Nero04: Skipping some levels? It's training day

Science at min will not give us MapMaking first. As the AI's have writing too. We should science or change it. I second the Beefbayford that you should have taken everything the englished would offer too. Now they most likely traded it withe the Vikings.

Please stick to the dotmap. Settler should be 1 North to be in the ring. I would have sent this settler to the ivory and make the road there a priority, 60% lux is just too expensive. Probably should head for incense as well.

Try to improve only tiles which are used, start with the best tiles: plains on river, flood plains and bonus grass.

Not buying IW was good dicision we just have gold to spend it's not that we would trade a tech they might get elsewhere. We will just get more gold and tech can only become cheaper, we can buy it when we need it.

Azzaman is UP
 
For the team some questions that I do not have answers to:

  1. If we change our research now, do we lose all we have spent on Map-Making? I think we do, but I cannot remember from the games I have played. In the Pee-Wee leagues I kept my science at 0% or 10% and bought my research from the AIs. So if I know I have forgotten.
  2. If we did change our research, what we would try to learn next? For example, would we want to try to get Republic for ourselves (and then trade it) or learn something we might get a monopoly on?
  3. Do we need two barracks when we have three, soon to be, five cities?
  4. At what point do we begin to focus on building buildings?
  5. Something that almost always confuses me: should our workers work together or separately this early in the game?
  6. Long term question: How are we going to deal with the Vikings and the English? Gold pieces or pointy-stick?

I do not have anything close to a fixed-in-stone answer to these things.

But we need more discussion in order to get a common plan.
 
I'll answer the first now, and let team discus other questions.

The science we put into MM will be rememberd, another tech starts with an empty scale, if we were to go back to researching MM we start with to science we put into it.
 
If we did change our research, what we would try to learn next? For example, would we want to try to get Republic for ourselves (and then trade it) or learn something we might get a monopoly on? I think getting Republic or Code of Laws would work, so we can trade it. We need to research advanced techs to trade for lower-level techs.
Do we need two barracks when we have three, soon to be, five cities? I think we need a couple Barracks so we get better units, and we get enough archers to plan an attack on the Vikings.
At what point do we begin to focus on building buildings? After we have reached the limit of expansion. I think building Granaries, Barracks, and maybe Temples should be it.
Something that almost always confuses me: should our workers work together or separately this early in the game? I separated the workers because I read on the Forum that in the long-term they can work more tiles than stacked.
Long term question: How are we going to deal with the Vikings and the English? Gold pieces or pointy-stick? I think we need to attack the Vikings before they attack us. They are one of the most aggressive civs, so you know they're coming after us. By that time, our culture should be big enough to hold off the English.
 
If we did change our research, what we would try to learn next? For example, would we want to try to get Republic for ourselves (and then trade it) or learn something we might get a monopoly on? I think getting Republic or Code of Laws would work, so we can trade it. We need to research advanced techs to trade for lower-level techs.
Sounds good to me, mostly because I try to get Republic as quick as possible. However, since that is what I did at lower levels, I am not so sure it is the best thing to do now. My habits say go for Republic; my intellect says I need to look before I leap.

Do we need two barracks when we have three, soon to be, five cities? I think we need a couple Barracks so we get better units, and we get enough archers to plan an attack on the Vikings.
We need a barracks, I agree. But where are our threats from? At the moment, just barbarians are attacking us. We can pick our fights, sometimes, with the barbarians, and with archers, even regular archers, we can deal with them. The greatest future threat that we know of are the Vikings and right now they are focused on England. Just for now, I think we need a Barracks close to Viking-land. I do not think we need two Barracks at the present time.

How many archers would be enough to attack the Vikings? And what do we know of their military, except that they are very aggressive?


At what point do we begin to focus on building buildings? After we have reached the limit of expansion. I think building Granaries, Barracks, and maybe Temples should be it.
When do we reach that limit? When we have a certain number of cities? Our first war?
I agree with the idea, but how do we know when we are there?

Something that almost always confuses me: should our workers work together or separately this early in the game? I separated the workers because I read on the Forum that in the long-term they can work more tiles than stacked.
I am not sure when to focus on long term worker allocation. It has to be balanced with which tiles we can use in the near future. If I were to guess, I would guess that up until 10 AD or so we will need to make sure our workers improve tiles that can actually be used by our citizens. This is something I need to work on.

Long term question: How are we going to deal with the Vikings and the English? Gold pieces or pointy-stick? I think we need to attack the Vikings before they attack us. They are one of the most aggressive civs, so you know they're coming after us. By that time, our culture should be big enough to hold off the English.
I agree that we need to pay attention to the Vikings and at least find a way to neutralize them. Later, we may want to dominate or even eliminate them.

Two things come to mind very quickly on the Vikings. One, we have no hard intelligence on the Vikings; we do not know how many cities they have or where the cities are located. They may have only two cities and the English just one, while we have three, heading to five. Second, we need a plan. And we cannot plan without intelligence.

For now, I would focus on keeping England alive and at war with the Vikings. The longer they fight, the better off we are. While they attack each other, we build cities towards them. We explore the land and find where their cities are located. We build up our military with archers and any fast units we can make. When the time is right (and I do not know when this would be) we attack the Vikings and try to eliminate them. We declare war properly (no ROP rape or sailing ships in their waters). And we try to get them to a manageable level; that is down to one or two cities, if not totally wiped off the face of the planet. Since we are trying to go to Alpha Centauri we may not want to eliminate them, I do not know.

Once the Vikings are manageable we would focus on England and set her straight about the honor and glory of Spain. We would not let her forget that at one time she refused to allow a Spaniard to ascend to the throne of England (Phillip II, husband of Mary I, who was half-sister to Elizabeth I).

Remember
this is discussion. Nothing has been agreed upon. Let us talk, plan and do.
 
Since going for space we would like to keep scientific civ´s in the game as they get free techs we can use. Vikings should be dealt with before invention as then the get beserks, very strong and able to launch amfibious attack. But they are a bit far from us. So we need fast units to reach them.

Workers work most efficient when single workers are roading and stacks are irrigating/mining. I thought I mentioned this before. Us stacks of 2 or 4 for irrigating and 2, 3 or 6 for mining.

@C-Bob why would you want to build inferiour (reg) units? A vet has 33% more strenght. Since wo don´t have units with a high attack value we ust make sure the are as strong as possible.

We´ve got 2 luxes, which means we won´t need temples for now. Maybe jsut a few in the cities on rivers after they reach size 6 or so.

As we are going to space I suggest researching literature, it will very likely be a monopoly, as the AI most ofter goes after MM first. Since prices go down when more civ´s know a tech we should be able to trade lit for MM and probably so other lower tech to other civ´s. It will let us build libs in our core and get us a tech lead.
 
nerovats said:
@C-Bob why would you want to build inferiour (reg) units? A vet has 33% more strenght. Since wo don´t have units with a high attack value we ust make sure the are as strong as possible.

CommandoBob said:
We can pick our fights, sometimes, with the barbarians, and with archers, even regular archers, we can deal with them.

I did not mean to imply building regular units, but rereading what I wrote I can understand why you might think that I did. My writing is not always as clear as I think it is. The point I was trying to make was that the barbarians could be fought successfully with regular units. I did not know if we had any archers; they were more for example than actual usage.

While I am not sure of the build rate, keeping the barracks in Barcelona seems wiser because it is closer to the Vikings. I think that Seville (Yellow Dot City) should be building something besides a barracks, perhaps a worker to donate to Barcelona, or another building. But without the game in front of me I am just guessing and remembering.

I think that one barracks is fine, two is overkill for right now. I think we can manage our military to handle the barbarians in the near future until we get veteran units to help us out.

Now, if we add a few new cities in the near future, we probably will need a second barracks, but let us build, or at least plan, those cities before we do much else.
 
CommandoBob said:
... I try to get Republic as quick as possible. However, since that is what I did at lower levels, I am not so sure it is the best thing to do now. My habits say go for Republic; my intellect says I need to look before I leap.

nerovats said:
As we are going to space I suggest researching literature, it will very likely be a monopoly, as the AI most ofter goes after MM first. Since prices go down when more civ´s know a tech we should be able to trade lit for MM and probably so other lower tech to other civ´s. It will let us build libs in our core and get us a tech lead.
Makes sense to me. Forgot about how we wanted to win.
 
Like nero said, it's important to have monopolies on certain techs in order to keep up the pace. Maybe we can get hold of Iron Working from the AI and pray we get a source of iron to build swordsmen with :hammer:
 
Thanx BB, finally my first award (actually second I got 1 for lowest score when I missed a 1CC victory by a couple of turns). Didn´t even try very hard as I didn´t have a lot of time on my hands.

Hope Azza see´s this and posts a got it, just couple of hours left...
 
Just saw Tao is starting another training game for Vanilla. Wanted to put your attention on it, as the best way to learn is to play.
 
@nerovats:
I have been looking at your dotmap from long ago on Post #120.

All the '1's and '2's are on RCP4, just to state the obvious.

Blue 1 should be the next city, City 04. It gives us luxuries, and right now that is critical.

I think that Red 2 should be City 05. It gives us a port on the East Ocean and later we can make galleys to explore the coast.

While I would prefer that Red 2 be City 05, since we have a settler south of Madrid, City 05 might be Blue 2. I think Red 2 will be a stronger city than Blue 2 for a long time, but Blue 2 is where the settler is. Not in a great place, but we do plan to build a city there, so go ahead and build on Blue 2.
And then build Red 2 as City 06.

Yellow 2 is the better site when compared to Pink 2. I would try to make it City 07. Pink 2 will be squashed between Yellow 1 (already built, forgot the name) and Red 2. It will be a slow growing city since it is surrounded by mountians, hills and desert and the sea. But Pink 2 would complete the '1' ring of RCP4, which means very little corruption in that city.

Would it be wise to move Red 2 one tile to the NW (to the grassland) to allow Pink 2 better growth?

I cannot tell how long it would take us to complete that ring, but I would guess at least two turnsets. We have three cities already, two settlers to build cities, leaving three more settlers to produce to get us to eight cities.
 
lurker's comment: I hope nero doesn't mind that I ask some questions here.

The goal: Space victory.

What are the buildings that give a multiplier effect to that goal?

Temples? I think not. They are a drain on the economy because they will cost you every single turn you own them. There's a multiplier build that will be significant greater impact to the economy and every productive city should have. If happiness is an issue move the lux slider or turn corrupt cities citizens into specialists. It will be cheaper in the long run.
Granaries?To what end? You don't need granaries in every city. Remember specialization. Cities that will produce early workers and settlers need a gran. How many are required to pump these? Grans that are not needed become another buried cost.
Barracks?These are needed till the end of the game unlike the other two. However, does every city have the capability to produce units? If it can't not produce uncorrupted shields to support your military what shoud it build?

I challenge you guys to think about the future multiplier buildings and where they should go and why.
 
Pink 2 won't grow a lot as it's mostly surrounded by food low tiles, except for the ocean.

@Whomp, no problem, all help to get these guys in shape is welcome.

As mentioned in the beginning I started playing this game on my own to be able to compare. After the team lost 2 pop to diseace I disbanded 1 of my cities to compensate. This is even worse as I dind't just loose 2 pop but also 30 shields. Will post a screenie once the team catches up.

Looks like Azza needs to be skipped again...
 
nerovats said:
Pink 2 won't grow a lot as it's mostly surrounded by food low tiles, except for the ocean. snip...

So why do we need Pink 2? :confused:

Good: gives us a coastal city; prevents someone else from taking this spot.
Bad: a slow growing city early in the game; a low shield city early in the game.

I would think our culture expansion would bring that part of coast under our control without Pink 2.

What if we started on Ring 2 of RCP4 before we planted Pink 2? Would that be a better use of the settler?
 
azzaman333 said:
Noooo! Dont skip me! I was busy all of yesterday. But i have the day off school today, so i can play. Got it if i can play it.
Take it away! I can wait.
 
Just in time azza ;)

@C-Bob, the pink would be settled a little later, it is on that spot to take advantage of the coruption circle.
 
before my turnset begins, i built an embassy in London. It get a settler when it expands.

1 1725- change research to lit at min, 39 turns (i actually started last turn) move southern setller 1N to get him in RCP4, move other settler closer to the ivory city.
2 1700- Toledo built down south.change seville barracks to warrior.
3 1675- slight barb prob
4 1650- no more barb problem
5 1625- Ivory city built.
6 1600- Take a big risk, attack a barb horse with redlined warrior. Will the horse kill the worker or pillage the town?
7 1575- THAT ^*%$ing horse killed the worker!!!!!
81550- still barbs floating around
9 1525- nothing much
10 1500- barbs wont p!$$ off.

I really hate barbarians.
 
Back
Top Bottom