New Buildings Discussion

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

Those are/were empty techs. I have been trying to fill them in before the release. Either by new buildings, moving existing buildings or adding bonuses from techs to existing buildings.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I was not commenting on anything before my post only on stuff after my post, and I specified filling empty techs as OK

I will have a whole bunch of Story buildings for Faustmouse to do after v34 is released.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

And some more ..

Hypocausts
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Central Heating
Req Buildings: -
Req Resources: Bricks AND (Wood OR Prime Timber OR Charcoal OR Coal)
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 80
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Electricity
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +1
• +1

---

Also please chnage the Terracotta Workshop to require Ornamentation tech instead of Aesthetics.

Thanks!

 

[Faustmouse]

I will do the new buildings tomorrow.

Here is another idea: An energy producing sidewalk! It generates electricity when someone steps on it. Might go with our TH era and gets even better once Electricity Mod is done.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yeah I saw that on an episode of Vsauce. That would be useful.

 

[Faustmouse]

Ok I added these buildings. The wonder needs a movie thou...

Nice to see that we managed to fill these empty techs before the release!

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

These are to be added AFTER the release.

Murder Holes
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Siege Warfare
Req Buildings: City Gatehouse OR Castle Gatehouse
Req Resources: Oil OR Tar OR Olive Oil OR Ghee Oil OR Fish Oil OR Whale Oil
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• Repels Attacker (like Bee Bombs)
• Adjacent Enemy Units will Receive 10% Damage Per Turn
• +20% Defense
• +10 Flammability
• +10 Air Pollution

---

Pitch Ditch
Button/Icon: Here
Req Tech: Ancient Ballistics
Req Buildings: -
Req Resources: Tar
Req City Size: -
Cost: 110
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Mine Warfare
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Adjacent Enemy Units will Receive 10% Damage Per Turn
• +20% Defense
• +10 Flammability
• +10 Air Pollution

---

Rolling Logs
Button/Icon: Here
Req Tech: Masonry
Req Buildings: Walls OR High Walls
Req Resources: Prime Timber
Req City Size: -
Cost: 30
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Adjacent Enemy Units will Receive 5% Damage Per Turn
• +10% Defense

---

Also if you (or anyone else) have better stats for these be my guess to suggest them.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

Here are some more ...

City Dry Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Siege Warfare
Req Buildings: High Walls
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

Castle Dry Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Engineering
Req Buildings: Castle OR Star Fort
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 130
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

City Water Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Canal Systems
Req Buildings: Aqueduct AND High Walls
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

Castle Water Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Engineering
Req Buildings: Aqueduct AND (Castle OR Star Fort)
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 130
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

City Spiked Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Siege Warfare
Req Buildings: High Walls
Req Resources: Wood OR Prime Timber OR Bamboo
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

Castle Spiked Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Engineering
Req Buildings: Castle OR Star Fort
Req Resources: Wood OR Prime Timber OR Bamboo
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 130
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

Please put all 9 of these in my Tower Mod. Also you will want to chnage the stats for the existing Moat. I am thinking it should become the Castle Water Moat since that's what its icon looks most like.

Thanks!

 

[Faustmouse]

I don't like that Moats give control over adjected tiles. I think in the realtistic siege thread we came to the conclusion that towers should give a ZoC. Moats would just help to prevent enemies from entering the city... Something like the "can't enter if defense is higher than X%".

As an idea: Rams and Siegetowers should ignore these minimum defense values. A Moat could prevent the city from getting attacked by rams and siegetowers.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

Should ALL towers give zone of control? Even the first ones like the Frontier Outpost?

You have my permission to tweak and edit the other buildings in the Tower Mod to fit the realtistic siege thread.

I just wanted to make sure all those types of building were in the same spot so its easy to find and adjust them as we need to.

 

[Faustmouse]

Yeah sure, I always thought it would be best to merge my buildings completely in your folders Or since the buildings interact so much with each other that you can't switch off one module anyways, we could merge them all into one big file to you just have to search that file and don't have to ask yourself: "Is building XY now a Science, an Education or an Disease building?" That's what I prefer: merge ALL buildings into the core. As long as only one will edit them, this should not be a problem.

Hmm... Well, I think it's totally strange that towers gives ZoC at all since a plot is HUGE. But it does't make any sense for Moats as well... Let me think about it ok? What kind of Defense structures we have now?

Wall -> Can't enter before Defense is reduced to X%
Towers -> Hit adjected units
Traps -> Hit attacking units
Moats -> Give ZoC
Fences -> additional Defense


We could remove the "can't enter before defense is reduced to X%" tag from walls, making them purely defense boosters. Then Moats could get that tag. Fences could slow down attacking units, so that they will lose all their movement points when attacking. That would be pretty cool actually
A Zoc is nice, I like it a lot, but it isn't very realistic at all. At least not before automatic weapons I think...

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yeah sure, I always thought it would be best to merge my buildings completely in your folders

Well going back the Tower Mod was not even mine originally. It had components from Afforess (Castle Mod) and generalstaff (Traps and Tower Mod) when I assimilated it into my HAND mod. If you have any other defensive buildings in your mod you may want to put them in the mod too. Because really my Hydro mod has become like a second core. The whole thing is practically non-optional now.

Or since the buildings interact so much with each other that you can't switch off one module anyways, we could merge them all into one big file to you just have to search that file and don't have to ask yourself: "Is building XY now a Science, an Education or an Disease building?" That's what I prefer: merge ALL buildings into the core. As long as only one will edit them, this should not be a problem.

Well the long term goal is to get them into the core. Some goes for units too.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think for towers that don't maintain a suppressive fire against adjacent units they should not provide a ZoC. But those that do should provide a ZoC.

Fences were meant I think to be added defense vs particular Combat Classes - not something easily bombarded until bombarding units can target specific buildings for destruction.

Moats as providing min defense doesn't seem quite right. Walls do because when destroyed the rubble still provides good defensive positions. Moats providing basic repel vs foot and riding units do seem good BUT repel is disabled unless a soon-to-be further developed option opens repel abilities back up to the game. So moats still need another effect for the core game. They could also work as fences do... +city defense VS particular unit combats, note-worthily foot and riding perhaps.

Wouldn't mind working in something along the lines you're talking about with fences but it's not toooo simple. They could also do small amounts of damage to attacking units.

Anyhow... there's my thoughts.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Seems to me that moats would do a really good job at stopping rams from getting to the wall.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Thus the repel - but without the coming option the repel wouldn't be effective. So I also suggest a defense modifier vs food and riding (which would include rams.)

 

[Faustmouse]

Well, Moats could also act like a river and give attacking units -strenght... At least those non-distant fighters.

If you design Moats especially versus rams, you have to make catapults much weaker to tear down city defenses I think...

 

[Thunderbrd]

I was pondering that too - about the river thing... I think that would take a new tag - and shouldn't allow the 'bridge' in the city to mess it up. But otherwise would act as a River modifier (ignorable by units that can normally ignore rivers already and would not STACK with already present river modifiers.)

Such a tag would need to wait til next cycle at least though.

Interestingly enough, we could give Alligators and Crocodiles a special building they can only build where a moat exists to add damage to attackers...

 

[Faustmouse]

Nice idea!
However, I'd love to see if Fences could "slow down" units. This would make the "can attack multiple times per turn" units and seems perfect for a defensive building.

 

[Yudishtira]

If it doesn't contain water, it's not a Moat. Please refer to a 'dry moat' as a Fossa (Latin) or Ditch. (Apparently that is the technical term in English...)

 

[Hydromancerx]

If it doesn't contain water, it's not a Moat. Please refer to a 'dry moat' as a Fossa (Latin) or Ditch. (Apparently that is the technical term in English...)

From wikipedia ...

A moat is a deep, broad ditch, either dry or filled with water, that surrounds a castle, other building or town, historically to provide it with a preliminary line of defence. In some places moats evolved into more extensive water defences, including natural or artificial lakes, dams and sluices. In later periods the moat or water defences may be largely ornamental.

So yeah it can be a "Dry Moat".