New Beta Version - February 1st (2/1)

[tu_79]

Is that not the goal? If you want Deity challenge without the handicaps just drop a difficulty or two. You could even change the policy/belief selection from 3/2 to 1 if that’s your concern.

If Deity players can still beat the game, then I have no shame to lower my difficulty level. This just means VP is a harder game that I can still enjoy at King difficulty.

But if they can't beat it, then difficulty should be looked at.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Is there really no way to work on this trade route times?
I can see it now and avoid it, but its still absolutly weird, one traderoute lasts for nearly a fifth of the full game length... while an other route only last not even a fourth of it.

Ok, wait, i can top that:

What? No, we did not design the AI handicaps around a fleeting bug that was fixed in less than a week. This myth keeps getting repeated. No collusion! Wait, I mean, no, we didn’t design the AI handicaps around a bug.

G

Unfortunatly I cant remember when the Bugfixes to AI building logic and when the exponential change of difficulty values came out.
If the difficulty change came first, we are still playing values based on the misbehavior of building logic.

I went now back to king difficulty, to have fun. If its your decision to make any difficulty above as hard as fudge for peaceful play, I have to life with that.

 

[Bridger]

I, too, noticed that some trade routes last a stupid long time. Not sure if that's by design? I don't think I'd want trade routes to ever last longer than 50 turns, otherwise it's a HUGE commitment whenever you decide to use one for a "temporary" benefit of buffing a new city with hammers, for instance. Isn't vanilla something like 20 turns at standard speed?

 

[tu_79]

I, too, noticed that some trade routes last a stupid long time. Not sure if that's by design? I don't think I'd want trade routes to ever last longer than 50 turns, otherwise it's a HUGE commitment whenever you decide to use one for a "temporary" benefit of buffing a new city with hammers, for instance. Isn't vanilla something like 20 turns at standard speed?

Hey, we were sending those trade routes before without knowing how long it will be. You send trade routes mostly for the yields, unless you want to focus on tourism and growth. Those longer routes are the first ones that get pillaged in case of war.

 

[Txurce]

If Deity players can still beat the game, then I have no shame to lower my difficulty level. This just means VP is a harder game that I can still enjoy at King difficulty.

But if they can't beat it, then difficulty should be looked at.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Just as you're okay having levels above you that you can't beat, there's nothing wrong with all players having one level they can't beat. That argument aside, how many Deity players winning now makes it okay? I think there's no way to quantify this.

 

[tu_79]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Just as you're okay having levels above you that you can't beat, there's nothing wrong with all players having one level they can't beat. That argument aside, how many Deity players winning now makes it okay? I think there's no way to quantify this.

Hmm, I see your point. If no one can beat deity, but there are a few people that can beat immortal, then you have a challenging game for pretty much every player in Earth. Still. They don't beat deity confidently 100% games, do they?

 

[DarkZero]

Hmm, I see your point. If no one can beat deity, but there are a few people that can beat immortal, then you have a challenging game for pretty much every player in Earth. Still. They don't beat deity confidently 100% games, do they?

I can say for certain its impossible to beat 100% of game son deity, at least without any cheating, all it takes is for a civ just as capable at your chosen victory condition to have spawn on a more defensive location than yourself.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I, too, noticed that some trade routes last a stupid long time. Not sure if that's by design? I don't think I'd want trade routes to ever last longer than 50 turns, otherwise it's a HUGE commitment whenever you decide to use one for a "temporary" benefit of buffing a new city with hammers, for instance. Isn't vanilla something like 20 turns at standard speed?

The normal time should be around 30 turns. Its based on this number. Infixio can tell you more about the mechanic.

Hey, we were sending those trade routes before without knowing how long it will be. You send trade routes mostly for the yields, unless you want to focus on tourism and growth. Those longer routes are the first ones that get pillaged in case of war.

First, its a major thing for ottoman UA.
Ive looked at my trade routes and its an average of 60 turns for international traderoutes. SIXTY! Internal trade routes are all around 25.
Trade route yields are locked at the start. As the game goes on, the yields for trade routes increases, but your trade unit gives you only the yields from the past. Relocate a traderoute in short time intervalls will give you always more yields than sticking the trade route all time with the old target.

I can say for certain its impossible to beat 100% of game son deity, at least without any cheating, all it takes is for a civ just as capable at your chosen victory condition to have spawn on a more defensive location than yourself.

Do you think its possible to win Deity without war/conquest?
Do you think all Victory conditions have the same chance to win in Deity?

 

[IcyAngel]

Do you think its possible to win Deity without war/conquest?
Do you think all Victory conditions have the same chance to win in Deity?

Of course! Some here like to play tall and peaceful.

Though to say; cultural is the quickest and thus likely the most common. Diplomatic can be though because the AI doesn't mind conquering your city-states (and it's impossible to defend them all late game). The AI competes well in science imo, so it's a risky victory condition. Domination rarely happens (takes too long), it generally ends in cultural/science victory.

 

[pza]

A way to destroy your own traderoutes would be neat.

 

[Stalker0]

As the game goes on, the yields for trade routes increases, but your trade unit gives you only the yields from the past.

Is this actually true?

 

[Infixo]

TR turns. I’ve explained in another thread how it is calculated and why it causes such big variations. The algorithm is an original one, a bit weird, but the whole idea is that you need to go there and back and do it it least twice. If target is far then well it takes time, because trade units move always with same speed (2 tiles per turn for land, 4 for sea).

 

[Infixo]

Trade route yields are locked at the start. As the game goes on, the yields for trade routes increases, but your trade unit gives you only the yields from the past

To avoid confusion. The yields are set for the TR in the moment it is created. The same TR when you send it again after it finishes will have new, updated yields. But always the same for the duration of the TR.

 

[Grabbl]

TR turns. I’ve explained in another thread how it is calculated and why it causes such big variations. The algorithm is an original one, a bit weird, but the whole idea is that you need to go there and back and do it it least twice. If target is far then well it takes time, because trade units move always with same speed (2 tiles per turn for land, 4 for sea).

Is there any way to increase movement speed in later eras? In my opinion, trade route duration should stay more or less the same throughout the game (duration in units of turns), so trade unit speed should scale like the distance increases (at least the one not provided from buildings).

 

[Stalker0]

trade units move always with same speed (2 tiles per turn for land, 4 for sea).

I believe in vanilla (correct me if I'm wrong) that value is affected by terrain/roads/railroads. So in theory if you have a railroad to the place your going it should be a lot quicker. Is that the case?

 

[BiteInTheMark]

TR turns. I’ve explained in another thread how it is calculated and why it causes such big variations. The algorithm is an original one, a bit weird, but the whole idea is that you need to go there and back and do it it least twice. If target is far then well it takes time, because trade units move always with same speed (2 tiles per turn for land, 4 for sea).

But.... I cant understand why it takes 110 turns to complete a 25 tiles distance route. 4 times the distance of 25 = 100, with a speed of 2, this leads to 50 turns. This is already above 30 turns, why is it increased even further?

 

[Infixo]

Is there any way to increase movement speed in later eras? In my opinion, trade route duration should stay more or less the same throughout the game (duration in units of turns), so trade unit speed should scale like the distance increases (at least the one not provided from buildings).

Idk, this is govern by a different module. Could be an easy tweak, could be some difficult rework. It’s vanilla behavior, so I would say it goes deep along with unit automation.
The formula that calculates how many circuits is required can be easily tweaked so there could be maybe 1 instead of 2.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

But.... I cant understand why it takes 110 turns to complete a 25 tiles distance route. 4 times the distance of 25 = 100, with a speed of 2, this leads to 50 turns. This is already above 30 turns, why is it increased even further?

What game speed are you on?

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Another strange thing.
Why is the AI able to perform an sabotage action and tech steal in ONE turn?
And how is it possible the AI can steal an tech from me in 4 turns after they get a spy, while it needs 5 turns to establish the spy????

 

[Gothic_Empire]

The formula that calculates how many circuits is required can be easily tweaked so there could be maybe 1 instead of 2.

The Ottomans cackle in anticipation.