New Beta Version - October 10th (10/10)

[Rafs]

the barbarian turns are the only thing that seems to take a bit longer than usual (like a small 10 secs loading when they "finish"), but I usually have no crashes (unless I take over half the map myself, then it will sometimes crash in late information eras and then I won't be able to load the game back). It's one of the reasons that made me stop Yet (not) Another Earth Map Pack, as this happened much earlier with all the AIs, the gigantic map size and barb abundance.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Yes, inquisitors are used for owned cities. I think that's their only purpose actually.

Can't wait for the new version of VP, it's shaping up to be even more glorious. Unbelievable work and effort by Mr. @Gazebo. Where can I donate?

They can only be used on own cities. But they can be otherwise used as spread blocker. An Inquisitor in own city denies the option to use prophets and missionaries against it.

 

[bigcat88]

Currently I am very happy with happiness system. Much better then before, the only problems I see, that every new era I must in every city specify manually specialist, to adjust my happiness.
But it MUCH better then all I see from all last 2 years

P.S.: maybe increasing slightly happiness from luxury will be a good idea, imho.

 

[azum4roll]

+36 pressure in a capital holy city is really low. I usually have more than +100 by Industrial with a reformed enhanced religion.

 

[Rafs]

+36 pressure in a capital holy city is really low. I usually have more than +100 by Industrial with a reformed enhanced religion.

Of course, it usually will depend on how you have built your cities and how close they are to each other, this time around they are very spread (highland script will force you to do this if you get "fortress" script, can't remember the name atm, as some spots are taken by mountain ranges), and me being on the upper part of the map means pressure is coming from very little cities that are close to the capital (in the screenshot you can't see it all that well, but all cities in a 30 tile radius, so 9 or so, are either my own religion or celts, so the pressure I get is just from trade routes in this case). Anyways, that part was more to illustrate how having 90% of the city with my own religion was still giving me 1 follower unhappiness, despite having rationalism, and everything religion related. On the border cities I'll barely be able to hang on my religion if I have very pushy neighbors (one of them is spain, the other is england but they spread their religion very aggressively to my other neighbors, and they have the 40% spreading power enhancer after the printing press, so even if they don't have buildings, I'm getting seriously pressured), and those cities do get 2 to 4 unhappiness from a lack of followers, and inquisitors will only solve the problem for a small amount of turns if you are getting severely pressured.

 

[Questdog]

@Gazebo Also, I think religious dissent ought to be toned down a bit. A typical scenario had a city of mine with around 25 population and 20 followers, with unhappiness from religious dissent 2-3 points. That sounds excessive, especially since often I spent a missionary charge and it didn't move the number of followers even by one.

I had the same here. I was the only religion on my continent, so there were no followers of any religion other than my own, but religious dissent was still causing quite a bit of unhappiness.

 

[crdvis16]

To chime in on the happiness debate- it's been a really long time since I've had any trouble managing happiness. I play a variety of playstyles and civs. Tall, wide, domination, whatever. I pick a different civ and different style every game. I play standard size, standard speed, immortal difficulty, with just VP and nothing else. I typically don't have to pay a ton of attention to happiness to be honest. Happiness specific buildings are usually low priority. I don't need to adjust specialists for happiness reasons. I purposely do not import luxuries unless for WLTKD. I can't remember a time where I had to abandon a game due to happiness. If anything, I'd say happiness is too easy to manage.

I'm still somewhat confused that people keep reporting happiness problems to be honest.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

To chime in on the happiness debate- it's been a really long time since I've had any trouble managing happiness. I play a variety of playstyles and civs. Tall, wide, domination, whatever. I pick a different civ and different style every game. I play standard size, standard speed with just VP and nothing else. I typically don't have to pay a ton of attention to happiness to be honest. Happiness specific buildings are usually low priority. I don't need to adjust specialists for happiness reasons. I purposely do not import luxuries unless for WLTKD. I can't remember a time where I had to abandon a game due to happiness. If anything, I'd say happiness is too easy to manage.

I'm still somewhat confused that people keep reporting happiness problems to be honest.

Same for me (Emperor/Immortal). Unless high WW due to prolonging war or nasty ideology pressure, usually I don't have to bother with it that much (which is a bit of a shame, I'd gladly like to, but it's personal taste).

Also on a quick sidenote I really like the naval promotions and place of naval units in general currently. They finally feel like real massive machines that go down hard (well at least melee ships with Dreadnought )

 

[Jarru]

There is something weird with war declaration.
Sweden asks me to go to war with Iroquois which have def pact with Songhai.
When I accept to join the war against Iroquois I'm ended up in war with Sweden...
https://imgur.com/a/UTMkGzp

 

[Rafs]

There is something weird with war declaration.
Sweden asks me to go to war with Iroquois which have def pact with Songhai.
When I accept to join the war against Iroquois I'm ended up in war with Sweden...
https://imgur.com/a/UTMkGzp

This happened to me before the hotfix, are you using hotfix?

 

[Bromar1]

Also, I think religious dissent ought to be toned down a bit. A typical scenario had a city of mine with around 25 population and 20 followers, with unhappiness from religious dissent 2-3 points. That sounds excessive, especially since often I spent a missionary charge and it didn't move the number of followers even by one.

I've noticed this too. 2 religious divisions in a 14 pop city with 10 following majority and 4 foreign following. Seems higher than before

 

[Gazebo]

I've noticed this too. 2 religious divisions in a 14 pop city with 10 following majority and 4 foreign following. Seems higher than before

It is - it was .34, now it is .5. Incremental bump to bring overall happiness down a bit.

G

 

[Bromar1]

It is - it was .34, now it is .5. Incremental bump to bring overall happiness down a bit.

G

Makes sense but it also has the unintended (or maybe intended?) side effect of draining tons of faith for Inquisitors

 

[Enginseer]

Makes sense but it also has the unintended (or maybe intended?) side effect of draining tons of faith for Inquisitors

Which should be a good thing since people usually don't care enough about religious strife that they stockpile faith for GP instead of using faith for other things.

 

[TwoPodRay]

As long as the AI has to do it too, it’s balanced.

 

[Stalker0]

To chime in on the happiness debate- it's been a really long time since I've had any trouble managing happiness. I play a variety of playstyles and civs. Tall, wide, domination, whatever. I pick a different civ and different style every game. I play standard size, standard speed, immortal difficulty, with just VP and nothing else. I typically don't have to pay a ton of attention to happiness to be honest. Happiness specific buildings are usually low priority. I don't need to adjust specialists for happiness reasons. I purposely do not import luxuries unless for WLTKD. I can't remember a time where I had to abandon a game due to happiness. If anything, I'd say happiness is too easy to manage.

I'm still somewhat confused that people keep reporting happiness problems to be honest.

Do you know in general how many non puppets you maintain and how big their populations get?

Most of the issue reported look to be when we hit large city or pop numbers.

 

[ryanmusante]

As long as the AI has to do it too, it’s balanced.

In my mind, if something isn't right or is broken, as long as the AI is affected, I'm satisfied. Equality in heaven or hell.

 

[crdvis16]

Do you know in general how many non puppets you maintain and how big their populations get?

Most of the issue reported look to be when we hit large city or pop numbers.

I change my playstyle with every game so there are times when I have some massive cities. I've played as India and the Aztec in recent memory and don't remember having any issues with happiness in either game.

Maybe it's a more general playstyle issue? When I play a tall/tradition game I tend to purposely grow my capital to be massive (sometimes even using food internal trade routes to pump it up) but I don't necessarily focus on growth in secondary cities. If I'm playing progress/wide then I'm generally more interested in production over food so over growing probably isn't going to happen.

The people that experience these big swings say that their cities are up to date in terms of infrastructure though, so it doesn't seem as if they aren't focusing enough on production. It's like they are playing some other version of the game.

Edit:

Or maybe for whatever reason the way I play I just generally have a large cushion in happiness so maybe I've had big swings in happiness but I just don't notice because I don't care if it goes from 50 to 20? Has anyone checked the examples to see if these swings only matter because the players are generally having happiness issues that they could avoid had they made better choices? If that's the case then one could argue that the real problem is their underlying happiness mistakes rather than the swings.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I change my playstyle with every game so there are times when I have some massive cities. I've played as India and the Aztec in recent memory and don't remember having any issues with happiness in either game.

Maybe it's a more general playstyle issue? When I play a tall/tradition game I tend to purposely grow my capital to be massive (sometimes even using food internal trade routes to pump it up) but I don't necessarily focus on growth in secondary cities. If I'm playing progress/wide then I'm generally more interested in production over food so over growing probably isn't going to happen.

The people that experience these big swings say that their cities are up to date in terms of infrastructure though, so it doesn't seem as if they aren't focusing enough on production. It's like they are playing some other version of the game.

Edit:

Or maybe for whatever reason the way I play I just generally have a large cushion in happiness so maybe I've had big swings in happiness but I just don't notice because I don't care if it goes from 50 to 20? Has anyone checked the examples to see if these swings only matter because the players are generally having happiness issues that they could avoid had they made better choices? If that's the case then one could argue that the real problem is their underlying happiness mistakes rather than the swings.

Sorry, but it sounds like every player which have/had big happiness jumps is a fool doing something wrong (so it doesn't seem as if they aren't focusing enough on production..... could argue that the real problem is their underlying happiness mistakes rather than the swings). If you have a save happiness buffer of 50+ and then fall down to -20, you cant argue, someone have done something wrong.
If you didnt believe those players, do yourself a favor, reinstall 9-25 patch, go to this thread,
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/general-happiness-issues.637416/page-2
and use the save game which can be downloaded there. Press the next turn button and see, how your happiness change in one turn, even nothing in your empire have changed.

 

[Stalker0]

Sorry, but it sounds like every player which have/had big happiness jumps is a fool doing something wrong

He is offering another datapoint, same as you. So far the majority of people (myself included) are not seeing big happiness problems right now. So that suggests either a problem doesn't exist, or that certain playstyles are falling prey to the issue.

Our first hypothesis is that its a "big city, many city" problem. Your play results support that. Crdvis is providing a counterpoint from his own play. That may suggest the problem is more specific. We need to hear all of these viewpoints in order to understand what problems exist.