Most powerful strat

[Nefelia]

I prefer Dwarven Druids (Crush x 4) and a nice stack of Chariots. Much less complicated, less units involved, and quicker to get to if you can trade for those Recon techs.

Unfortunately I've had to do my own research for Recon techs in .31, with the Elves now being to . .. .. .. .ing stupid to build cottages on their trees.

Downside to this strat? Only works with Dwarves.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Here's the thing: You don't need someone else with Chalid. Just get Law III and the Host Summon, and he's a pretty solid one man army. Crown them for damage on one turn, summon hosts while the crown lingers, kill guys to extend duration...

If you play a Summoner, ( I rather like Keelyn, since it gives you an early game Loki strategy) Than the hosts will likely last for the entire duration of the war. Remember they are 'refreshed' by killing workers too, not just military units.

 

[Ecofarm]

Here's the thing: You don't need someone else with Chalid. Just get Law III and the Host Summon, and he's a pretty solid one man army. Crown them for damage on one turn, summon hosts while the crown lingers, kill guys to extend duration...

If you play a Summoner, ( I rather like Keelyn, since it gives you an early game Loki strategy) Than the hosts will likely last for the entire duration of the war. Remember they are 'refreshed' by killing workers too, not just military units.

Does the host kill 8 units like Alaz?

Blitz + blitzing illusion

For the low-low cost of poisons (bring a few extra assassins, to get kills on 100% cities up towards 15/turn). This also frees Chalid to get command 3, city raider 1, and combat promotions.

 

[Ecofarm]

I prefer Dwarven Druids (Crush x 4) and a nice stack of Chariots. Much less complicated, less units involved, and quicker to get to if you can trade for those Recon techs.

Unfortunately I've had to do my own research for Recon techs in .31, with the Elves now being to . .. .. .. .ing stupid to build cottages on their trees.

Downside to this strat? Only works with Dwarves.

---
Dwarven druids is a top5 strat. With svalt empyr (with or without the diversion to fol), bals druids, and amurite.

EDIT: Bah, should have been same post.

Quoted For Truth. There are far earlier and easier ways to own the AI. There is no way this strategy is viable in multiplayer unless you are playing against completely incompetent adversaries in which case you don't need a good strategy anyway. Therefore, this strategy isn't worth that much. Sure you can do it, but whats the point?

Ok, potatoOverdose, of 50 posts. Join hamachi network or contact via #erebus, and we can see if you can destroy this strat when I defend with hunters and charm. If I get to poisons, your done. Chalid just makes it easy.

I play mostly MP, and find warrior/axemen/horsemen rushes as n00bish and rejectable as in bts. I bet my "incompetant" adversaries mop the floor with you as well.

well any strategy is feasible with certain specific map conditions enabled. But who would honestly play a multiplayer game with settings to favor a few civs or strategies when there is the regular start that is significantly more balanced? I mean, you don't see many multiplayer games pitting doviello versus lanun on an archipelago map, do you? By the same token, why would anyone alter initial starting conditions to favor an opponent heavily?

This strat pwns MP no options. You are not pillaging my forest cottages with fawns or hunters etc around.

Besides, alot of people play SP (not like I've seen you on hamachi or #erebus) and axe rushing in SP is pathetic. You can do that in BTS, as someone noted above. No special settings are required. I play it SP deity "play now" and MP any or no options. I don't suppose potato has a deity small pangea 'play now' win he would like to post? Or a strat to share? Or commentary except saying the strat doesn't work MP or needs special settings (both total BS and you know it)? You completely invent this crap about it not working in MP and needing special settings, and that's it? That's all you have to contribute to this thread? Thanks.

How about you bring it (with something other than dov, clan, or hippus if you know a strat beyond warrior rush)?

Enough talk!

 

[Ecofarm]

At it's core, the strat = empy -> poisons (alaz) -> law (chalid) -> military (blitz)

With 6 possible distractions, depending on needs (such as defense, terraforming, etc).

1) FoL
a) Ancient forests
b) Fawns
c) Priesthood for terraforming or destroy undead.
d) Only if you need c) or have happy resources to support increased population right now (as in at the start of the game).

2) Ether -> Sorcery
a) Charm, Inspiration
b) Treetop Defense, Poisoned Blade
c) Blur, Shadowwalk
d) take city that founded empyr

3) Animal Handling
a) A big upgrade from hunters to rangers for defense

4) Construction (rathas)

5) Sanitation
a) Baths
b) Aquaducts

6) Drama
a) theater
b) culture slider

Perform a distraction only when circumstances request. After completing the strat (and necessary distractions) and having reagents or trade possible for them, get air 3 arches.

NOTE: There is an option for late game besides archs (should one be lacking the possibility of reagents). Instead of elementalism and sorcery, get animal mastery then precision for marksmen beastmasters.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

---
Dwarven druids is a top5 strat. With svalt empyr (with or without the diversion to fol), bals druids, and amurite.

EDIT: Bah, should have been same post.

Ok, potatoOverdose, of 50 posts. Join hamachi network or contact via #erebus, and we can see if you can destroy this strat when I defend with hunters and charm. If I get to poisons, your done. Chalid just makes it easy.

I play mostly MP, and find warrior/axemen/horsemen rushes as n00bish and rejectable as in bts. I bet my "incompetant" adversaries mop the floor with you as well.


This strat pwns MP no options. You are not pillaging my forest cottages with fawns or hunters etc around.

Besides, alot of people play SP (not like I've seen you on hamachi or #erebus) and axe rushing in SP is pathetic. You can do that in BTS, as someone noted above. No special settings are required. I play it SP deity "play now" and MP any or no options. I don't suppose potato has a deity small pangea 'play now' win he would like to post? Or a strat to share? Or commentary except saying the strat doesn't work MP or needs special settings (both total BS and you know it)? You completely invent this crap about it not working in MP and needing special settings, and that's it? That's all you have to contribute to this thread? Thanks.

How about you bring it (with something other than dov, clan, or hippus if you know a strat beyond warrior rush)?

Enough talk!

First, I will be more civil and ignore your poor grammar and insolent tone. Second, post quantity means nothing, as you are living proof. Third, your "strategy" is nothing more than "build good hero." Incidentally, this "strategy" is present in the fall from heaven readme, and pretty much every general summary of the mod. Yes Chalid is a solid hero. Yes Alazkan is a solid hero. Add them together, throw in some summons/units and *gasp* you have your run of the mill standard army that everyone builds in some form or another.

Incidentally, "play now" (which you referenced repeatedly) gimps the AI (what there is of it) because it does not have "no building requirements" enabled. So your "SP deity play now" doesn't say much. (BTW: I play on deity, no building reqs, agressive ai, on maps where you can't win via early military conquest)

By the way, your charm/fawn strategy is worthless. You know why? Catapults. Golems. Fire Spitting golems. *Pyre Zombies* (immune to charm, burn your precious forest, collateral damage). All available before you can complete chalid and alazkan (well you might finish alazkan before fire spitting golems), But honestly golems and catapults will own you beforehand. Essentially, relying on charm for defense is pathetic and worthless. Also, what happens when you aren't the first to found FoL? Oooo didn't think of that one....

Essentially, you proved my point: You play against players that either:
a) don't compete with you for early religions
b) don't know how to counter charm
c) don't know how to use seige units (yes this does fall under (b) somewhat but honestly all the enemy needs to do is bring a few cats if you're using charm (which now has a +40 to resist on it) to say nothing of golems or pyre zombies or the like.

As for my mp experience, I play LAN. Clearly my LAN opponents are more competent then whomever you play against because if a charm defense strategy works against them, especially after the latest patch....wow...just wow.Not to mention the fact that the people you play against let you get FoL and fawns every time? Geeze.

So to sum up:
"when I defend with hunters and charm"
-Pyre Zombies. Or any of the other units I mentioned, but Pyre Zombies in particular will dominate your "strat".
-Charm=+40 resist
-Relying on successfully being able to get FoL every time indicates that you are either (a) gimping the AI in single player via "play now" or (b) playing against human opponents that don't beeline religion.

And I am sorry for having to reply in a correspondingly insolent tone, but your arrogant and snide comments warrant it. However, I am pleased to say that I refrained from any direct insults; unfortunately you cannot say the same.

 

[Ecofarm]

By the way, your charm/fawn strategy is worthless. You know why? Catapults. Golems. Fire Spitting golems. *Pyre Zombies* (immune to charm, burn your precious forest, collateral damage). All available before you can complete chalid and alazkan (well you might finish alazkan before fire spitting golems), But honestly golems and catapults will own you beforehand. Essentially, relying on charm for defense is pathetic and worthless. Also, what happens when you aren't the first to found FoL? Oooo didn't think of that one....

All of those things are not early, and civ specific. Each can be countered. If you can have catapults, I can have assassins. Assassins kill all cats before they get near the city. Pyre Zombies? Priests destroy undead. I just get the tech I need to counter what you will have. And let's not forget, you are talking about 1 move units attacking in quick game speed. Hah! Golems and catapults, moving one and being eaten alive by assassins, aren't owning anything. After my assassins kill your catapults and adepts, your golems are dead meat. Seriously, this verbal pissing contest is pointless. Anyone can come up with any various scenarios to counter and counter-counter and counter-counter-counter. Not impressed, and not continuing that silliness.

In summary: No, I am not relying on charm. I am relying on any combination necessary of: charm, hunters, treetop defense, blur, assassins, priests, etc.

1) You don't need FoL. Did you not see the post above yours? If you are just going to ignore the discussion and spout crap againt svalt empyr, go away.

2) Even if you don't found FoL, you get the religion. Ooooo didn't think of that one?

3) Empyr is the problem. You pretty much have to beeline it (sometimes FoL first), then get poisons, then law. Any other parts of the strat are optional.

Again, you are welcome to join us for MP anytime, despite:

First, I will be more civil and ignore your poor grammar and insolent tone.

Spare me the grammar nazi crap.

 

[Ekolite]

This sounds like a very cool strat Ecofarm. Will definately try it out next time I get a chance to play FFH. It looks pretty strong and very original. Empy with svartalfar would never have occured to me for being a decent strategy. It even covers all likely counter attacks, like you said, golems and pyre zombies are hardly the end of the world and both are civ specific. Also, like you said, after you pick off the dwarven adepts the golems would literally be helpless.

Also, adopting empyrean gives you the diplomatic advantage of becoming neutral, although that's pretty minor and could easilly be done earlier using RoK.

BTW, not interupting something am I?

 

[Ecofarm]

I'm not sure how original it is, as most strats boil down to a civ + religion synergy. I just think it is the most powerful synergy of civ, traits, and religion.

1 problem: Alaz dies. He defends alot and will die before your mages and sometimes even before hunters or rangers. Protect him with 3 hunters and later 3 rangers. Not 2, never 1. This is partially because of promotion: flanking, mobility 2, drill 4, blitz, then str. The code over-estimates drill in computing combat odds. Giving the affect of drill a 50% impact, in using average results to compute combat odds, does not cut it for a unit you only want hitting at (98?, rarely) 99% plus. Drill 4 heros are notorious for dying in defense. If he dies before you get to archs, your advance (without many assassins) slows to a crawl.

Since he is a civ hero, you can ressurect him with life 3 and a life node.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

All of those things are not early, and civ specific. Each can be countered. If you can have catapults, I can have assassins. Assassins kill all cats before they get near the city. Pyre Zombies? Priests destroy undead. I just get the tech I need to counter what you will have. And let's not forget, you are talking about 1 move units attacking in quick game speed. Hah! Golems and catapults, moving one and being eaten alive by assassins, aren't owning anything. After my assassins kill your catapults and adepts, your golems are dead meat. Seriously, this verbal pissing contest is pointless. Anyone can come up with any various scenarios to counter and counter-counter and counter-counter-counter. Not impressed, and not continuing that silliness.

In summary: No, I am not relying on charm. I am relying on any combination necessary of: charm, hunters, treetop defense, blur, assassins, priests, etc.

1) You don't need FoL. Did you not see the post above yours? If you are just going to ignore the discussion and spout crap againt svalt empyr, go away.

2) Even if you don't found FoL, you get the religion. Ooooo didn't think of that one?

3) Empyr is the problem. You pretty much have to beeline it (sometimes FoL first), then get poisons, then law. Any other parts of the strat are optional.

Again, you are welcome to join us for MP anytime, despite:



Spare me the grammar nazi crap.

First, let me correct some of the mistakes in your arguments:

"Pyre Zombies? Priests destroy undead." Slight problem there. Pyre zombies come around over 1975 before priests. Given early game research rates, that is very significant (easily significantly over 50 turns). So Pyre Zombies would still own your strategy.

"If you can have catapults, I can have assassins." Again, slight problem there; namely that catapults are 525 before assasins, or catapults and golems available 925 before assassins (via the Luchuirp world spell). Thus, there is a slight problem in fielding assassins to counter catapults and possibly golems (namely: your opponent would be able to field and mass catapults and/or golems before you are even able to build assassins).
By the way, assassins get reduced strength when fighting nonliving units due to their relying on poison damage...

" Empyr is the problem. You pretty much have to beeline it (sometimes FoL first), then get poisons, then law. Any other parts of the strat are optional." What? So you expect to field assassins to counter any of the plethora of units I listed after researching Honor? Ok...


The above quote illustrates my entire point across all of the posts that I and others have made. Specifically: Given enough time, your strategy will work. Against the AI (on any settings, really), just about anything works given enough time. In multiplayer, this strategy has far too many holes to be viable against an opponent that wants to eliminate you early on because of the lack of perspective for the first 100-150 turns, essentially. All of your strategies' components ("charm, hunters, treetop defense, blur, assassins, priests, etc.") come hundreds, sometimes thousands of after the most basic and standard military units available, many of which can annihilate your particular unit set/strategy via earlier more efficient wars.

I'm not saying your strategy can't work, If given enough time it will. Problems arise in an inadequate defense during the time when you can't field assassins and priests (I'm ignoring charm because, as I've shown there are any number of ways to counter it, to say nothing of the +40 resist it now possesses), and the opponent can field catapults, golems, pyre zombies, etc.

 

[Ekolite]

Why do you have to beline for Empyrean? When you research Honor don't you get a free disciple unit even if it's already been founded?

 

[Ecofarm]

I'm not saying your strategy can't work, If given enough time it will. Problems arise in an inadequate defense during the time when you can't field assassins and priests (I'm ignoring charm because, as I've shown there are any number of ways to counter it, to say nothing of the +40 resist it now possesses), and the opponent can field catapults, golems, pyre zombies, etc.

Ok, so ONLY an axe rush beats an axe rush. Whatever. There are ways to counter your unstoppable pyres and golems. Enough about them already. Start your own thread: "Pyre Zombies ftw: Return of the axe rush" call it a strat if you like.

Why do you have to beline for Empyrean? When you research Honor don't you get a free disciple unit even if it's already been founded?

You do not. I think you should, even if not for Esus. Few AI's go for it early, Sidar being one. Fewer players go for it early. When it comes to competing with players for religion, and stealing each other's, I think that is more talk than reality. When you sit down with 3-6 people for a game of ffh (2-4 hours), it's unlikely you will want to be racing for religions, or going out of your way to get someone else's before they do. Like someone is seriously going to tech a religion without synergy early (and make their own late) just to keep someone else from having the holy city?? Sure, empyr and esus deny the religion to other people, but how many people tech it just to deny it to someone else. I find grabbing FoL first (ancients for forest cottages) sometimes reduces the turns to honor (depending on happiness resources available, events, etc). Whether AI or player, if you lose the race to empyr you can take an Empy city with air2/fire2 (or some other supplement) and assassins before continuing to religious law after the diversion to sorcery (or other souce of city-taking ability). If they want to flat-out fight over who gets Chalid, well, sounds like fun. Of course, you could always cut your loses and head for commune and kith + yvain.

 

[Vehem]

EDIT: Move along, nothing to see...

 

[Roghar]

Never having played Empyrean before and hearing so much hype about Chalid I decided to give him go on the weekend, playing Malakim. This would never work very well in MP I don't think, but putting all mana I can find (plus Palace plus Dies Dei) into Sun makes him a one man killing band. Once promoted heavily enough he is near unstoppable. I have 9 sun mana now, he kills three of anything each turn (blitz, mobility), gaining 3 xp with Valour and a great Commander.

The spell options are so varied.. Summon Aurealis is stupendous for one big hit, or to defend the stack, with that much sun mana. Host obviousl powerful for whittling down big stacks. Crown, Pillar of Fire, heal... presumably in a MP game he'd be targetted and killed sooner or later, at which point I'd be in a heap of trouble, but in SP he is just churning through enemy cities single-handedly

 

[xienwolf]

Ought to get 6 XP with Valor AND a commander attached.

Should have set one Node to metamagic just long enough to get a Mage with Dispel, then change it back to Sun. That way you can keep the Mage safe and revert all your Nodes if Chalid dies and you want to shift Strategies.

 

[Roghar]

yes, you're right on both counts. I just can't bear to think of this game without him!

 

[Ecofarm]

yes, you're right on both counts. I just can't bear to think of this game without him!

With a blitzing Alaz, providing 8 kills per turn (with the illusion able to be left outside stack to die) he is simply too awesome. Throw in 2-3 regular assassins (to give you the guild and provide 3 more kills per turn) and it gets crazy. Plus archs summoning air and providing lightning by default, and it gets absurd.

NOT YET NOTED: Casting blind with 4 move units (ratha + mobility) or 2 move units (radiant + mobility) keeps cities pretty safe by slowing down armies via blind + return to city. AND they are upgradeable with city raider promotion from radiants (to go with later flanking 3 from ratha) so I like to have 2 with my attacking army (as additional deterance to counter attacks via blind [with charm] and CR + flanking for additional kills/weakenings for assassins to pick off later in the turn). With a couple mind 1 (charm) and a couple ratha or radiant (blind), an attacking stack or enemy defense is rendered immobile.

Don't bother with divination and sun nodes, just poisons (alaz + assassins) with religious law (crown and pillar). Only grab fol (before beelining empyr) if you have happy resources for the population; and embark on other distractions (see my post above) only as necessary (for example, get poison or priesthood first if golems/cats/adepts or Pyres are coming, respectively). You can get ether and adepts late, due to arcane trait and quick upgrade to mages for better passive xp gain, unless you need air2/fire2 mages to take a civ/city who beat you to empyr.

This strat is not a precise tech path to be followed in EVERY circumstance. It is a general idea (based on svalt hero + empyr hero) that is achievable if you only embark on the distractions necessary as per game conditions. Sometimes, I go empyr before hunting, if life is peaceful and I haven't the happy for ancient forest food. Of course this leaves various unexpected results: once, Perp won a domination victory (deity small pangea play-now) while I beelined empyr then heros without producing basic units for opposition to his world domination (since I figured I was safe with him attacking everyone). Sometimes, I grab Fol before Empy and sanitation before poison, if I can afford to stay on the "builder/growth" path for a time and hunters are sufficient and needed for defense (FoL being a natural extension of grabbing hunting for hunters). Sometimes, I get poisons or priesthood FIRST (after FoL for ancients/treants if priest) to stop a rush (assuming I have incense).

It is a very flexible strat. The techs/units are set, but the order of them is optional.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6735796&postcount=25

Side note: I usually get Alaz blitz natural (drill 4) and give ortho's axe to chalid, for an extra 3 (with mobility) command3 kills after the assassins have had their fun and flanking3+city raider rathas have further weakend the best defenders.

 

[Ecofarm]

From my last "most powerful strat" thread (Entitled, Girg Archmages):

I do hope you guys do not actually think any game mechanic will be changed for the convoluted rules of this multiplayer clan. Advanced start, unrestricted leaders, quick, refuse to attack till turn 100, no barbs...

You aren't really playing FfH. You are playing a CCG without shuffling your decks. The fact that you have it perfectly scripted out for precisely what you will do on each and every turn is ridiculous. TBS... It means TURN BASED STRATEGY. As in, you take turns, and use strategy. Also as in, you have to CHANGE your strategy EVERY TURN.

You want to counter Grigori Archmages easily? Play on Epic speed. Problem solved.


I do not mind seeing discussions about strategies for your wierd sect, but honestly... don't think the game will change to "balance" that aspect of the game. It works well as intended, they just happened to allow you to malform their creation drastically with some specific options.

That's funny, cause meteors were removed in .31

I think that elemental resistance/immunity should be fixed before the collateral damage type .

Fortunately, that was another bug found through reading this thread that does effect the normal game.

Similar possibilities? Is resistance fixed?

I actually tried it online and, yeah, it's worse than I thought. I did lose 2 of the 3 adventurer/archmages eventually to theLjosalfar world spell , but the damage was done - half of the opposing team just died.

Then I thought, you know, perhaps quick speed favours late strategies, so I went offline and tried it on epic speed. Result: it was worse. Even deity AI's didn't stand a chance, as long as I had scouts and saw those assassins, my meteors would blow up everything in my way. I conquered so quickly I had lots of empty enemy cities and not enough troops in my stack to hold them. Congratulations, you just broke the game.

I expect similar responses soon.

 

[Breunor]

Yes, I have always felt that Alazkan is kind of broken. I've used similar strategies, but I didn't calculate it with the precision of Ecofarm. Get Alazkan with a few promotions, multiple attacks, and he can be sick in the midgame.

The only problem I've had is getting swarmed where he is killed. It looks like Ecofarm here has taken the idea to a logical, more thought out path. I have to admit I haven't used him with Corlindale, but he can be a killer in a lot of set-ups. I though he was less powerful in the endgame, where his multiple attacks didn't mean as much fighting 13+ strength units, but he can pretty much win the game by himself and suitable supporting cast.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Slvynn]

yah Alazkan broken, need to be fixed. Overkill imho