New Beta Version - August 16th (8-16)

[Deljade]

I don't like the mobile ranged unit change... they were already bad enough in rough terrain...
People say skirmishers are too good, I'm not seeing it myself. Cavalry already feels underwhelming though, with field works promotion and considering its tech tree placement and it's historical utility I just dont see why it should move as slow (or slower in some cases) as fusilers on forest and hills.

The rest I am eager to test though, especially growth fix. Will start a new game on this beta after I finish my current one.

 

[chicorbeef]

I don't like the mobile ranged unit change... they were already bad enough in rough terrain...
People say skirmishers are too good, I'm not seeing it myself. Cavalry already feels underwhelming though, with field works promotion and considering its tech tree placement and it's historical utility I just dont see why it should move as slow (or slower in some cases) as fusilers on forest and hills.

The rest I am eager to test though, especially growth fix. Will start a new game on this beta after I finish my current one.

Perhaps Cavalry and onwards can lose the rough terrain penalty, as it's the same time that Fusiliers get Field Works, Field Guns get Indirect Fire, Gatlings get Covering Fire, Landships lose the city penalty.

 

[ridjack]

QFT. I've been having this argument for 4 weeks now. Spain also blocks religious pressure the same as the Celts, but civs overlapping in mechanics is apparently something only stupid busybodies care about.

@Ziad, you can download my civ tweaks in mod repository; I reworked Spain's UA so it's not stacked on Celts/Carthage/Assyria.
This should be a big improvement. It's a big Mongol/Arabia/Hun nerf too, which I think is for the best. Thanks for the release.
The overrun change makes a very interesting decision for Sweden's Caroleans. Do you go down Drill, and maximize your March, or do you level Shock and try to maximize your Grenadier? I like this a lot.

I'm curious as to why you might think Genghis and Attila needed any nerfs at all, nevermind nerfs that essentially delete one of their UAs(Genghis) from the game? They're scary AIs to go up against in the early game, but they're definitely not dominant. And at least as of the previous patch(I have yet to play on this one), they were neutered by other changes anyway. Early game conquering is extremely unprofitable right now (to the point of being outright detrimental every time I've tried it, and it's generally been my go-to strategy).

I'll keep my comments on the Skirmisher changes out of this thread for the time being, until I've had a chance to actually digest them.

 

[pineappledan]

I'm curious as to why you might think Genghis and Attila needed any nerfs at all, nevermind nerfs that essentially delete one of their UAs(Genghis) from the game? They're scary AIs to go up against in the early game, but they're definitely not dominant. And at least as of the previous patch(I have yet to play on this one), they were neutered by other changes anyway. Early game conquering is extremely unprofitable right now (to the point of being outright detrimental every time I've tried it, and it's generally been my go-to strategy).

I dunno... I guess I'll need to actually play a game with them to know for sure, but I've generally found playing civs with unique ranged mounted units to be much easier. They were just very powerful and flexible units already. I actually haven't played one of those civs since the last 4 patches, so I havent tried again since the CS/RCS nerfs. Maybe this rough terrain penalty was overdoing it, but i generally agree with others that the mounted ranged line was a bit too much of a complete package up till now.

We'll have to see what its like in practice

 

[ridjack]

I dunno... I guess I'll need to actually play a game with them to know for sure, but I've generally found playing civs with unique ranged mounted units to be much easier. They were just very powerful and flexible units already. I actually haven't played one of those civs since the last 4 patches, so I havent tried again since the CS/RCS nerfs. Maybe this rough terrain penalty was overdoing it, but i generally agree with others that the mounted ranged line was a bit too much of a complete package up till now.

We'll have to see what its like in practice

Oh yes, in player hands those two civs are absolutely, hilariously devastating. I haven't seen this mentioned as an issue, and I wasn't taking it into consideration when I made that comment; I was strictly thinking of them as AIs.

I would be very surprised if either of Attila or Genghis AIs managed to be above the bottom fourth of civs in a game right now without insanely favorable terrain or some other huge advantage.

 

[Stalker0]

I am feeling the power of the new overrun, a lot more interesting and fun. Getting to run a melee unit into an area, and deal 10 damage to 3 units in the spot, and then follow it up with other strong flankers, now that is fun!

 

[chicorbeef]

So...will Woodsman will be a more relatively powerful promotion now, as now Skirmishers can't compete in the forest/jungle?

 

[pineappledan]

So...will Woodsman will be a more relatively powerful promotion now, as now Skirmishers can't compete in the forest/jungle?

Oh crap, I didn't even think of how this basically disables mounted ranged for Iroquois outside their own borders.

 

[Stalker0]

Happiness wise, I've been playing Japan through the late Renaissance at this point, and it does feel a little better, but just not quite there yet for authority play. Now I at least dance at the 50% mark every so often, but I just can't hold on to it, no matter how much I build. So I think one more tweak could do it, but yes please keep it small. The feeling is close, I don't think its need a lot more adjustment.

 

[DeAnno]

Anecdotally, I've seen the AI struggle a few times on dry, low food starts. It'll have fits getting to 4 pop, the first settler takes too long, everything snowballs for it a bit badly. It gets much worse if their farm is pillaged/worker is stolen/whatever too, so if you start adjacent to such an AI some early harass with your pathfinder can be very effective.

I'm not really sure if there's a fair way to address this, or if it's even a big deal, but I thought I'd mention it. Give the palace some food maybe?

 

[Bhawb]

Honestly, I haven't seen Attila not do horribly in a long time. In my recent game he was low-middle of the board most of the game, and right now he's doing an okay job of being my 2nd vassal, but he's really far behind. Granted this is in 4UC so don't take my word as gospel, but he did really poorly while being bordered by the two other weakest civs in this game (Portugal and Aztec).

 

[pineappledan]

Honestly, I haven't seen Attila not do horribly in a long time. In my recent game he was low-middle of the board most of the game, and right now he's doing an okay job of being my 2nd vassal, but he's really far behind. Granted this is in 4UC so don't take my word as gospel, but he did really poorly while being bordered by the two other weakest civs in this game (Portugal and Aztec).

My experience is Attila builds way too many units and sinks his economy. He falls behind all the time in my own games because I rarely see him with positive GPT

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Oh crap, I didn't even think of how this basically disables mounted ranged for Iroquois outside their own borders.

Playing as the Iroquois, Mounted Ranged are unusable. The Rough Terrain Penalty overrides the UA of being able use Forests/ Jungle as Roads.

 

[Stalker0]

Playing as the Iroquois, Mounted Ranged are unusable. The Rough Terrain Penalty overrides the UA of being able use Forests/ Jungle as Roads.

I would say this is unintended, as normal roads allow a skirmisher to travel without issue.

 

[Stalker0]

So continuing my Japan game, I may have spoken too soon about happiness. Going into Industrial, my happiness tanked. I went down into the 30s, and even low even to lose a city to rebellion (thankfully it went to my vassal, so no real harm done).

I stopped growth for a long time to stabilize. Now having built 8 public works (Turn 280), my happiness is back up to 60%. So PW is working...but it takes a LOT to do the job...too much imo.

 

[zeofig]

Spain was cooler before. A food bonus is useless or bad in some situations. But it's also really good with various strats built around it. It's OK for a civ to have bonuses that are sometimes weird or annoying, because it's only one civ. Now it's just Carthage 2.0.

 

[ridjack]

Spain is Carthage 2.0 because one piece of one her unique components was changed in a way that's similar to a piece from another Civ? Man, y'all are being really hyperbolic.

The 'on-settle yields' part of Spain's UA is just about her least important aspect past guaranteeing yourself a religion with all the Faith. You could make it JUST the Faith and Spain would be just fine at what she does. The gold is just a different way than Food to kick-start those cities.

Spain's entire kit revolves around her Conquistadors and her religion. Her religion is the main theme that ties everything else together. Whether you go for a spreader belief or a conqueror belief, she's guaranteed to be able to do more than any other civ with those particular beliefs as long as you can gain cities. Her Conquistadors enable this *hard*; they can settle new cities and they can conquer existing ones.

Carthage gets some gold when she settles a city herself. That's literally the only similarity. Chill.

 

[andersw]

I am feeling the power of the new overrun, a lot more interesting and fun. Getting to run a melee unit into an area, and deal 10 damage to 3 units in the spot, and then follow it up with other strong flankers, now that is fun!

This sounds scary, I wonder if Impi spear thrown also triggers the splash for a total of 20 dmg...

 

[CyberPhy]

Will this mod ever be compatible with Linux?

 

[vyyt]

Will this mod ever be compatible with Linux?

If my memory serves me right, @ryanmusante is running VP on Linux.