New Buildings Discussion

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Yudishtira is right, in English a moat contains water. Might not be the meaning in American-English.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

And some more ..

Sea Tree
Button/Icon: Here
Req Tech: Ecological Engineering
Req Buildings: Ecoscraper AND Coastal Preserve
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 13
Req Coastal City: Yes
Cost: 3450
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: -
Replaced By: -

• -25 Water Pollution
• -25 Air Pollution

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This was also a cool idea.

Thanks!

 

[Faustmouse]

Instead of giving them -Pollution (or additional), we could use some buildings that increase the productivity of water tiles. Or, as I suggested, we allow workboats to build fihingboats everywhere and let spawn fishes and such randomly in it.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Instead of giving them -Pollution (or additional), we could use some buildings that increase the productivity of water tiles. Or, as I suggested, we allow workboats to build fihingboats everywhere and let spawn fishes and such randomly in it.

Well it would be nice to have both the building and the improvement. The improvement could have a random chance of spawning a sea resource. Similar to farms spawning crops and mines spawning minerals.

For the building itself I wanted to keep it simple. The improvement can increase to productivity of the tile.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

I have been wanting these for awhile, but kept forgetting ...

National Alcohol Prohibition
Button/Icon: (Use Same Icon as the Free Building)
Req Tech: Women's Suffrage
Req Buildings: Supreme Court
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 13
Cost: -1 (Only Buildable by Judge)
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: -
Replaced By: -

• Free Ordinance (Alcohol Prohibition) in every City

Notes: Since there is only 1 Supreme Court we don't need to make this (or the others below) a National Wonder and it can save the National Wonder slot in the city for other National Wonders.

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National Drug Prohibition
Button/Icon: (Use Same Icon as the Free Building)
Req Tech: Counterculture
Req Buildings: Supreme Court
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 13
Cost: -1 (Only Buildable by Judge)
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: -
Replaced By: -

• Free Ordinance (Drug Prohibition) in every City

---

National Smoking Prohibition
Button/Icon: (Use Same Icon as the Free Building)
Req Tech: Counterculture
Req Buildings: Supreme Court
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 13
Cost: -1 (Only Buildable by Judge)
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: -
Replaced By: -

• Free Ordinance (Smoking Prohibition) in every City

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National Prostitution Ban
Button/Icon: (Use Same Icon as the Free Building)
Req Tech: Justprudence
Req Buildings: Supreme Court
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 13
Cost: -1 (Only Buildable by Judge)
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: -
Replaced By: -

• Free Ordinance (Prostitution Ban) in every City

---

National Gambling Ban
Button/Icon: (Use Same Icon as the Free Building)
Req Tech: Legalized Gambling
Req Buildings: Supreme Court
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 13
Cost: -1 (Only Buildable by Judge)
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: -
Replaced By: -

• Free Ordinance (Gambling Ban) in every City

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Also please put them in my Ordinance Mod folder. And add them to the list of buildings a Judge can make.

Thanks!

 

[Faustmouse]

Uhm... I always thought that Ordinances would be national buildings! Isn't that correct?
This ban thingy is something that could use more love. For example, Alcohol prohibiton could give +5% but also be a prereq for Crime - Alcohol Smuggle. I for myself never build these prohibition wonders since they don't have anything positive IMO.

Good idea about the Improvement! Now we only need Graphics

 

[Hydromancerx]

Uhm... I always thought that Ordinances would be national buildings! Isn't that correct?
This ban thingy is something that could use more love. For example, Alcohol prohibiton could give +5% but also be a prereq for Crime - Alcohol Smuggle. I for myself never build these prohibition wonders since they don't have anything positive IMO.

1. Nope, since they depend upon National Wonders they did not need to be national wonders themselves. It saves slots for those of us who still play without Unlimited Wonders on. Note that there are other Ordinances I already listed but they require National buildings like Police Academy, Department of Waste, Department of Water, etc. So you could only build them once anyways. The drug, alcohol and prostitution ones did not have a central building requirement which is why they needed a National Act. Note if you just never build the National Act then one can have some cities that its legal in and some that its not. Much like how some States in the US have some things legal, while others do not. Ex. Legalized Gambling in Nevada.

2. Alcohol Prohibition actually unlocks "Speak Easys" buildings.

3. Some of them have an indirect positive effect in the form of less from the buildings it replaces. But I agree that we should go over some positive effects in those Ordinances.

Oh and the non-drug/alcohol/ prostitution do give some positives such as Clean Air Act helps reduce air pollution, Neighborhood Watch helps reduce Crime, Smoke Detector Ordinance helps reduce Flammability, etc.

 

[Faustmouse]

1. Ah ok, I only build the Clean Air Act and such, that have a direct visible positive effect. So I assumed they all work like this.

I will do these buildings probably later today.

 

[Faustmouse]

Can you send me the buttons for the non-national ordinances that are given for free with these new buildings?

Oooouups, I just saw you want the same Icon as for the free building. Nevermind then. Just give me the path for these.

Again, nevermind, found them

Edit:

Ok, finished these. Do you want me to upload them now or after the freeze? The defense buildings are still missing, mainly because I'm not too happy with their stats (suggestions below).

 

[Faustmouse]

My suggestions:

Spoiler :

@Faustmouse

These are to be added AFTER the release.

Murder Holes
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Siege Warfare
Req Buildings: City Gatehouse OR Castle Gatehouse
Req Resources: Oil OR Tar OR Olive Oil OR Ghee Oil OR Fish Oil OR Whale Oil
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• Repels Attacker (like Bee Bombs)
• Adjacent Enemy Units will Receive 10% Damage Per Turn
  Better if they damage only attacking units like traps do.
• +20% Defense
  Only against H2H Combat Range: Gatecrusher and Melee.
• +10 Flammability
• +10 Air Pollution
  Too much, the city is not permanently under attack... Make it 1 or 2 at most. Flammability is also too high.

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Pitch Ditch
Button/Icon: Here
Req Tech: Ancient Ballistics
Req Buildings: -
Req Resources: Tar
Req City Size: -
Cost: 110
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Mine Warfare
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Adjacent Enemy Units will Receive 10% Damage Per Turn
• +20% Defense
  Don't really adds defense, just hurts your attackers.
• +10 Flammability
• +10 Air Pollution
  Same as above: Air pollution is only really appearing when the city is under attack. As for spontanous ignition I think the Flammability can stay.

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Rolling Logs
Button/Icon: Here
Req Tech: Masonry
Req Buildings: Walls OR High Walls
Req Resources: Prime Timber
Req City Size: -
Cost: 30
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Adjacent Enemy Units will Receive 5% Damage Per Turn
  Probably should also repel and damage attacking units.
• +10% Defense
  Don't really adds defense, just hurts your attackers.

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Also if you (or anyone else) have better stats for these be my guess to suggest them.

And do we really need 6 (!) Moats? Since they don't replace each other, your city can have all 6 of them together. Moats should be modified that they don't give a ZoC but enhance the resistance against Gate-Crushers. And I think Catapults should have a Chance to destroy a building in the city they are attacking while gatecrushers don't, so gatecrushers become more usefull when you want to conquer a city rather then destroy it.

 

[Thunderbrd]

My suggestions:



And do we really need 6 (!) Moats? Since they don't replace each other, your city can have all 6 of them together. Moats should be modified that they don't give a ZoC but enhance the resistance against Gate-Crushers. And I think Catapults should have a Chance to destroy a building in the city they are attacking while gatecrushers don't, so gatecrushers become more usefull when you want to conquer a city rather then destroy it.

I agree with all suggestions you made in the spoiler except this:

Only against H2H Combat Range: Gatecrusher and Melee.

Because I'll handle that differently eventually but for now it's ok as is.

Agreed on the point about moats... sorta. They should be an upgrade chain!

The catapults... good idea but it'll take some work.

 

[Faustmouse]

The catapults... good idea but it'll take some work.

In general the whole buildings destroyed by conquering mechanism could use some work. When you enter a PH city with only some macemen that was defended by a clubman, I think it won't cause too much damage. But when you fight an epic battle with 100+ tanks, Mechanized Infantry as defenders, using Bombers and Missiles to weaken the enemies - then the city will suffer a lot more damage!

 

[Thunderbrd]

In general the whole buildings destroyed by conquering mechanism could use some work. When you enter a PH city with only some macemen that was defended by a clubman, I think it won't cause too much damage. But when you fight an epic battle with 100+ tanks, Mechanized Infantry as defenders, using Bombers and Missiles to weaken the enemies - then the city will suffer a lot more damage!

Strongly agree but...

I'd want to first implement the HP and Integrity on buildings as I detail during the conversation here.

Then I'd be able to develop a structural collateral damage mechanism that would encompass the kind of damage to buildings you're talking about there.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ok, finished these. Do you want me to upload them now or after the freeze? The defense buildings are still missing, mainly because I'm not too happy with their stats (suggestions below).

Since the release has been pushed back, before the release.

Too much, the city is not permanently under attack... Make it 1 or 2 at most. Flammability is also too high.

Ok reduce to 2 of air pollution but flammability should still be high since it would be easy to catch the flammable liquids on fire even when they are not being attacked.

Better if they damage only attacking units like traps do.

Fair enough.

Only against H2H Combat Range: Gatecrusher and Melee.

What about dog or hunter or other such unconventional units that would be stupid to attack the city but still are hand to hand?

Don't really adds defense, just hurts your attackers.

Well its like having a tar moat.

Same as above: Air pollution is only really appearing when the city is under attack. As for spontanous ignition I think the Flammability can stay.

Fair enough, lower the air pollution but keep the flammability.

Probably should also repel and damage attacking units.

Ok.

Don't really adds defense, just hurts your attackers.

I am ok with that if it gets repel.

And do we really need 6 (!) Moats? Since they don't replace each other, your city can have all 6 of them together. Moats should be modified that they don't give a ZoC but enhance the resistance against Gate-Crushers. And I think Catapults should have a Chance to destroy a building in the city they are attacking while gatecrushers don't, so gatecrushers become more usefull when you want to conquer a city rather then destroy it.

Yes. barbecue they are not improvements on each other they are their own separate things. Plus we have both city gates and castle gates, I see no reason why we cannot have city moats and castle moats. Plus they all add +2 so givbing it to your city is not good for it health wise.

Agreed on the point about moats... sorta. They should be an upgrade chain!

But they are not upgrades, it like saying an Orange is an upgrade to an Apple. They don't work that way. Dry, Water and Spiked Moats all work better for different things. Likewise having a castle moat doesn't mean that it should replaced the city moat.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

But they are not upgrades, it like saying an Orange is an upgrade to an Apple. They don't work that way. Dry, Water and Spiked Moats all work better for different things. Likewise having a castle moat doesn't mean that it should replaced the city moat.

You could make it so that you can only have one type of city moat.

 

[Hydromancerx]

What's wrong with having all of the types moats in one city if you want to make the city very protected?

 

[Faustmouse]

Nothing wrong about this. It's just wrong that they give ZoC

But then, what is wrong about having a Shoe Maker in your city after Industrialism? They don't say: "Oh damn... they could build a factory as well, I will stop my buisness!" Even nowadays there are some shoemakers around and their shoes are among the most expensive you can have.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

What's wrong with having all of the types moats in one city if you want to make the city very protected?

It is boring and tedious.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

Ok I have an idea. I will just hve us combine each set of 3 into one. Please do them like this ...

City Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Siege Warfare
Req Buildings: Irrigation Canals AND High Walls
Req Resources: Wood OR Prime Timber OR Bamboo
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• +30% Defense

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Castle Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Engineering
Req Buildings: Aqueduct AND (Castle OR Star Fort)
Req Resources: Wood OR Prime Timber OR Bamboo
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 130
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• +30% Defense

Notes: Use Old Moat Tag.

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[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

Please move Soylent Green Factory and Soylent Green resource to Simulated Reality tech.

Thanks!