Nero04: Skipping some levels? It's training day

[nerovats]

Time for some advice:

Change science to 70% get lit in 15 at +0 gpt. Keep as high as possible. That way we will be able to trade it otherwise we might just get in second and be left empty handed.

Take warrior form sevilla to fortify in madrid (and lower lux) or better kill barbs.

Change seville to worker first we need more of those. Like this it'll take to long for Sevile to complete settler.

Get some scouts out, to much black.

Azzaman333-just played
CommandoBob-UP
BeefBayford-On deck
Hawk Chieftain-

 

[CommandoBob]

Change science to 70% get lit in 15 at +0 gpt. Keep as high as possible. That way we will be able to trade it otherwise we might just get in second and be left empty handed.

OK.

Take warrior form sevilla to fortify in madrid (and lower lux) or better kill barbs.

Prefer to move from Seville into Madrid to lower luxury rate. If we can lower the luxury we can raise the science, right?

Change seville to worker first we need more of those. Like this it'll take to long for Sevile to complete settler.

OK.

Get some scouts out, to much black.

Build scouts or use our warriors as scouts?

 

[nerovats]

If you can build scouts, will be interrested to hear how you pulled that off

 

[CommandoBob]

If you can build scouts, will be interrested to hear how you pulled that off

Uh, well, you see, er -
Work and Civ are a terrible combinaion.

I got the save.

 

[CommandoBob]

End 1500 BC Stats: (azzaman333)

Science: Literature 30 turns
Treasury: 190 gold, +15gpt; 6.1.3
Trade: -
Cities:

• Madrid (6): grows in 3 turns, granary in 1 turns, 2 culture.
• Barcelona (2): grows in 10, barracks in 7 turns, 0 culture.
• Seville (3): grows in 6, settler in 26, 0 culture.
• Toledo (1): grows in 2, worker in 2, 0 culture.
• Ivory City (1): grows in 5, warrior in 5, 0 culture.

Military:

• 06 Warriors, 1 in production
• 03 Workers, 1 in production
• 00 Settlers, 1 in production
• 02 Slaves (?)

Vikings: 253 gold, 5 cities
English: 60 gold, 4 cities

The Spanish Empire at 1500 BC

Cities to Build - Post #120

Red 2 and Yellow 2 have priority over Pink 2.

Cities to the SW and Places for Blocking Units on the Chokepoint

Two cities and two units can block this area from the Vikings and English. Both are on the '2' ring of RCP4; Red Dot has fresh water, I think. 'X's are blocking points.

Cities to the SE

Red, Blue and Pink have fresh water, Purple does not. Purple is coastal. Roads hard to build due to forest, hills and mountains.

 

[CommandoBob]

TO DO LIST:

Science to 70%.
Warrior from Seville to Madrid; fortify or hunt barbs.
Seville from Settler to Worker.

0 1500 BC
[MM]
Set Science to 70%.
Wake Warrior in Seville, W.
Seville: Settler -> Worker, due in 6 turns.

[IBT]
Madrid: Granary -> Warrior, due in 2 turns.



1 1475 BC

Warrior from Seville arrives at Madrid.
Worker near Seville, NW to irrigate Flood Plain; used by Seville.

-1 gpt due to Granary; Science down to 60% from 70%; 0 gpt.
Literature in 16 turns.

Trading
(Price Checking)
Ragnar will trade IW for 150 gold (1st offer).
Ragnar will not trade HBR.
Elizabeth will trade IW for 150 gold (1st offer).

​

[IBT] Ragnar wants 28 gold. We give, for now. Let him fight England.

2 1450 BC

Toledo: Worker -> Archer, due in 10 turns.
Worker from Toledo N, NE irrigate flood plain,
Warrior from Seville, NE, N, NE to attack BarbOnHorse, Veteran vs. Conscript.
Warrior wins, but is in the Yellow.
FirstEnglishWorker SE, E, N. Next turn NW to connect road to Ivory City.

Trading
Nothing.
​

[IBT] BarbOnHorse attacks Ivory City and loses. BarbOnHorse and Barb on mountain SW of Seville.

3 1425 BC

Seville: Worker -> Warrior, due in 5.
Worker from Seville W across river away from barbs.
Madrid: Warrior -> Settler, due in 4.
Warrior from Madrid stays put.
FirstEnglishWorker NW.
Yellow-Lined Warrior W to guard FirstEnglishWorker.

Trading
Nothing.
​

[IBT] Barb attack Seville, we win. BarbOnHorse crosses river and kills Worker from Seville! I thought it would cost 2 for him to cross river; 1 for the river and 1 for the grassland. That hurt. Now this BarbOnHorse is menacing other workers.

4 1400 BC

Activate Warrior from Toledo. N, E, SE to attack BarbOnHorse. We lose.
Move workers into Madrid.
FirstEnglishSettler roads, warrior heals.
Warrior in Madrid fortifies.
Toledo is defenseless.

Trading
Nothing.
​

[IBT] Toledo ransacked, -32 gold.

5 1375 BC

Workers in Madrid begin road to Red 2.
Healing Warrior W to guard them.
Warrior from Ivory City to guard road builder.
Ivory City: Warrior -> Warrior, due in 5.

Trading
Nothing.
​

6 1350 BC

Warrior with Red 2 road builders heals.
Workers with him make road.
SecondEnglishWorker builds mine.
Warrior with FirstEnglishWorker SE to road.

Trading
Nothing.
​

[IBT] Barcelona: Barracks -> Archer, due in 7.

7 1325 BC

Madrid: Settler -> Settler, due in 6 (Yellow 2).
Warrior from Madrid, SW, heading to Toledo.
Settler from Madrid heads to Red 2.
Warrior heads to Red 2.
Warrior with Workers stays put.

-1 gpt, Science to 50%, +1 gpt.

Trading
Nothing.
​

[IBT] BarbOnHorse heads towards Toledo.
English are building the Colossus.

8 1300 BC

Warrior to Toledo, fortifies.
Settler W to Red 2, reveals Barb Camp nearby.
Req Warrior W to Red 2.
Workers irrigate road to Red 2.
Vet Warrior N to destroy Barb Camp next turn.

Trading
Nothing
​

9 1275 BC

Vet Warrior attacks Barb Camp. Wins, but BarbOnHorse in Barb Camp.
Settler founds Salamanca, Warrior in 10, grows in 10.
Warrior in Salamanca moves NW to block access to Workers.
Warrior from Seville, W across river, heading to Madrid, to escort next settler, due in 4 turns.
Seville: Warrior -> Warrior, due in 5.

Trading
Nothing. Ragnar got money from somewhere, was 279, now 303. England still at 86 gold.
​

[IBT] Ottomans have completed the Oracle in Istanbul.

10 1250 BC

Seville: Change Warrior to Worker, due in 4.
Req Warrior attacks BarbOnHorse in Barb Camp. Loses.
Warrior from Seville to Madrid for Yellow 2.
FirstEnglishWorker irrigates SE of Ivory City.
Warrior from Ivory City to Salamanca.
Vet Warrior heals next to Barb Camp.
Workers from road to Salamanca W to help irrigate with FirstEnglishSettler.

Trading
England now offers IW for 140 gold and 1gpt, first offer.
The Vikings have the same offer. Not willing to discuss HBR.
​

End of Turnset Stats:

Science: Literature 7 turns
Treasury: 140 gold, +2gpt; 2.5.3
Trade: -
Cities:

• Madrid (6): grows in 1 turn, settler in 3 turns, culture expansion in 440 turns.
• Barcelona (3): grows in 10, archer in 4 turns, 0 culture.
• Seville (3): grows in 6, settler in 4, 0 culture.
• Toledo (2): grows in 2, archer in 2, 0 culture.
• Ivory City (1): grows in 5, warrior in 4, 0 culture.
• Salamanca (1): grows in 9, warrior in 9, 0 culture.

Military:

• 00 Archers, 2 in production
• 08 Warriors, 2 in production
• 02 Workers, 1 in production
• 00 Settlers, 1 in production
• 02 Slaves

Total units 10; Allowed units 24.

Summary

Nothing flashy. Barbarians were the focus of these turns, killing one worker, ransacking one city and being an overall headache. We may lose one unit to barbarians on the next turn, since that warrior is not fully healed.

Ragnar bullied us for 28 gold and has yet to spend it.

The Barracks of Barcelona have been built and are producing Archers.

Could not keep gpt at 0. Decided to have a +1 gpt and not a -1 gpt. If we want to get Literature in 5 turns, it is probably still possible. Leave that for team discussion.

Yellow 2 will be ready in a few turns. Think we can wait on Pink 2 for a while.

After Yellow 2 I think we need to begin to expand SW to block the English and the Vikings from coming our way. I wanted to send someone down in that direction to snoop around but was unable to do so. Need to explore around the southern parts of Lake Barcelona.

Note

Someone has turned on a feature that causes the cities to keep producing the last thing they made. Not sure this is good to do in a succession game. It is still on. I did not know how to turn it off.

The Glorious Spanish Empire, slightly expanded, 1250 BC:

And the save is here.

 

[nerovats]

Couple of questions:

why did madrid build a warrior
why is slider at 2.5.3
why are we building 2 warriors
why we only have 4 workers

what to research next
where to settle next
what to improve first
what should be production queue´s

BeefBayford-UP
Hawk Chieftain-On deck

 

[BeefBayford]

Got it, will play either today or tomorrow, some discussion is required before then though, lets have some thoughts from the team, and any lurkers about.

 

[azzaman333]

Couple of questions:

why we only have 4 workers

im pretty sure some barbs were eating our workers

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

I think we should switch Ivory City & Salamanca to Archers. Then have Madrid & Barcelona build workers after completing the Settler & Archer.
Do we have Mysticism? Does the Vikings or English have it?
If the Vikings or English have it, then we should trade Lit for that or IW.
We might want to research Math, or Philo next.

 

[nerovats]

BeefBayford please post what your plans are before playing. I don't agree with some suggestions made.

 

[BeefBayford]

I don't want to make Archers in towns that don't have Barracks, plus from Ivory city we can have a Settler quite soon, which I propose should settle towards the Vikings so that they don't get too much territory.
I think Lit is worth a lot more than Myst, although I'm not certain of this, so we can get a better price for Lit I think. Should we have a go at getting the Great Library? Could come in useful since we won't have to do our own research for a while, OTOH we don't have enough contacts just yet to make it very useful.

PS I won't be playing my turns until tomorrow evening.

 

[Whomp]

Three Tenets of Technology Trading:
1) Do you need it?
2) Can you afford it?
3) Can you make it profitable?

If a technology trade meets one of these criteria pass it by. If it meets two of the criteria then consider it. If it meets all three, then do it now. But if #1 makes the difference between victory or defeat then do it earlier.

And if you want to see smoke pour from Nerovats ears and flames from his nose, then buy a monopoly tech and have no sucker standing by to relieve you of the burden.

lurker's comment: I recommend each of you have a copy of this next to your turnlog when thinking of trades. Focus on your ultimate goal which is to launch the spaceship.
What builds get you there the fastest?
One more thing. When hunting barbs spears and archers are much more effective than warriors. In fact, when they run tandem they are near unbeatable. A barb horse attacking a combo will get an arrow on the bombard and an impaling from the spear.

 

[CommandoBob]

Couple of questions:

why did madrid build a warrior

Madrid built a warrior in 1500 BC for two main reasons: barb hunting if needed (two barbs on horses were on the map) and exploration. If the barbs went away then that warrior would try to explore the south shore of Lake Barcelona and then try to find Viking and English cities.

why is slider at 2.5.3

My bad. I did not see a pop-up that said that we now had ivory and people were happy. So when the road was connected to Ivory City my thought was to irrigate the road to help Ivory City grow. I completely missed the fact that we now had ivory and could lower luxuries.

why are we building 2 warriors

To have cheap units to explore the rest of this land.

why we only have 4 workers

We started this turnset with three workers, two bought, one Spanish. See the screenshot in Post #185 for their locations. Toledo grew a worker in 1450 BC, Seville a second one in 1425 BC. Barbs showed up around Seville in 1450 BC. Lost the Seville worker to barbs in 1425 BC.

what to research next

We are religious and commercial. Why not head to currency to build cheap marketplaces? When we have happier people we could increase our science.

where to settle next

(After we build Yellow 2)
We need to define our border to the south and southwest and clearly mark what is ours. Anything N of the Spanish line is Spain’s. Anything S of it will be Spain’s. We need to build Red Dot first followed by Blue Dot. Both have fresh water and can grow quickly. Then we need to build the Purple Dot and/or explore the darkness and find out if the Green ? is a good site or not. It could be a desert tile. Build these two cities and finally build on one of the Pink Dots. This gives us a very well defined border and allows us to develop city sites that are north of this line in our own time.

what to improve first

I would suggest connecting the second Ivory field. We have workers nearby, so no turns lost to get there. We will need it eventually to trade. And we have two nearby cities that could work that ivory field, if roaded and irrigated.
We can build Yellow 2 without building any new roads.
After that, we need to improve the tile south of Barcelona. Irrigate and road it and make it part of the highway to England.

what should be production queue´s

Madrid needs to make at least four more settlers. No other city can come close to matching Madrid’s speed in making settlers. Perhaps by the time the fourth settler is made another city can take over being our prime settler factory.
Barcelona needs to continue to produce Veteran units.
Seville can be our worker factory.
Toledo and Ivory City can not produce much quickly. For now, I would tend to keep them making cheap military units.
Salamanca can build galleys later. Right now, just warriors.

I am not pleased with our production options. I am also not ready to commit any of our cities to long term building projects (anything over 10 turns is long term to me at this point in the game.) My focus is to expand our borders and then build up our inner core.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

 

[nerovats]

We've already got enough warriors to do all exploring we want. If there's no iron they will be useless very quickly. Otherwise we could upgrade them to swords.

It's most often best to keep cities to their job, madrid should not have build the warrior but stick to settlers.

We need workers seville can be worker farm, that's good. Let the 2 cities north also build a worker, and we're ok on this in half a turnset. Then switch to barracks and get an army.

There's no use in connection the 2nd ivory for being a lux as we can't trade yet. It is one of the better tiles for ivory city, improve it but not for connection the ivory.

Aren't we forgetting about the incense?
Markets won't make people happier until we get our 3th lux.

What about science? Aim high to be able to sell/trade it for lower tier techs. Go on max or min not inbetween.

@BeefBayford, no Great Lib this game.

 

[BeefBayford]

All duly noted, I'll play my turns later today.

 

[BeefBayford]

I've played 5 turns so far but have decided to consult with the team before continuing. Here's the story so far:

Pre-Flight
Switched Salamanca and Ivory City to Workers, Toledo switched to Barracks. Economy set to 2.6.2, Lit in 6, +3gpt.
1) 1225BC
Vet warrior defeats barb horseman and disperses camp for 25 gold . Buy Iron Working from Ragnar for 150 gold. A source of iron appears near Ivory City! And another near Salamanca! BINGO!
IBT:
The barb galley sails in a bizarre triangular pattern and returns to the spot it started on . Put some walls around our palace too
2) 1200BC
Madrid; Settler->Warrior, this is for Military Police to cover whilst the other warrior escorts Settler towards SW. Two workers move to connect iron, the other heads down to Barca to irrigate. Vicky and Ragnar both have Map Making
3) 1175BC
Zzzz
4) 1150BC
Madrid; Warrior->Settler
Ivory City; Worker->Worker
Barcelona; Archer->Archer
Seville; Worker->Worker
Archer from Barca moves down towards Toledo to help out against approaching barbhorse.
IBT:
Barbhorse attacks something in the fog and dies.
5) 1125BC
Archer moves South to scout.
IBT:
Literature complete, switch to Philosophy?
6) 1100BC
Econ to 1.7.2.

This is where I saved and exited, due to two points I'd like to discuss:
1) What shall we research next and at what rate?
2) Here are the possible trades:
English; Map Making + 10gold for Lit
Vikings; Horseback Riding + 25gold for Lit.
Shall we take both of these trades? I'd say yes but maybe someone has an alternative opinion on both of these points. I'll complete my 10 turns when I have answers to these questions. Thanks guys.

 

[Whomp]

Beefbayford answer these questons. My answers are in spoilers.
1) Do you need it?

Spoiler :

Not really you may not even be capable of building horsemen now and galleys. Would it be better to see if they'll trade their techs to each other and bring the price down rather than give up a monopoly? You're still expaning and might consider a library before building the military. Are you going to war soon? I think not.

2) Can you afford it?

Spoiler :

Yeah but for a monopoly?

3) Can you make it profitable?

Spoiler :

Doesn't seem so since they both have mapmaking. So there's no a big advantage to just get HBR from one them. Maybe if one gets another tech then lit is a good trade?

My thinking is you can wait on these trade and do it later when you see the price coming down or the price going up for lit(more gold between them). You need more contacts to trade with. Philo is a possibility but CoL to philo is probably not now since Lit was the first tech. Why no curragh exploring?

 

[BeefBayford]

Good points Whomp thanks for posting
I didn't think you could build curraghs on PTW?

 

[Whomp]

Man, I should play a PTW game just to remind me how it's played. You are correct on the curragh.

Another point to consider is if you wait it will likely still be tradeable until one of them starts research on lit(and then you'll see their offer price come down). If you trade it then the Vikes and Brits don't need to research it and can get a start on something else. There will come a time when you want the tech pace to accelerate but I'd say when you have more contacts.