New Beta Version - February 1st (2/1)

[ElliotS]

That would mean no more of "we're unhappy 'cause poor -> we're poorer 'cause unhappy -> we're now even unhappier 'cause we're even poorer than before"

#communism #venezuela

 

[pza]

I 100% promise I’m not contagious.

G

This is version 3.2.1...

i'm definetly infected since at least early 2017.

 

[Aldebaran1997]

Well, I recommend anything that is the most comfortable for you. Ubuntu is a good place to begin. But, windows gaming is surely going to easier within it's native environment. I started by playing civ 5 (linux) and would have stayed with it if not for the fact that it is incompatible with DLL mods. And, I can't live with vanilla.

Indeed.

 

[Aldebaran1997]

After working with lots of distros, I'm currently recommending Manjaro.

Debian/Ubuntu/Mint is the same beast with different skins, works perfectly and have good compatibility. Ubuntu has made a place in terms of compatibility and it's very user friendly, so that's the default option for newcomers, along Mint.
Red Hat/ Suse are fine options too, they are supported by big companies, so that's what they use in the universities. They also have their testing and free versions, OpenSUSE / CentOS, where they try new stuff, but it's not recommended in productive environments.

What you need to understand about GNU/Linux, it's that the operating system is the same for all distributions, usually called the 'core'. Then you add a few programs: a file browser, a window manager, a notepad, a net manager, and you get a working Desktop Environment. There are a few fully integrated Desktop Environments (GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Unity). If you install a linux distribution and you dislike the Desktop Environment it delivers, you can easily install another one (but it might not be customized for this distribution == ugly). And then there are the rest of the applications you may install, like an office suite, a game, or an internet browser.

They are called distributions because they deliver those programs from a curated server, the same as you install applications from an app store in mobile phones. (You can install stuff from other sources, but it may contain viruses or other malware). So, such distributions need to maintain the programs they are delivering, to make sure they are all working and compatible. If they update the programs very often, there can be compatibility and stability issues, that's why most distributions have a release cicle. 6 months in the case of Ubuntu, 3 years in the case of Debian. Such distributions are very solid, but you need to upgrade the whole distro from time to time, because very old releases are no longer supported.

Then there are some distributions that follow a rolling release rule. As soon as there is a new version of a program, it's available in their repositories. Debian Testing and Arch go this path, but it makes the system unstable sometimes. And here is why I recommend Manjaro: it offers applications from Arch, already tested during a few days by the Arch community, in a 'delayed' rolling release model. There can be some unstability very rarely, but critical errors are usually found by Arch people first. And your programs are almost always the lattest version (but you can set some programs to not upgrade, if you prefer it more stable).

Actually, the biggest reason I'm installing Manjaro in all my relatives computers is a bit selfish. I don't need to go periodically to their houses to do any maintenance. If I install Windows to them, my relatives install junk, and all kind of malware in no time, despite any antivirus program. If I install Ubuntu, I need to go and upgrade it myself. If I install Debian, when a program is no longer supported (read Youtube support in older net browsers), then my assistance is required again. With Manjaro I had no such problems. I set a routine to update periodically and that's all (well, I had just one issue in the last couple of years where the graphical updater misbehaved).

I think you can make them all work with steam, and there's a MS windows emulator (Wine) you can use to try to run windows XP/7 stuff. I believe even VP can work, but I have a dedicated computer with Windows only for games, so I haven't tested it. Ryanmusante might know better.

Thanks for great advice! It seems that there are many things I have to learn to use GNU/Linux, though. I can't afford it yet but I definitely see that I'm gonna use Manjaro in the close future.
How much computer power is needed to use Windows emulator on Linux? Maybe I should consider change my laptop to use that.

 

[tu_79]

Thanks for great advice! It seems that there are many things I have to learn to use GNU/Linux, though. I can't afford it yet but I definitely see that I'm gonna use Manjaro in the close future.
How much computer power is needed to use Windows emulator on Linux? Maybe I should consider change my laptop to use that.

It depends on what programs you are going to emulate. Linux is not as efficient as Windows when doing DirectX stuff, which is designed specifically for Windows. Some programs don't see a drop in efficience, like uTorrent, memory usage is the same and cpu roughly the same. Other programs, that are more heavy on frameworks (.net) or some not well emulated dynamic libraries (dll), directly cannot be run, or do it sluggishly, or are just ugly. But I'd say that you only need a computer a 15-20% better for the emulation.
Virtualization is another different thing that can be used to run windows programs. You can run an entire operating system inside of another, it works much better but requires much much more resources. I've never managed to run Windows inside Ubuntu, but I bet it can be done.
If you have a good sized hard disk, then a thing I used to do is to have both systems installed in the same computer. When I wanted to play games (or that program that can't be made to work on linux), I launched Windows, when I wanted to work safely, launched linux. I had one independent disk partition for storing documents and videos. Windows is quite stable if you only install legit games and don't visit risky web pages, you can even have it without antiviruses. Now I have a small SSD disk in my PC, that is running Windows 7 exclusively, but I'm using Manjaro XFCE in the family laptop for pretty much everything but playing games. Oh, and my wife's running Ubuntu on her PC from work, using Mathlab and some modeling software for her research.
Ubuntu can be dual installed with Windows 8/10, I'm not so sure about Manjaro. Windows 8 uses a different system loader, UEFI, and it requires the distro to be registered (for a price) in Microsoft white list, so UEFI can be used to launch your linux distro. This means that not every linux distro can be dual installed with Windows right now.

Linux is reportedly worse than Windows managing laptop battery duration. Drivers are usually designed for Windows, normally you can find a community developed driver, or if lucky, an official driver for linux, but normally you are better not using brand new laptops for linux. Something with at least a couple of years in the market is pretty much going to work flawlessly. If you want to know if it can work well with your current laptop, prepare a 4Gb flash disk, make a live distro (there are usually some easy to follow guides), and try it without installing to your hard drive.

I know Civ V BNW works in linux. Just install the linux steam app, and it will download the linux version, no matter which one you purchased in Steam. VP is Windows only stuff. I don't know if it can be emulated. I've heard that it can, but I've never done it myself.

And I fear we're trying too much the patience of our vox populi fellows.

If you have more questions, we can talk aside.

 

[Gazebo]

Get a room you nerds.

G

 

[ryanmusante]

And I fear we're trying too much the patience of our vox populi fellows.

I'll start a separate thread outside. I'm surprised there isn't a linux subforum for civ.

 

[anip94]

i just noticed that in this version and the last while playing on Warlord the AI just keep stream rolling me in term of social policy counts. its usually i'm just one or two policy behind the top AI but now it seems im lagging behind in about 4-5 policy. i have 8 wonders (im in Industrial era now) and building culture generating building as soon as they become available. i do somehow managed to keep on par in term of science with top scoring AI. is this intentional or i just suck at this game? any guide for me to keep on pace them

 

[BiteInTheMark]

i just noticed that in this version and the last while playing on Warlord the AI just keep stream rolling me in term of social policy counts. its usually i'm just one or two policy behind the top AI but now it seems im lagging behind in about 4-5 policy. i have 8 wonders (im in Industrial era now) and building culture generating building as soon as they become available. i do somehow managed to keep on par in term of science with top scoring AI. is this intentional or i just suck at this game? any guide for me to keep on pace them

For some reason, the AI is now much better in accumulating culture than before.
Can you do me a favor? Save your game and send all your spies to the social leader, in his biggest cities. Check, if he has build everything and is now running culture process.

 

[anip94]

For some reason, the AI is now much better in accumulating culture than before.
Can you do me a favor? Save your game and send all your spies to the social leader, in his biggest cities. Check, if he has build everything and is now running culture process.

seems like he has build everything and at the moment is focusing on great person

 

[tu_79]

i just noticed that in this version and the last while playing on Warlord the AI just keep stream rolling me in term of social policy counts. its usually i'm just one or two policy behind the top AI but now it seems im lagging behind in about 4-5 policy. i have 8 wonders (im in Industrial era now) and building culture generating building as soon as they become available. i do somehow managed to keep on par in term of science with top scoring AI. is this intentional or i just suck at this game? any guide for me to keep on pace them

I think your main problem is being too focused on science, as if you were in vanilla. If you focus on science early game, it must be for some short/middle term benefit, like beelining to a powerful unit that you are going to abuse. Like beelining to cannons, building a bunch of them and conquering a few neighbouring cities with high defense. Otherwise you are wasting your hammers. Science is very easy to recover, just make acquaintance with every other civ and you'll research much faster the techs the others have already researched. Not to say, you can also steal/purchase techs, and having trade routes to some civ with more techs is going to grant you science back.

Culture is harder to recover. Trade routes bring some culture back, but it's not as efficient as with science. Your spies might steal great works (advanced action outside capitals), but that's hard too. I'm usually more culturally advanced than the AI (at my difficult level), now we are even. Has AI learnt to focus more on culture or are handicaps bonuses giving more culture? Don't know, but you should be able to beat the game at Warlord. In fact, the hardest part of the lower difficulties is dealing with barbarians.

As for pantheon, the best one is the one who gives you more chances to keep and spread your religion, because there are more religious beliefs, like Jesuit education and a few of follower beliefs that are going to grant more science overall, but this is not going to happen if you lose your religion, or get to enhance / reform too late. The other approach is warmongering, use the pantheon that gives more immediate yields, you probably won't found a religion for yourself, but you'll be strong enough to capture a holy city and become the usurper.

 

[Infixo]

Couple of versions ago some fixes and tweaks were made to building valuation functions that resulted in AI choosing what to build much, much wisely. E.g. they build monuments, fill up old infrastructure, etc. This could be one of reasons why AI is now so strong with internal infrastructure, giving human players pressure on happiness and culture.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Couple of versions ago some fixes and tweaks were made to building valuation functions that resulted in AI choosing what to build much, much wisely. E.g. they build monuments, fill up old infrastructure, etc. This could be one of reasons why AI is now so strong with internal infrastructure, giving human players pressure on happiness and culture.

The handicap benefits were designed for an AI that partially ignored its infrastructure. Many buildings were simply not built. And as a result, the AI had a disadvantage to humans. This should be balanced with the handicaps.
Now this misbehavior of the AI does not exist anymore. The AI gains benefits for behavior that no longer exists.
Instead, the AI is able to build anything faster than humans.

Not only is the AI able to run its cities more efficiently than the human being, who is often lagging behind in building, but is also able to increase culture and research through production. This also increases the mean value attached to the happiness system and makes it faster in terms of culture / research. For this she is also able to perform a diplomat spam that is impossible for humans.

The correction of the misconduct and the adjustments of the happiness system in recent versions may have caused the AI to have at least one, if not two levels of difficulty more difficult than before.

In my eyes, that only magnifies the benefits of warfare. Because without war and conquest a victory in the higher levels of difficulty will hardly be possible.
It is not without reason that most deity players play at epic speed in order to further extend their advantage in warfare.

 

[Aldebaran1997]

It depends on what programs you are going to emulate. Linux is not as efficient as Windows when doing DirectX stuff, which is designed specifically for Windows. Some programs don't see a drop in efficience, like uTorrent, memory usage is the same and cpu roughly the same. Other programs, that are more heavy on frameworks (.net) or some not well emulated dynamic libraries (dll), directly cannot be run, or do it sluggishly, or are just ugly. But I'd say that you only need a computer a 15-20% better for the emulation.
Virtualization is another different thing that can be used to run windows programs. You can run an entire operating system inside of another, it works much better but requires much much more resources. I've never managed to run Windows inside Ubuntu, but I bet it can be done.
If you have a good sized hard disk, then a thing I used to do is to have both systems installed in the same computer. When I wanted to play games (or that program that can't be made to work on linux), I launched Windows, when I wanted to work safely, launched linux. I had one independent disk partition for storing documents and videos. Windows is quite stable if you only install legit games and don't visit risky web pages, you can even have it without antiviruses. Now I have a small SSD disk in my PC, that is running Windows 7 exclusively, but I'm using Manjaro XFCE in the family laptop for pretty much everything but playing games. Oh, and my wife's running Ubuntu on her PC from work, using Mathlab and some modeling software for her research.
Ubuntu can be dual installed with Windows 8/10, I'm not so sure about Manjaro. Windows 8 uses a different system loader, UEFI, and it requires the distro to be registered (for a price) in Microsoft white list, so UEFI can be used to launch your linux distro. This means that not every linux distro can be dual installed with Windows right now.

Linux is reportedly worse than Windows managing laptop battery duration. Drivers are usually designed for Windows, normally you can find a community developed driver, or if lucky, an official driver for linux, but normally you are better not using brand new laptops for linux. Something with at least a couple of years in the market is pretty much going to work flawlessly. If you want to know if it can work well with your current laptop, prepare a 4Gb flash disk, make a live distro (there are usually some easy to follow guides), and try it without installing to your hard drive.

I know Civ V BNW works in linux. Just install the linux steam app, and it will download the linux version, no matter which one you purchased in Steam. VP is Windows only stuff. I don't know if it can be emulated. I've heard that it can, but I've never done it myself.

And I fear we're trying too much the patience of our vox populi fellows.

If you have more questions, we can talk aside.

You can even write books about these things, sir. Thank you so much!

 

[Txurce]

Couple of versions ago some fixes and tweaks were made to building valuation functions that resulted in AI choosing what to build much, much wisely. E.g. they build monuments, fill up old infrastructure, etc. This could be one of reasons why AI is now so strong with internal infrastructure, giving human players pressure on happiness and culture.

The effect was obvious to me the moment these changes were made, so my bet is that it's an important reason. I have no idea if there's a way to measure the effect. But assuming this is the case, a decision should probably be made as to whether the AI handicaps shuld be resultingly lowered, or whether VP is better served by leaving them where they are, and accepting that a re-evaluation of the level you play at is called for.

 

[IcyAngel]

The effect was obvious to me the moment these changes were made, so my bet is that it's an important reason. I have no idea if there's a way to measure the effect. But assuming this is the case, a decision should probably be made as to whether the AI handicaps shuld be resultingly lowered, or whether VP is better served by leaving them where they are, and accepting that a re-evaluation of the level you play at is called for.

I agree, however the problem with AI being overwhelmingly strong specifically at culture is that every game plays the same - you have to focus bigly on culture or you get way behind on policies and lose. That's not very fun.

As was said, there are no good comeback mechanics for policies (as opposed to science), so filling that gap could be a solution. And maybe nerf science from trade routes in exchange? Something like that.

 

[Txurce]

I agree, however the problem with AI being overwhelmingly strong specifically at culture is that every game plays the same - you have to focus bigly on culture or you get way behind on policies and lose. That's not very fun.

As was said, there are no good comeback mechanics for policies (as opposed to science), so filling that gap could be a solution. And maybe nerf science from trade routes in exchange? Something like that.

That would be my preference as well. What's reduced my game time lately is the sense that the game had become unbalanced in a way that wasn't being accounted for. It's no fun to play a good game (I certainly play bad ones, too) and find myself hopelessly behind in policies. Now at least I know I could play at a lower level if I have to, as a counter to what seems to have been identified as improved AI culture play.

 

[Gazebo]

Couple of versions ago some fixes and tweaks were made to building valuation functions that resulted in AI choosing what to build much, much wisely. E.g. they build monuments, fill up old infrastructure, etc. This could be one of reasons why AI is now so strong with internal infrastructure, giving human players pressure on happiness and culture.

Again, the bugs fixed had been very recently introduced.

The handicap benefits were designed for an AI that partially ignored its infrastructure. Many buildings were simply not built. And as a result, the AI had a disadvantage to humans. This should be balanced with the handicaps.
Now this misbehavior of the AI does not exist anymore. The AI gains benefits for behavior that no longer exists.
Instead, the AI is able to build anything faster than humans.

What? No, we did not design the AI handicaps around a fleeting bug that was fixed in less than a week. This myth keeps getting repeated. No collusion! Wait, I mean, no, we didn’t design the AI handicaps around a bug.

G

 

[Gazebo]

That would be my preference as well. What's reduced my game time lately is the sense that the game had become unbalanced in a way that wasn't being accounted for. It's no fun to play a good game (I certainly play bad ones, too) and find myself hopelessly behind in policies. Now at least I know I could play at a lower level if I have to, as a counter to what seems to have been identified as improved AI culture play.

Is that not the goal? If you want Deity challenge without the handicaps just drop a difficulty or two. You could even change the policy/belief selection from 3/2 to 1 if that’s your concern.

 

[Txurce]

Is that not the goal? If you want Deity challenge without the handicaps just drop a difficulty or two. You could even change the policy/belief selection from 3/2 to 1 if that’s your concern.

Yes, improved AI play all-around is the goal, and you are nailing it more and more. Whether the AI's handicaps are now off-kilter, given that improved culture play, is what some of us are asking. If they're not, then I'm fine dropping down a level (as I said in my last two posts). As of now, I'll play my next game on Emperor.