My experience with game

[red_elk]

I would. Maybe not all the initiative, but I also don't want to always be the one initiating contact, suggesting stuff, or taking control (including sex). Sometimes, it's nice to kick back and let other people do stuff. Luckily, many women I have met can get stuff done by themselves, so they don't have the inherent need to have a man, and that's actually great because if you get together and date, that means you are not fulfilling some kind of "i need a husband" role, but are actually a person who genuinely interests her.

I was once in a situation when woman I know asked me out, but I didn't like her and had to refuse. That was very awkward, because of this "reversed gender roles" situation. Most likely that was very awkward for her too. So, while I understand your position, I still think having the ability to choose whom to approach and whom not to, is a good thing.

The woman who said, "Just don't talk to me" out of the blue on the sidewalk may have had a bad day, or bad experiences with men, or whatever, but I truly don't care. If I went around being nasty to people unprovoked, nobody would care how my day was. They'd be angry with me, as they should be. The incident bugged me for weeks--I thought, "what did I do wrong? What should I have done? Do women tend to dislike all men, or me in particular?" And when combined with daily complaints I hear towards men, and my abusive date, and all these other things I've seen, it contributed to the sense that many women will dislike me at first sight.

About a decade ago, a woman asked me "Why are you smiling like an idiot?". Complete stranger. I was just passing by, not smiling and not looking at her. She even stopped me to tell me that.
Things like this happen sometimes. What may help you to reduce stress, is to realize that you don't have control over things which already happened. You can't change that and constantly bothering yourself with them won't do any good to you. That woman might have a bad day or hate men or be mentally ill, doesn't matter. It's her problem, there is no need to make it yours.

I don't have any good choices.

Dating, for me, is like tightrope walking. I want to get to the other side, which isn't sex so much as just having someone there for me. I am really not very interested in sex anymore due to serious depression, and lost that interest about two years ago. It never really came back.

If I fall over to one side by being too slow, not flirting enough, or worrying about not offending women in genral, I fail, but fall into a net. Idiots would call me a wimp, or a coward, but in truth I'd have fallen because I was being considerate. Going on a date and having nothing happen because I was too cautious is a waste of time but isn't a disaster.

I sympathize.
As a suggestion, may be you can start with activity which is less stressful for you, than dating or flirting? Do you have female friends or colleagues which you may have a friendly chat with? The idea is to take small steps out of your comfort zone and to gain positive experience, instead of throwing yourself in the middle of a river trying to learn how to swim.

 

[Phrossack]

No, you don't speak for women in general, but supporting a fellow forum member once in awhile wouldn't go amiss. Several of us have spoken up for you; should we edit our posts because you're capable of speaking for yourself? Or will you just accept it as the gesture of friendship it was meant to be, as I accept it when one of the guys here speaks up for me on some occasions?


As I said, I wasn't excusing her. I was listing possible reasons as to why she was rude. You did nothing wrong. You shouldn't assume that because one woman was rude to you, that all women dislike you.

That's fair, and thank you. I'll take note the next time I see "girls" used for women.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

I was once in a situation when woman I know asked me out, but I didn't like her and had to refuse. That was very awkward, because of this "reversed gender roles" situation. Most likely that was very awkward for her too. So, while I understand your position, I still think having the ability to choose whom to approach and whom not to, is a good thing.

How is it different from you asking a woman out when she actually doesn't like you?

And... are you saying that only men should have the option to choose whom to approach and whom not to approach? I am really confused, actually.

 

[red_elk]

And... are you saying that only men should have the option to choose whom to approach and whom not to approach?

Everyone has the option to choose whom to approach. But I would prefer to be refused, rather then refuse.

 

[Phrossack]

I was once in a situation when woman I know asked me out, but I didn't like her and had to refuse. That was very awkward, because of this "reversed gender roles" situation. Most likely that was very awkward for her too. So, while I understand your position, I still think having the ability to choose whom to approach and whom not to, is a good thing.


About a decade ago, a woman asked me "Why are you smiling like an idiot?". Complete stranger. I was just passing by, not smiling and not looking at her. She even stopped me to tell me that.
Things like this happen sometimes. What may help you to reduce stress, is to realize that you don't have control over things which already happened. You can't change that and constantly bothering yourself with them won't do any good to you. That woman might have a bad day or hate men or be mentally ill, doesn't matter. It's her problem, there is no need to make it yours.


I sympathize.
As a suggestion, may be you can start with activity which is less stressful for you, than dating or flirting? Do you have female friends or colleagues which you may have a friendly chat with? The idea is to take small steps out of your comfort zone and to gain positive experience, instead of throwing yourself in the middle of a river trying to learn how to swim.

I tend to think things to death, and since I'm unfortunately what they are now calling "neurodivergent," I constantly check my thoughts and actions to see if they're actually insane, or just different. So when people do something like that to me, I have to wonder whether I did something wrong, or whether there's something different about me that people just don't like.

I unfortunately have no colleagues, female or otherwise, near my age. Small office, and pretty much all the women are married. My female friends are not options for dating for various reasons. And I think it's very dangerous to date someone you regularly see already, especially if you and they have mutual friends. A bad breakup could have nasty fallout. My city's big but empty, and most of the women my age here are dating, married, or not my type. There are almost no chances to meet women my age around here in person at this point in my life. Meeting them online helps a little but there aren't many and online dating is a real crapshoot. I wish there were an SCA around here--maybe there is, but my means of transportation are limited right now.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I tend to think things to death, and since I'm unfortunately what they are now calling "neurodivergent," I constantly check my thoughts and actions to see if they're actually insane, or just different. So when people do something like that to me, I have to wonder whether I did something wrong, or whether there's something different about me that people just don't like.

I unfortunately have no colleagues, female or otherwise, near my age. Small office, and pretty much all the women are married. My female friends are not options for dating for various reasons. And I think it's very dangerous to date someone you regularly see already, especially if you and they have mutual friends. A bad breakup could have nasty fallout. My city's big but empty, and most of the women my age here are dating, married, or not my type. There are almost no chances to meet women my age around here in person at this point in my life. Meeting them online helps a little but there aren't many and online dating is a real crapshoot. I wish there were an SCA around here--maybe there is, but my means of transportation are limited right now.

I don't drive, but I was able to remain active in the local SCA for 12 years. There's usually someone in each branch willing to give rides. You live in a big city, so there should be a branch somewhere around - it just takes a bit of searching to find them. If you'd like some help, drop me a PM. I can at least help you figure out which kingdom you're in and a short list of the nearby branches (whether a canton, shire, barony, etc.). From there it would be up to you to try to contact them. It's much easier now than it was in the pre-internet times, which is mostly when I was active.

 

[Phrossack]

I don't drive, but I was able to remain active in the local SCA for 12 years. There's usually someone in each branch willing to give rides. You live in a big city, so there should be a branch somewhere around - it just takes a bit of searching to find them. If you'd like some help, drop me a PM. I can at least help you figure out which kingdom you're in and a short list of the nearby branches (whether a canton, shire, barony, etc.). From there it would be up to you to try to contact them. It's much easier now than it was in the pre-internet times, which is mostly when I was active.

Thanks, I just looked it up and apparently it's theoretically possible for me to reach! Too bad it meets on work nights, but maybe I can get around that if I go to work early and leave early.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Thanks, I just looked it up and apparently it's theoretically possible for me to reach! Too bad it meets on work nights, but maybe I can get around that if I go to work early and leave early.

Meetings usually happen during the week, but the events like feasts and tournaments happen on the weekend.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Everyone has the option to choose whom to approach. But I would prefer to be refused, rather then refuse.

What if some women also prefer to be refused rather than refuse?

I am really not following where preferences are a consequence of "reverse gender roles" tbh.

 

[red_elk]

I unfortunately have no colleagues, female or otherwise, near my age. Small office, and pretty much all the women are married. My female friends are not options for dating for various reasons. And I think it's very dangerous to date someone you regularly see already, especially if you and they have mutual friends. A bad breakup could have nasty fallout. My city's big but empty, and most of the women my age here are dating, married, or not my type. There are almost no chances to meet women my age around here in person at this point in my life. Meeting them online helps a little but there aren't many and online dating is a real crapshoot. I wish there were an SCA around here--maybe there is, but my means of transportation are limited right now.

It's not necessary to set a goal to date someone. IMO if you are focused too much on finding a partner, it may have a negative effect. People will sense it like you are trying to solve your own problems, instead of just having fun together. Imagine talking to a woman who is desperate to find husband - you would probably run away right after you realize that she is more interested in finding someone to marry, rather than be interested in you as a person. So, a better goal to pursue, would be just to have a good time and pleasant conversation, regardless if you want to date this woman or not. In any case it will help you to improve your social skills so that next time you will feel more confident talking to women you actually like and want to date.

 

[red_elk]

What if some women also prefer to be refused rather than refuse?

What if I like spaghetti and some women don't? Not the end of the world, I guess.
We are free to ignore each other's preferences, unless we are in close relationships.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yes. But still these hints are in most cases invitations for a man to take initiative. At least formally.

Correct. I've only seen an exception a few times, and those were certainly exceptions (passing on hints, getting invited outright, declining, then getting a "lots of men want me" argument for why I shouldn't decline!). Overwhelming majority of cases hints to take initiative are all you get.

It tends to be done by individuals, not systems, and in the grand scheme of things is unimportant.

That's already been refuted in this thread. The law enforcement/sentencing gap is just one example, but it's an egregious example. Claiming this doesn't exist is like claiming race-based law enforcement differences don't exist...actually it's less in touch with reality than that (sex-based is more skewed).

As that was already pointed out and not addressed, it's odd to see a false claim repeated.

On a side note, the reaction to "boys" vs "girls" in this thread is strange too. Men and women both say "boys" to refer to adult men in a non-derogatory fashion in multiple different contexts. Compared to the rest of that post which was inconsistent with reality it was the least controversial part and not a big deal at all :/.

As for online vs. in-person dating, I think the latter still has a place for meeting people.

They both have advantages. Online is a good starting point because it can act like a filter for both sides - people who are definitely incompatible with each other can rule each other out without having any hurt feelings/awkward moments/going on a bad date/etc. Generally romantic relationships move to "in person" from there. Meeting someone at random can also, but statistics aren't on your side there.

Going on a date and having nothing happen because I was too cautious is a waste of time but isn't a disaster.

There's nothing wrong with this and it's strange to call it a "waste of time". The purpose of early dating, if you're seeking a relationship, is to get to know somebody. Unless you're so cautious as to mostly not talk to them I don't see how this could reasonably be construed as a "waste of time". Sexual compatibility is important to long term relationships but it's not something you need to discover within a few dates.

If a woman drops/moves on from someone over not sleeping with them by the 3rd date or something that should probably be considered a red flag if the goal is a long-term relationship...she's probably looking for something different. If we're talking 6 months it's a different matter, but that's past the "being cautious" phase.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

On a side note, the reaction to "boys" vs "girls" in this thread is strange too. Men and women both say "boys" to refer to adult men in a non-derogatory fashion in multiple different contexts. Compared to the rest of that post which was inconsistent with reality it was the least controversial part and not a big deal at all :/.

Those contexts were not here on the forum. I'm older than most of the posters on this forum, with the added issue that I was raised by grandparents who would have been livid if anyone had referred to either of them as a "boy" or a "girl".

I'm not a child, and don't like being addressed as one. So do not refer to me as a "girl" or "kid" or any other similar word. In turn, I will grant everyone else the courtesy of not referring to them as "boy" or "girl" or "kid" (or some variation). Since no one has objected to my referring to the male forum members as "guys" I assume that's okay?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Those contexts were not here on the forum. I'm older than most of the posters on this forum, with the added issue that I was raised by grandparents who would have been livid if anyone had referred to either of them as a "boy" or a "girl".

I'm not a child, and don't like being addressed as one. So do not refer to me as a "girl" or "kid" or any other similar word. In turn, I will grant everyone else the courtesy of not referring to them as "boy" or "girl" or "kid" (or some variation). Since no one has objected to my referring to the male forum members as "guys" I assume that's okay?

I'd imagine that's fine too, I'm not the authority on such things and clearly have a more lax perspective on it than several others here. I've seen enough common usage of these terms that their meaning being tied necessarily to children isn't apparent to me. Even more so on a forum where intent behind words is already muddled, I'd much rather focus the message conveyed when possible.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Useage varies. My mother refers to herself and her golfing friends as girls which I find odd as they are all 70+.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I think that language has morphed enough that the term "girls" is as at least as non-offensive as calling men "boys". As far as I am concerned, if we can call them "the boys", they can do the same for us and call us "girls" without me getting bent out of shape about it. There are far more stupid things we say to each other that are worth getting into a snit over.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I think that language has morphed enough that the term "girls" is as at least as non-offensive as calling men "boys". As far as I am concerned, if we can call them "the boys", they can do the same for us and call us "girls" without me getting bent out of shape about it. There are far more stupid things we say to each other that are worth getting into a snit over.

So if I say that I consider it discourteous to refer to me as a "girl" or some variation of "kid" I'm just "getting in a snit" and should shut up about it? I don't refer to men as "boys." They're not children. And neither am I.

It's called courtesy. Some of the problems on this forum happen when people deliberately call others by names or terms they've explicitly stated they don't want used.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

So if I say that I consider it discourteous to refer to me as a "girl" or some variation of "kid" I'm just "getting in a snit" and should shut up about it? I don't refer to men as "boys." They're not children. And neither am I.

It's called courtesy. Some of the problems on this forum happen when people deliberately call others by names or terms they've explicitly stated they don't want used.

(Bolding mine)

Please don't put words in my mouth. You bark when people do it to you. I expect the same courtesy.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

(Bolding mine)

Please don't put words in my mouth. You bark when people do it to you. I expect the same courtesy.

You used the words "getting into a snit." Your post implied that those of us who object to being referred to as children shouldn't object because there are worse things that get said. The meaning is clear enough.

I don't "bark", btw.

 

[red_elk]

So if I say that I consider it discourteous to refer to me as a "girl" or some variation of "kid" I'm just "getting in a snit" and should shut up about it?

Obviously, if you asked not to call you a girl, it will be respectful not to do it.

But what if someone uses the word in context of romantic relationships? I mean sentences like "I date a girl", "girlfriend", etc. are being used all the time and in this context it's clearly not about child. Do you think this usage is ok?