My game on Immortal

[vranasm]

as chopster said, I am very surprised city 3 is not on the PH 1S...

as for the axe rush, the window is closing, very good attack date for them is T60...that's 6 turns from now on, there is a reason why axe rushes are done with 2 cities.

You could focus with axes for the barb cities though, they look to be in good position (all 3 of them) so definitely worth getting. That would bring you to 6 good cities.

the jungle to s-se doesn't look attractive for settling anyway.
I would scout around the east horse on the desert for some sea food.
in the north around the clams-mountains too.

You could probably place another city on the PH 2W of corn (the one in Berlin's 3rd ring) and battle for access to the corn while using the Berlins resources, you will have to stagnate Berlin probably soon, so worth placing city for more abuse.

After you take Freddy out you will get the corn if you didn't get it through monument+library sooner.

As for when and how to take out Freddy... it almost looks like your best bet is to wait for Cuirs. But you need Iron.
I would probably finish writing (shut research off while building library in capital) and then either Alpha or Aesth, depends which you think is more probable the AI's won't tech.
You are on island with only 2 AI as it seems and that is always trouble with AI's getting Alpha for you, it's too unpredictable.

oh btw Calendar would be pretty good tech for you eventually too to solve happy issues with silk, sugar and eventually incense if you get the Barb cities.

 

[Deity player]

I'm far from an expert, but I'd have placed that fish city 1S on the plains hill.
You gain an extra hammer every turn for life, you don't need to feed two plains hills, and eventually it can work the 6 yield grass cow.

It also allows a filler city later on one of the sugars after you get the barb city.

as chopster said, I am very surprised city 3 is not on the PH 1S...

Settling this city on the PH was my first idea, too. But then I realized that Bulgar is in a very good spot not to keep once I capture it and then the S sugar would end up unworkable until I settled those filler city. Later with calendar, this placing looks better for me.

 

[Deity player]

In the next turnset, I plan to scout the remaining fog of war, settle all good spots and capture some barbar cities.

I don't think I should wait until the culture flip of Bulgar since I would have wait for ages for the next culture spread. So I will try to capture it with axemen.

But what I am really unsure about is what to research. Writing is clear but what to research next? Alphabet, Aesthetics, beeline CoL, ...?

 

[yatta77]

But what I am really unsure about is what to research. Writing is clear but what to research next? Alphabet, Aesthetics, beeline CoL, ...?

My silly short answer would be: all 3 are very good options!
My silly long answer would be:
(a) if you believe you'll be the first to discover it and/or you'll get mathematics plus another bunch of cheap techs for it, then alphabet;
(b) if you think you'll be late at alphabet to gain the best deals yourself for it, then aesthetics, especially if you target literature for some reason (national epic, national heroic, great library), aesthetics + few turn in alphabet = alphabet trade with some AI;
(c) if you wish to go economic-wise: mathematics -> currency -> code of laws.

Again, just my silly opinion, so compare it to others!

Cheers, and good luck with your game!

 

[vranasm]

on this map with these 2 AIs it's very tough to predict if you will be first to alpha or not.

I almost think you should go for alpha on your own. But you can definitely wait for writing. Building library and accumulating something like 200 gold for 100% deficit research before you commit.

At that point it should be much clearer if Fredy or Gilga went for Alpha or not.

The problem is the number of neighbors. Only 2 mean big question mark... If it was 4+ I would bet for someone get Alpha in reasonable time.

You should not wait for Alpha with Aesth teched till 1AD (as sometimes happened to me) and teching Aesth AND Alpha will definitely hurt you.

Btw having only 2 tech partners is bad too. Limits you multiplicative effect of tech trades :-(.

I kind of started to prefer pangea for all those reasons ;-).

 

[Deity player]

1840 BC - 1480 BC

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After building two axemen in the capital I wanted one more worker.

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Barbs began to be an issue...

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...but I have a plan with them.

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Frederick founds Cologne really close.

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Finally some more cash in my pocket.

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Our cities.

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Our land. (I know, more scouting needed...)

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The tech situation.

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I think I will research Alphabet now since neither Frederick nor Gilgamesh had even Writing one turn back (I could not sign OB whith them). Due to the lack of scouting, I did not build more settlers yet. I will build a library and some more axemen instead.

 

[obsolete]

I did a quick run this afternoon, not going to bother finishing it though. I took out Frederick from the start with HAs after he built me a bunch of wonders... and then Gilga decided to go after a cultural vic, making him fall hopelessly behind in tech and I moped him up easily before he could get close to the finish.

Don't think I"m going to waste my time on any more non-pangea maps.

 

[Deity player]

I did a quick run this afternoon, not going to bother finishing it though. I took out Frederick from the start with HAs after he built me a bunch of wonders... and then Gilga decided to go after a cultural vic, making him fall hopelessly behind in tech and I moped him up easily before he could get close to the finish.

Well done I also hope Frederich will build some wonders for me.

Don't think I"m going to waste my time on any more non-pangea maps.

Why? Do you find Continents easier? Or do you find intercontinental wars tedious?

 

[Gwynnja]

Don't think I"m going to waste my time on any more non-pangea maps.

Haha! The guy has spent literally thousands of hours playing a video game, and any other map types than the one he likes is wasting his time. There needs to be a face palm smiley.

 

[Deity player]

I have already played the next turnset (until researching Alphabet). I am rather satisfied but still have some difficulties with many decisions. The update will be maybe only tomorrow since I have many images to treat with.

 

[Deity player]

1480 BC - 775 BC

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I continued with granary in my second city after work boat.

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Started another settler since I found a good site for another blocking city, see later.

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Finally found Gilgamesh's border.

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One more axeman in Capital (quickly built with some chops) needed since barbs were really annoying. Also started generating GPP.

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Granary next and dealing with those nasty barbs.

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This is our 'military city' (at least for a while).

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The fourth blocking city. This city has little food (=no hurry fo granary), no culture press (=no hurry for monument/library) so I decided to build some work boats. They can be used for exploration or for the seafood in the N where I will settle soon.

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Gilgamesh offers OB but I refused. I don't know the mechanics of trade routes but I would not profit from OB with Gilgamesh now, or would I?

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This brave axeman killed another two barb archers.

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And one more axeman in my Capital.

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Finally Alphabet!

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To be continued...

 

[Deity player]

...second part.

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The tech situation looks very good.

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Our four cities.

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Our land (finally better explored).

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Here is some more info.

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Here are possible tech trades.

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The tech situation looks very good but my current tech rate is low. This is because I still have no cottage city. I also pay 5 gold per turn for unit cost but this will change soon because I will certainly lose some axemen during capturing those barb cities. I will have a GS in 6 turns and should probably settle him.
It's a pity that we have no religion in our cities and so diplo is not so good.

I have many questions. If you think you can answer some of them, please, do so! I would appreciate it. There are many but feel free to answer whatever you want. Or just give me some other advice.

1) Should I sign OB with Gilgamesh?
2) What tech trades should I do and what should I research next?
3) Should I trade for the Gilgamesh's wine resource immediately?
4) What to do with the upcoming GS?
5) Which barb cities should I raze and which should I keep? Where should I settle more cities?
6) In which order should I capture the barb cities/settle more cities?
7) Should I train more warriors for city defense or should I garisoin the new cities with the veteran axemen? (BTW, how is it possible that I can still train warriors when I have copper?)
8)Should I prepare some medieval war against Frederick or not?
9) Should I convert to Slavery? (I didn't yet since I liked the high production in my cities and didn't want whip them.)
10) Any other comment/advice?

 

[Gumbolt]

for me there are a few issues here.

Firstly I nearly just choked on a chip. Acckkkk!!!

1. I see no reason why you should not open border with Gilga. They are unlikely to send settlers across your cultural borders to settle cities. They could at worst attack the barb cities.

2. For me you need to get IW from trades which means trading away writing for basic techs like hunting etc from Germans and Gilga. You need IW so you can see if Germans have metal!

One thing you have not done is scouted out the Germans land. There is a reason for opening borders you know. Yes for the trade but also to see how strong the Ai really is. You have 8 axes you could still delcare on the germans if they have no metals.
3. Yes trade for wine. You are at your happiness cap in most cities. He will accept a fish! Deal!!
4. Academy in your capital. Bulbing maths seems a big waste. Settling will fail to match the academy long term.
5. Pends if you go to war with Germany or settle peacefully.

If peacefully I would keep the barb city near Berlin (Bulgar) as the upkeep will be cheaper. Not 100% on circassian. Purely as it could be resettled to include horse and the extra silk. That being said it is size 5 already.

Overall your main issue is the gold to maintain 5-6+ cities before currency. You have no cottages yet. Capturing barb cities would offer short term gold you can run down till your cities provide for themselve. Use of scientists and building of science to reach currency. Oh capture bulger then city north of it circassian. Purely as closer to capital.

8. Why do you want more warriors??? You have 8 axemen! Either use them or delete them. Do consider 1-2 spear if you take war to Germans.

9. Slavery. You don't really have a lot of spare food to whip cities. Only Berlin could of done this. If you capture the barb cities slavery might have a use.

For me what you lack is workers. You have 4 cities and 3 workers. Not enough by far.
You need to explore Germans land and decide if you are going to declare. If you attack Bulgar you can capture one worker. You will probably lose 2 axes but will gain a city, a worker and maybe some gold. 60 hammer worker for 70 hammers in terms of axes.

Overall the game will go 1 of two ways. You declare on Germans and capture Berlin and 2-3 other cities. Or you rex peacefully capturing the 3 barb cities and use gold from that and scientists to rex peacefully while your economy recovers. You will need some cottages.

Other main issue is forest. You have swathes of the stuff to chop. chop for an army or a wonder? No marble or stone so maybe an army.

 

[Deity player]

Thanks for your reply, some of your tips will definitely help me.

1. I see no reason why you should not open border with Gilga. They are unlikely to send settlers across your cultural borders to settle cities. They could at worst attack the barb cities.

The only reason not to open borders is that I don't want to increase Gilgamesh's income if it doesn't affect me. But I really don't know the exact mechanics of trade routes.

2. For me you need to get IW from trades which means trading away writing for basic techs like hunting etc from Germans and Gilga. You need IW so you can see if Germans have metal!

Ok.

One thing you have not done is scouted out the Germans land. There is a reason for opening borders you know. Yes for the trade but also to see how strong the Ai really is. You have 8 axes you could still delcare on the germans if they have no metals.

I will probably build a chariot or two and send it to Germany.

3. Yes trade for wine. You are at your happiness cap in most cities. He will accept a fish! Deal!!

Yes, but I won't grow anyway (maybe except the capital). So is it really worth it?

4. Academy in your capital. Bulbing maths seems a big waste. Settling will fail to match the academy long term.

Are you sure? My economy is weak at the moment and short term, the settled GS would be probably better.

5. Pends if you go to war with Germany or settle peacefully.

If peacefully I would keep the barb city near Berlin (Bulgar) as the upkeep will be cheaper. Not 100% on circassian. Purely as it could be resettled to include horse and the extra silk. That being said it is size 5 already.

Overall your main issue is the gold to maintain 5-6+ cities before currency. You have no cottages yet. Capturing barb cities would offer short term gold you can run down till your cities provide for themselve. Use of scientists and building of science to reach currency. Oh capture bulger then city north of it circassian. Purely as closer to capital.

I prefer the peacful way after settling all those blocking cities. But I will scout German land and see if Frederick has metals.

8. Why do you want more warriors??? You have 8 axemen! Either use them or delete them. Do consider 1-2 spear if you take war to Germans.

Warriors for city garison for the cities I will capture from barbs. But I will change the production for one or two chariots for scouting.

9. Slavery. You don't really have a lot of spare food to whip cities. Only Berlin could of done this. If you capture the barb cities slavery might have a use.

This is what I thought. Ok, I will delay this decision for later.

For me what you lack is workers. You have 4 cities and 3 workers. Not enough by far.
You need to explore Germans land and decide if you are going to declare. If you attack Bulgar you can capture one worker. You will probably lose 2 axes but will gain a city, a worker and maybe some gold. 60 hammer worker for 70 hammers in terms of axes.

I know. I wanted to build some axes to capture those barb cities and this delayed more workers. However, I didn't work unimproved tiles at all.

 

[Gumbolt]

In terms of the wine. The capital could grow in size. In terms of the barb cities they could grow too. As for sharing resources this gives diplomatic bonuses?? Long term you need to grow your cities past size 4-5. If this means irrigating a few grassland then so be it for the smaller cities.

It seems best thing going forward is to take the 3 barb cities and start building up the economy and build some science towards currency for the extra trade routes. Meanwhile run down gold from barb cities till you can sustain the economy at 0%. You also have a clam/fish/dye/ corn? city at top of map. So 8 cities in total.

I think an academy will produce more science long term than a settled GS. You don't have rep/mids. Your capital already has 13.5 base science including the scientists. Once science slider goes up this will only rise. I assume you will use binary research.

Oh you built 8 axes!! What do you mean build some axes for later to take those cities??? Not sure exactly why you built all these axes in that case if they were not to take the barb cities? Make sure you do this before longbows arrive.

You need to decide a way forward and stick to it. On immortal if you allow yourself to get distracted you will soon fall behind the AI.

If you wanted to rex peacefully there was no real reason to build 8 axes beyond 1-2 fog busting! 1 chariot for scouting is not a bad idea. If you can capture more barb workers that is not a bad thing either.

 

[Deity player]

Just to be clear: when I said peacfully I meant no war with Frederick. Those nasty barbs have to die anyway

 

[Gumbolt]

Just to be clear: when I said peacfully I meant no war with Frederick. Those nasty barbs have to die anyway

I got that.

 

[shpeka]

You have only 2 trading partners which means you will have to selftech a lot. Even if you decide to take down the Germans, you still need an economic capital. Since I don't see a river around Berlin it might be a good idea to cottage up Babylon (you have 6 riverside tiles there) now. A few workers will be needed.

 

[Killroyan]

I love the fact that those barb cities are almost perfectly placed so you can almost keep them all. They even roaded the fish/clam/incense city for you. If you are not gunning for Frederick then get these cities asap

 

[Deity player]

775 BC - 500 BC

Spoiler :

I made some trades on the first turn of this turnset.

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Only one axeman died while capturing this barb city (with two archers on a hill).

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One more trade. I decided to do this trade with Frederick (Gilgamesh offered exactly the same trade) since Gilgamesh's research seems to be much faster.

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Where is iron?

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Frederick has no metal. However, I decided to capture the barb cities first and this was a lucky choice since some turns later, he grabbed iron (see later).

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I wanted Currancy as soon as possible (the starvation saved me one turn).

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I built an academy with my first GS.

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The second barb city (with five archers!) captured and one of my axemen died. I didn't keep this city.

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Finally hinduism has spread. But I didn't click the 'anarchy button' immediately and then forgot to do it. I converted only five turns later (on the last turn of this turnset).

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Currancy.

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Here is Frederick's iron.

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To be continued...