well into the 19th century, which isn't what I would call pacific, exactly.

 

[Aroddo]

an interesting comparison can be found here. The title of the web-site matches the OP
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Jesus-Muhammad.htm

Your site is merely hateful propaganda. I suggest you view the video in the original post.
It was made way before the US-government saw a need to vilify everthing muslim, so it's a bit detached from present day warmongering.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Some muslims are violent, some are peacefull. It doesn't matter what kind of profet Mohammed was, or if muslims revere jesus or not. What matters is how modern muslims act. Some act like bloodthirsty maniacs, some act like peacefull law abiding citizens. Just like christians, hindus and atheists. People should be judged on their own individual actions, not on their religion or lack of religion.

So, you're practically saying that cultural influences in upbringing and beliefsystem don't affect individuals in a population in general?! Why could you else not discuss tendencies in followers of different religions?

 

[Traitorfish]

So, you're practically saying that cultural influences in upbringing and beliefsystem don't affect individuals in a population in general?!

No he isn't. He's saying that you can't assume, in an anti-empirical manner, that certain cultural influences exist, or that they will produce certain results. He's saying that Muslims should be judged on the basis of how they actually act, not on the desperate basis of "Muslims are violent because Islam is violent because Muslims are violent because Islam is violent..."