Never-Before-Seen Civs Poll

[Duckfromstatefarm]

Honestly I love to see some new civs of any kind. Out of all of them Palmyra/Syria would be on top of my list I'd love to see Zenobia lead them, also in the 7 picks I'd love to see the Trung sisters for Vietnam, some new Native American civs like the Navajo, Armenia with the Alternate leaders function (a king and Queen would be great), Also on board for any new Ancient civilizations.

Israel may be problematic however I'd say the way to fix it to avoid backlash is to give it an alternate name and Judea or Hebrews would be perfect. Out of the leaders For the Israeli/Hebrew civ, Soloman and David are on the top of my list to lead the civ while Bathsheba or Judge Deborah Would be my top two choices for the Female leaders but If I was to pick any others it would be out of David's or Soloman's pool of wives, or a wive of another ancient Israeli/Judah king.

 

[clapyourhands]

Don't look now, but I think Apache/Navajo/SW has just slid into third place...

Are we still pining after Pueblogate?

As a defined culture I think the SW tribes are the most ingrained into the American and international conscience of all the American regions, thanks to the Age of Gold, cowboy mythos, Indian wars, and the Western as a genre. They share this with the plains tribes, and I think the stereotypical Hollywood NA tribe blends the two together. The eastern tribes are usually relegated to colonial-era stories, where they manage to be even more nondescript as "savages", whether noble or not. That along with the Iroquois/Cree stretching over a lot of the northeast make SW groups very distinct as a culture.

 

[Returning Lurker]

Most of my choices are other, which doesn't bode well for me I suppose. Olmec, Nepal, Xhosa, and Boers would all great choices in my book. I know only 2 or 3 of these are realistic options (Choosing the Boers in this political climate would be like pressing a big red "Self Destruct" button for Firaxis) but in my perfect fantasy world those four would be some of my first choices along with Benin/Nigeria, Romania, Ireland (in a game WITHOUT Scotland), and Mughals (either as a standalone or as a replacement to stupid freaking meme lord Gandhi).

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

This is the same sort of non-argument that supporters of Georgia were making. Because Georgians exist and Georgia has a history, it is somehow an "exceptional" country? It might be more interesting than Armenia, but moreso than the Poland and Scythia civs it is so clearly a clone of? Moreso than Khazar? Why is Georgia the "golden age" civ when nearly every base civ had longer and more influential golden ages? It's not because Georgia is relevant. It's because Georgia is a popular civ that had practically nonexistent design space.

Vietnam has a history. So does Burma. And Siam. And the Philippines. And the Tamil. And the Champa. Not to mention the Khmer, which at one point almost totally controlled the region that is currently Vietnam. There is nothing that makes Vietnam stand out geographically or historically other than the fact that it has a high U.S. immigrant population, and shows up more often in U.S. history books as a point of controversy. It is a civ that exists more to pander to modern players than to actual historical relevancy.

It's a baity civ with even baitier leaders if we go by the Battle Royale mod. I'm sure it will be added, but it will get in on memetics, not merits.

That is what I mean by apologism. Making up excuse explanations to try to bolster an argument with poor foundations. I am not saying popularity isn't a decent reason to include as civ. But fans should stop quite literally making up history in an attempt to make these creative decisions seem more irrefutable than they actually are. If Firaxis actually had an agenda to only include influential civs, Georgia and Vietnam would be very low on the list.

Is this the first civ game you have ever played? The game is about representing different regions and cultures in the world in different eras, it is never about "which civs are the most influential?", because there is no objective answer to that question without biases. Just because you know nothing about culture or history of a civ does not mean that that country/civ does not have any influence at all. So basically everything you know about Vietnam is one war with the US, and that is it, which is kinda funny that you think every piece of history must somehow involve the US for it to "matter".

By the way, what was the "some point" that you mentioned when the Khmer controlled the region that is Vietnam? If you pay attention to the relationship between modern Cambodia and Vietnam, you know that Cambodia always asks Vietnam to return the Western part of Southern Vietnam, which was taken from the Khmer during multiple wars. Even right now, people whose ethnicity is Khmer is still living in that part of Vietnam. Please stop spewing "facts" like that just to float your boat.

 

[civplay]

Holy bleep! Theres really never been a Mughal Civ before? I guess they've always just been thrown in with India? Weird.

 

[Bosque]

Cherokee/Creek/Choctaw/etc.: The Choctaw are the best choice in my opinion. Not only are they descendants of the Mississippians but they have a great leader with Pushmataha.

Don't discount the Cherokee under Sequoyah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoyah
"In 1821 he completed his independent creation of a Cherokee syllabary, making reading and writing in Cherokee possible. This was one of the very few times in recorded history that a member of a pre-literate people created an original, effective writing system[1][4] (another example being Shong Lue Yang). After seeing its worth, the people of the Cherokee Nation rapidly began to use his syllabary and officially adopted it in 1825. Their literacy rate quickly surpassed that of surrounding European-American settlers.[1]"

 

[The Kingmaker]

Don't discount the Cherokee under Sequoyah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoyah
"In 1821 he completed his independent creation of a Cherokee syllabary, making reading and writing in Cherokee possible. This was one of the very few times in recorded history that a member of a pre-literate people created an original, effective writing system[1][4] (another example being Shong Lue Yang). After seeing its worth, the people of the Cherokee Nation rapidly began to use his syllabary and officially adopted it in 1825. Their literacy rate quickly surpassed that of surrounding European-American settlers.[1]"

I've advocated for this elsewhere, though perhaps not very persuasively.

I think it's a good choice, anyway.

 

[Martinus]

• "King" Queen - Jadwiga
• Confusingly similar name - Tomyris
  
• Faith UI: Poland/Scythia
• Civ Ability: Jadwiga agenda

What a boring part of the world, frankly. Just a lot of samey variations on backwater religion.

Poland doesn't have a faith UI. It has a gold UB.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Controversial opinion: Vietnam bores the hell out of me. Please explain to me what makes them so exciting to be topping off all these polls and more interesting than other empires from the same region (burmese, malay, thai)

(Though I will admit their have some pretty kick-ass archers in Age of Empires )

 

[clapyourhands]

Controversial opinion: Vietnam bores the hell out of me. Please explain to me what makes them so exciting to be topping off all these polls and more interesting than other empires from the same region (burmese, malay, thai)

(Though I will admit their have some pretty kick-ass archers in Age of Empires )

I won't say Vietnam's a better choice than any of the ones you listed, but it's definitely the most culturally distinct from the others as a Sinosphere culture. If SEA culture is a spectrum, then Siam is near Khmer, and Indonesia is near Malaysia, and all of them plus Burma are on the India side of the spectrum, while Vietnam is firmly in the other half.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I honestly don't expect to get anymore SEA Civs, but if we do I think it will be Vietnam just on the fact that it is culturally different than the other neighbors and it was also in consideration last game being beat out by Indonesia in the end.

 

[OzzyKP]

I'm very glad to see Hungary in the top 5 in the poll. They have always been on the top of my list of worthy civs that have never been included. Hungary was one of the largest nations in Europe for a good 600 years. It should absolutely be medieval Hungary, not the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. The leader should be Matthias Corvinus. Lots of cool things to pull for civ abilities. Matthias had the largest library in Europe (after the Vatican), and was the first place in Europe to embrace the Renaissance after Italy. He did a fair bit of conquering with the Black Army of Hungary too.

 

[ferretbacon]

Holy bleep! Theres really never been a Mughal Civ before? I guess they've always just been thrown in with India? Weird.

They've always made India a blobby lump. While they've moved away from blobbing Native Americans and, seemingly with Scotland, they might be doing the same with the Celts, India is repeatedly a blob civ that flies under the radar. I absolutely hope the Mughals make their debut in VI.

Don't discount the Cherokee under Sequoyah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoyah
"In 1821 he completed his independent creation of a Cherokee syllabary, making reading and writing in Cherokee possible. This was one of the very few times in recorded history that a member of a pre-literate people created an original, effective writing system[1][4] (another example being Shong Lue Yang). After seeing its worth, the people of the Cherokee Nation rapidly began to use his syllabary and officially adopted it in 1825. Their literacy rate quickly surpassed that of surrounding European-American settlers.[1]"

The Cherokee could be an out of the box scientific civ. Civilization is about history role-playing as much as alternative universe "what ifs?". Playing off of that sky-rocketing literacy rate, it would be fun to speculate that the Cherokee could have gone to the moon.

I'm very glad to see Hungary in the top 5 in the poll. They have always been on the top of my list of worthy civs that have never been included. Hungary was one of the largest nations in Europe for a good 600 years. It should absolutely be medieval Hungary, not the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. The leader should be Matthias Corvinus. Lots of cool things to pull for civ abilities. Matthias had the largest library in Europe (after the Vatican), and was the first place in Europe to embrace the Renaissance after Italy. He did a fair bit of conquering with the Black Army of Hungary too.

Matthias Corvinus is the exact reason I want Hungary in the game. I think Hungary is deserving as a civ, but it's Matthias as a leader that would excite me.

 

[krokobone]

I'm very glad to see Hungary in the top 5 in the poll. They have always been on the top of my list of worthy civs that have never been included. Hungary was one of the largest nations in Europe for a good 600 years. It should absolutely be medieval Hungary, not the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. The leader should be Matthias Corvinus. Lots of cool things to pull for civ abilities. Matthias had the largest library in Europe (after the Vatican), and was the first place in Europe to embrace the Renaissance after Italy. He did a fair bit of conquering with the Black Army of Hungary too.

There is also a fair amount of anecdotes connected to his name (he's kind of a folklore figure here in Hungary), so they could make up some very interesting leader ability for him.

 

[JamesFaith]

Bohemia.

But i wouldnť suggest most reknowned Czech king Charles IV. or warleader Jan Žižka, one of few never defeated generals, as leader. My favorite would be Jiří z Poděbrad (George of Poděbrady). You probably never heard about him yet his legacy is influencing litteraly every today state on the world.

Jiří was only nondynastic king in Czech history. He was elected unanimously by Czech noblemen - both protestant and catholic - after Hussites war, when previous Luxembourg dynasty died out and Czech throne was unsuccesfully claimed by two foreigner kings and to prevent war with catholic opposition and Pope, Jiří rather claimed that non of his childern will be king after him. And during his reign, in 1462, he start working on special concept of international alliance.

This alliance supossed to be based on multilateral treaty and open to all european states.
All members of this pact would be equal and stay soveireign.
Violence between member states was forbidden and disputes would be solved by international court.
Primary organs were to be a Council of Monarchs and an Assembly of Delegates from the various countries, with full powers to decide on the fate of the alliance.
Jiří also considered about options of one special leader and common currency.

This concept looks familiar, isn't it? Yes, work of Jiří z Poděbrad, refused during his lifetime, will later become one of main sources for creation of Leagues of Nations, United Nations and European Union yet nearly no one know his name beyond Czech borders.

So do you think this visionary diplomat deserves place between Civilization leaders?

 

[clapyourhands]

Niches we still haven't seen in Civ:

* Coastal/Insular Native American

* Silk Road/Central Asian (ie: not a gung-ho horse rush civ)

* Buddhist religious center (Tibet, Nepal, Burma; India as represented in Civ usually ends up with Hinduism)

* Spanish colonial

* Eastern/Southeastern European (we sort of have Poland here, at least)

* Pre-colonial Eastern/Southern African (Ethiopia as Axum would fit here)

 

[Thormodr]

Controversial opinion: Vietnam bores the hell out of me. Please explain to me what makes them so exciting to be topping off all these polls and more interesting than other empires from the same region (burmese, malay, thai)

(Though I will admit their have some pretty kick-ass archers in Age of Empires )

Well, I think they merit inclusion just for defeating 3 superpowers in the 20th century alone.

 

[ferretbacon]

Niches we still haven't seen in Civ:

* Coastal/Insular Native American

* Silk Road/Central Asian (ie: not a gung-ho horse rush civ)

* Buddhist religious center (Tibet, Nepal, Burma; India as represented in Civ usually ends up with Hinduism)

* Spanish colonial

* Eastern/Southeastern European (we sort of have Poland here, at least)

* Pre-colonial Eastern/Southern African (Ethiopia as Axum would fit here)

I'd want to see:

• Haida if they could somehow swing that without a strongly attested leader
  
• The Mughals (or Timurids)
  
• Nepal
• Mexico
  
• Hungary (or Wallachia/Romania simply for Vlad Tepes)
  
• Eh, I'd rather just have Ethiopia here with a nod to Axum

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

* Spanish colonial

Gran Colombia or we could just call it Colombia. As long as Simon Bolivar is the leader.

* Pre-colonial Eastern/Southern African (Ethiopia as Axum would fit here)

Yes please. We can still call it Ethiopia but led by an Axum ruler.

 

[Kheznik]

Niches we still haven't seen in Civ:

* Coastal/Insular Native American

* Silk Road/Central Asian (ie: not a gung-ho horse rush civ)

* Buddhist religious center (Tibet, Nepal, Burma; India as represented in Civ usually ends up with Hinduism)

* Spanish colonial

* Eastern/Southeastern European (we sort of have Poland here, at least)

* Pre-colonial Eastern/Southern African (Ethiopia as Axum would fit here)

There's a LOT of niches we haven't seen depending on how you want to spin it. We haven't seen a post-colonial African civ, or a civ that takes full advantage of the Renaissance, nor a civ with bonuses to flight, an Indian ocean civ, ancient West African civ, etc.

Buddhist religious center (Tibet, Nepal, Burma; India as represented in Civ usually ends up with Hinduism)

But this one we have seen: they're called the Khmer. Angkor was a centre of Buddhist teaching. Their leader is an actual Buddha clone. Can't really get any more Buddhist than that.

Pre-colonial Eastern/Southern African (Ethiopia as Axum would fit here)

Ethiopia in Civ IV was heavily geared towards pre-colonial Axum, with most of its city names being Axumite, including its capital-- Aksum.

Silk Road/Central Asian (ie: not a gung-ho horse rush civ)

Why shouldn't Mongolia count for this when its UA is literally about the Silk Road? Most Central Asian civs were about horses, so it's a given.